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[citation needed]

Old 09-14-10, 04:24 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Guarddog View Post
In response to how Cheney was involved in NORAD:

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/fre...ify_case.shtml
--------------------------
On May 8, 2001 - four months prior to 9/11 - the president placed Dick Cheney in charge of "[A]ll federal programs dealing with weapons of mass destruction consequence management within the Departments of Defense, Health and Human Services, Justice, and Energy, the Environmental Protection Agency, and other federal agencies" This included all "training and planning" which needed to be "seamlessly integrated, harmonious and comprehensive" in order to "maximize effectiveness." This mandate created the Office of National Preparedness in FEMA, overseen by Dick Cheney. 15

Dick Cheney was running a completely separate chain of Command & Control via the Secret Service, assuring the paralysis of Air Force response on 9/11. The Secret Service has the technology to see the same radar screens the FAA sees in real time. They also have the legal authority and technological capability to take supreme command in cases of national emergency. Dick Cheney was the acting Commander in Chief on 9/11.

Dick Cheney was placed directly in charge of managing the seamless integration of all training exercises throughout the entire federal government and all military agencies. On 9/11 Cheney oversaw multiple war games and terror drills, including several exercises of NORAD, the Air Force agency whose mandate is to "watch the sky."

The war games & terror drills played a critical role in ensuring no Air Force fighter jocks - who had trained their entire lives for this moment - would be able to prevent the attacks from succeeding. These exercises were under Dick Cheney's management.

--------------------
No, you can't quote that as a source because it is a mixture of fact and conjecture. Paragraph one is true, I actually provided you a source for that if you go back and look. Feel free to use it! Paragraphs 2, 3 & 4 are made up. They list multiple things that can be easily checked. If the websites that invented this tale didn't bother doing any research, at least you can do is try it yourself.
Old 09-14-10, 04:24 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
Whoa. That building is bigger than I thought.
Maybe the president was just scrambling eggs.
Old 09-14-10, 04:40 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Oh God... ok, one paragraph at a time then...

Dick Cheney was running a completely separate chain of Command & Control via the Secret Service, assuring the paralysis of Air Force response on 9/11. Chain of Command is monitored at all times, easy to prove if it exists. Go for it.

The Secret Service has the technology to see the same radar screens the FAA sees in real time. Prove this fact. The FAA has many employees, the CIA has many employees, the US has many regulatory employees. Easy to prove is true.

They also have the legal authority and technological capability to take supreme command in cases of national emergency. Legal is easy enough if you can prove the US was in a "state of emergency." That's a real and very legal term, pretty easy to find out when that was done.

Dick Cheney was the acting Commander in Chief on 9/11. That sort of event happens exceedingly rarely, but is a pretty documented event that happens for dozens of different reasons. Prove he was our Commander in Chief at that time.
Old 09-14-10, 05:08 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Guarddog View Post
And to Navinabob on fires in steel structures: http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/02/310898.shtml
The Concrete Alliance would like to discuss your use of Madrid's Windsor Tower for your "proof":

Old 09-14-10, 05:30 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

So if they did all this, why didn't they make the payout something worthy of their crime? Starting an unrelated war a year and a half later (for reasons that could have been trumped up just as easily without 9/11) and some airport security/harassment doesn't seem to be worth the effort they would have put into a plot like this, let alone the cost. Why didn't they declare martial law and suspend the Constitution?
Old 09-14-10, 05:35 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

I don't see Cheney on the NORAD Operations board... odd.

http://www.911myths.com/images/6/6e/...pes-Layout.pdf

I yet to listen to the NORAD tapes as I'm at work, but I look forward to doing so after work as they've been made public record. http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Stand_Down
Old 09-14-10, 05:38 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by crazyronin View Post
The Concrete Alliance would like to discuss your use of Madrid's Windsor Tower for your "proof":
Old 09-14-10, 06:19 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Dick Cheney was running a completely separate chain of Command & Control via the Secret Service, assuring the paralysis of Air Force response on 9/11. Chain of Command is monitored at all times, easy to prove if it exists. Go for it.

Brigadier General David Wherley, the commander of the District of Columbia Air National Guard (DCANG), speaks to a Secret Service agent over the phone, but declines the agent’s request to launch DCANG fighter jets without first receiving an order to do so from someone more senior. [SPENCER, 2008, PP. 184]
Wherley Takes over Call - Wherley has just arrived at the headquarters of the DCANG’s 121st Fighter Squadron at Andrews Air Force Base, near Washington (see (Shortly After 9:39 a.m.) September 11, 2001). At the operations desk there, Major Daniel Caine passed Wherley a phone he was talking over, before heading off to prepare to get airborne. [FILSON, 2003, PP. 78; VOGEL, 2007, PP. 445]
Caller Wants Jets over Washington - Wherley finds that the caller Caine was speaking with is from the Secret Service. They want the DCANG to put up a combat air patrol (CAP) over Washington. But, according to author Lynn Spencer: “Wherley knows that there has never been a CAP anywhere over this country, much less over Washington. Such a request—coming from someone not even in the military—is unheard of.” Wherley understands the power of the Secret Service, and knows that with its responsibility to protect the president it clearly has some authority over other agencies, including the military. “But still, such an order from a Secret Service agent seems rather far-reaching.” He therefore tells the caller, “I would feel more comfortable receiving such an order from someone higher in the chain of command, preferably in the military.”
Wherley Told to Call 'Operations Center' - According to Spencer, the agent gives Wherley “a phone number and tells him to call over to the White House Operations Center, where Vice President [Dick] Cheney has been ushered.” [SPENCER, 2008, PP. 184] Presumably the “Operations Center” is the Presidential Emergency Operations Center (PEOC) below the White House, where Cheney is evacuated to by his Secret Service agents (see (9:10 a.m.) September 11, 2001). [ABC NEWS, 9/14/2002; 9/11 COMMISSION, 7/24/2004, PP. 39-40] However, other accounts, including Wherley’s interview with the 9/11 Commission, will state that Wherley subsequently calls someone at the Secret Service’s White House Joint Operations Center (JOC), not the PEOC (see (9:45 a.m.) September 11, 2001). [FILSON, 2003, PP. 79; 9/11 COMMISSION, 8/28/2003]


The Secret Service has the technology to see the same radar screens the FAA sees in real time. Prove this fact. The FAA has many employees, the CIA has many employees, the US has many regulatory employees. Easy to prove is true.

It is reported that the US Secret Service is using an “air surveillance system” called Tigerwall. This serves to “ensure enhanced physical security at a high-value asset location by providing early warning of airborne threats.” Tigerwall “provides the Secret Service with a geographic display of aircraft activity and provides security personnel long-range camera systems to classify and identify aircraft. Sensor data from several sources are fused to provide a unified sensor display.” [US DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, 2000; US DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY, 9/2000, PP. 28 ]

As well as Tigerwall, the Secret Service appears to have other air surveillance capabilities. Counterterrorism “tsar” Richard Clarke will describe that on 9/11, the Secret Service had “a system that allowed them to see what FAA’s radar was seeing.” [CLARKE, 2004, PP. 7]

Barbara Riggs, a future deputy director of the Secret Service who is in its Washington, DC headquarters on 9/11, will describe the Secret Service “monitoring radar” during the attacks. [PCCW NEWSLETTER, 3/2006; STAR-GAZETTE (ELMIRA), 6/5/2006]

Furthermore, since 1974 the Secret Service operations center has possessed a special communications line from the control tower of Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport. This hotline allows air traffic controllers monitoring local radar to inform agents at the White House of any planes that are off course or appear to be on a “threatening vector.” [TIME, 9/26/1994]


They also have the legal authority and technological capability to take supreme command in cases of national emergency. Legal is easy enough if you can prove the US was in a "state of emergency." That's a real and very legal term, pretty easy to find out when that was done.

Once an event has been designated as an NSSE, the FBI becomes the lead agency for crisis management, FEMA becomes lead agency for consequence management, and the Secret Service becomes lead agency for designing and implementing security operations. [US DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, 8/3/2001; US DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY, 7/9/2003; CSO


Dick Cheney was the acting Commander in Chief on 9/11. That sort of event happens exceedingly rarely, but is a pretty documented event that happens for dozens of different reasons. Prove he was our Commander in Chief at that time.

If there was any power to shoot down or not shoot down planes it was in PEOC where Cheney took command. Whether you call it commander in chief or not, Cheney was definitely assuming the role Bush should have been in control of but for some reason Cheney was the one rushed to a command post by the Secret Service, not Bush.
Old 09-14-10, 06:23 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

But how does this tie in with the Eiffel Tower bomb threat?!?
Old 09-14-10, 06:31 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Guarddog View Post
Dick Cheney was running a completely separate chain of Command & Control via the Secret Service, assuring the paralysis of Air Force response on 9/11. Chain of Command is monitored at all times, easy to prove if it exists. Go for it.

Brigadier General David Wherley, the commander of the District of Columbia Air National Guard (DCANG), speaks to a Secret Service agent over the phone, but declines the agent’s request to launch DCANG fighter jets without first receiving an order to do so from someone more senior. [SPENCER, 2008, PP. 184]
Wherley Takes over Call - Wherley has just arrived at the headquarters of the DCANG’s 121st Fighter Squadron at Andrews Air Force Base, near Washington (see (Shortly After 9:39 a.m.) September 11, 2001). At the operations desk there, Major Daniel Caine passed Wherley a phone he was talking over, before heading off to prepare to get airborne. [FILSON, 2003, PP. 78; VOGEL, 2007, PP. 445]
Caller Wants Jets over Washington - Wherley finds that the caller Caine was speaking with is from the Secret Service. They want the DCANG to put up a combat air patrol (CAP) over Washington. But, according to author Lynn Spencer: “Wherley knows that there has never been a CAP anywhere over this country, much less over Washington. Such a request—coming from someone not even in the military—is unheard of.” Wherley understands the power of the Secret Service, and knows that with its responsibility to protect the president it clearly has some authority over other agencies, including the military. “But still, such an order from a Secret Service agent seems rather far-reaching.” He therefore tells the caller, “I would feel more comfortable receiving such an order from someone higher in the chain of command, preferably in the military.”
Wherley Told to Call 'Operations Center' - According to Spencer, the agent gives Wherley “a phone number and tells him to call over to the White House Operations Center, where Vice President [Dick] Cheney has been ushered.” [SPENCER, 2008, PP. 184] Presumably the “Operations Center” is the Presidential Emergency Operations Center (PEOC) below the White House, where Cheney is evacuated to by his Secret Service agents (see (9:10 a.m.) September 11, 2001). [ABC NEWS, 9/14/2002; 9/11 COMMISSION, 7/24/2004, PP. 39-40] However, other accounts, including Wherley’s interview with the 9/11 Commission, will state that Wherley subsequently calls someone at the Secret Service’s White House Joint Operations Center (JOC), not the PEOC (see (9:45 a.m.) September 11, 2001). [FILSON, 2003, PP. 79; 9/11 COMMISSION, 8/28/2003]


The Secret Service has the technology to see the same radar screens the FAA sees in real time. Prove this fact. The FAA has many employees, the CIA has many employees, the US has many regulatory employees. Easy to prove is true.

It is reported that the US Secret Service is using an “air surveillance system” called Tigerwall. This serves to “ensure enhanced physical security at a high-value asset location by providing early warning of airborne threats.” Tigerwall “provides the Secret Service with a geographic display of aircraft activity and provides security personnel long-range camera systems to classify and identify aircraft. Sensor data from several sources are fused to provide a unified sensor display.” [US DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, 2000; US DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY, 9/2000, PP. 28 ]

As well as Tigerwall, the Secret Service appears to have other air surveillance capabilities. Counterterrorism “tsar” Richard Clarke will describe that on 9/11, the Secret Service had “a system that allowed them to see what FAA’s radar was seeing.” [CLARKE, 2004, PP. 7]

Barbara Riggs, a future deputy director of the Secret Service who is in its Washington, DC headquarters on 9/11, will describe the Secret Service “monitoring radar” during the attacks. [PCCW NEWSLETTER, 3/2006; STAR-GAZETTE (ELMIRA), 6/5/2006]

Furthermore, since 1974 the Secret Service operations center has possessed a special communications line from the control tower of Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport. This hotline allows air traffic controllers monitoring local radar to inform agents at the White House of any planes that are off course or appear to be on a “threatening vector.” [TIME, 9/26/1994]


They also have the legal authority and technological capability to take supreme command in cases of national emergency. Legal is easy enough if you can prove the US was in a "state of emergency." That's a real and very legal term, pretty easy to find out when that was done.

Once an event has been designated as an NSSE, the FBI becomes the lead agency for crisis management, FEMA becomes lead agency for consequence management, and the Secret Service becomes lead agency for designing and implementing security operations. [US DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, 8/3/2001; US DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY, 7/9/2003; CSO


Dick Cheney was the acting Commander in Chief on 9/11. That sort of event happens exceedingly rarely, but is a pretty documented event that happens for dozens of different reasons. Prove he was our Commander in Chief at that time.

If there was any power to shoot down or not shoot down planes it was in PEOC where Cheney took command. Whether you call it commander in chief or not, Cheney was definitely assuming the role Bush should have been in control of but for some reason Cheney was the one rushed to a command post by the Secret Service, not Bush.
Nice cut and paste.
Old 09-14-10, 06:38 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Much better! I still can't use your book citations, but at least it is a start in the right direction. It saying things like "a person knows" sort of rubs me the wrong way as it if what you are reading is fiction. Your 4th point is not proof per say, but you acknowledge that you might have misspoke and that he was probably the most senior official in charge is good enough for me.
Old 09-14-10, 06:39 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Guarddog View Post
Dick Cheney was the acting Commander in Chief on 9/11.
No, he was not. If you have proof otherwise, please post it.
Old 09-14-10, 06:39 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by covenant View Post
Nice cut and paste.
It's not a YouTube movie so count your blessings!
Old 09-14-10, 06:45 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by covenant View Post
Nice cut and paste.
How about a link to the source?
Old 09-14-10, 06:46 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Dick Cheney was placed directly in charge of managing the seamless integration of all training exercises throughout the entire federal government and all military agencies. This one will be rough, but you can try.

On 9/11 Cheney oversaw multiple war games and terror drills, including several exercises of NORAD, the Air Force agency whose mandate is to "watch the sky." Same with this one. As far as I can tell this is just conjecture.
Old 09-14-10, 06:46 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Navinabob View Post
Much better! I still can't use your book citations, but at least it is a start in the right direction. It saying things like "a person knows" sort of rubs me the wrong way as it if what you are reading is fiction. Your 4th point is not proof per say, but you acknowledge that you might have misspoke and that he was probably the most senior official in charge is good enough for me.
I wonder how you have the strength to keep up with him, but you're doing an admirable job I will say.
Old 09-14-10, 06:48 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by VinVega View Post
How about a link to the source?
http://www.historycommons.org/entity...=david_wherley

The nice part is we can now predict his answers
Old 09-14-10, 06:50 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by VinVega View Post
I wonder how you have the strength to keep up with him, but you're doing an admirable job I will say.
I'm working up to my Guarddog trainer merit badge.
Old 09-14-10, 08:24 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Guarddog View Post
In response to how Cheney was involved in NORAD:

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/fre...ify_case.shtml
--------------------------
On May 8, 2001 - four months prior to 9/11 - the president placed Dick Cheney in charge of "All federal programs dealing with weapons of mass destruction consequence management within the Departments of Defense, Health and Human Services, Justice, and Energy, the Environmental Protection Agency, and other federal agencies…" This included all "training and planning" which needed to be "seamlessly integrated, harmonious and comprehensive" in order to "maximize effectiveness." This mandate created the Office of National Preparedness in FEMA, overseen by Dick Cheney.
Your source is a notorious liar. Once again, a "truther" has fooled you and others by rearranging a few letters and misrepresenting the truth. Dick Cheney was not put in charge of NORAD, and not in charge of "training and planning," which seems to be where the completely unfounded myth of him ordering fighter trainings on 9/11 comes from. Here is what he was put in charge of:

Therefore, I have asked Vice President Cheney to oversee the development of a coordinated national effort so that we may do the very best possible job of protecting our people from catastrophic harm. I have also asked Joe Allbaugh, the Director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, to create an Office of National Preparedness. This Office will be responsible for implementing the results of those parts of the national effort overseen by Vice President Cheney that deal with consequence management. Specifically it will coordinate all Federal programs dealing with weapons of mass destruction consequence management within the Departments of Defense, Health and Human Services, Justice, and Energy, the Environmental Protection Agency, and other federal agencies. The Office of National Preparedness will work closely with state and local governments to ensure their planning, training, and equipment needs are addressed. FEMA will also work closely with the Department of Justice, in its lead role for crisis management, to ensure that all facets of our response to the threat from weapons of mass destruction are coordinated and cohesive. I will periodically chair a meeting of the National Security Council to review these efforts.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea.../20010508.html

In other words, his role had nothing to do with training for hijackings or scrambling fighters or anything of the sort. It was to ensure that in case of WMD attack, state, federal, and local agencies were prepared and trained to handle the aftermath.

So to be clear, here is where the carfefully selected words come in. Ruppert says:

This included all "training and planning" which needed to be "seamlessly integrated, harmonious and comprehensive" in order to "maximize effectiveness."
That is pulled from this part of the press release above:

Today, numerous Federal departments and agencies have programs to deal with the consequences of a potential use of a chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear weapon in the United States. Many of these Federal programs offer training, planning, and assistance to state and local governments. But to maximize their effectiveness, these efforts need to be seamlessly integrated, harmonious, and comprehensive.
WMD consequence management coordination, and Cheney's role was to oversee it's development. No, Cheney was not "in charge of NORAD" prior to the attacks. And Ruppert has clearly misrepresented the source in order to make it fit.
Old 09-14-10, 08:37 PM
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Re: [citation needed]

at the thread title change. Bravo.
Old 09-14-10, 09:15 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Mad Dawg View Post
WMD consequence management coordination, and Cheney's role was to oversee it's development. No, Cheney was not "in charge of NORAD" prior to the attacks. And Ruppert has clearly misrepresented the source in order to make it fit.
But wait...I'm confused. I thought the 9/11 Truthers had the facts on their side? Why would Guarddog and Ruppert be sharing partial quotes out of context when they have a whole mountain of "hard evidence" backing them up?
Old 09-14-10, 09:40 PM
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Re: [citation needed]

Originally Posted by VinVega View Post
at the thread title change. Bravo.
Old 09-15-10, 04:20 AM
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Re: [citation needed]

Old 09-15-10, 08:32 AM
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Re: [citation needed]

Awesome!
Old 09-15-10, 04:22 PM
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Re: [citation needed]

Check out this case of the CIA secretly planting bombs in Oakland to fake a gasoline tanker melting the steel underbelly of a highway overpass.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...AGVOPHQU46.DTL

We know it's part of a bomb plot because fire can NEVER melt steel and cause a structure to collapse. Especially since this was outside with wind and lack of burning office materials to help it.

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