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Old 09-14-10, 12:31 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by movielib View Post
Uh, that didn't happen. The only confirmed case of death from unintentional acceleration (aside from driver error) was due to the floor mat.
"Confirmed" by whom? Your precious government agencies? <img src="http://www.riderfans.com/forum/images/smilies/tinfoilhat.gif">
Old 09-14-10, 12:32 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by movielib View Post
Uh, that didn't happen. The only confirmed case of death from unintentional acceleration (aside from driver error) was due to the floor mat.
Yeah? Well Audis did. Sure there was a cover up about it, but I've got graphs.
Old 09-14-10, 12:34 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
Yeah? Well Audis did. Sure there was a cover up about it, but I've got graphs.
Audi and Toyota have only one letter in common. The odds of this happening randomly are 1 in 47 BILLION. When something has odds that long, it means it was done intentionally to make you THINK they are different.
Old 09-14-10, 12:44 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

I wonder if bots, trolls, and conspiracy theorists all hang out together, since they have so much in common.
Old 09-14-10, 12:44 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Why did Guarddog ignore my post?





all i have to say is pretzels. that's right. I said it. once you figure it out, all will be solved!
Old 09-14-10, 12:44 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Bronkster View Post
Don't let these nay-sayers discourage you, Guarddog! Stay the course!
This has been the most entertaining post in this thread by far.
Old 09-14-10, 12:45 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Thor Simpson View Post
Audi and Toyota have only one letter in common. The odds of this happening randomly are 1 in 47 BILLION. When something has odds that long, it means it was done intentionally to make you THINK they are different.
let me find that prisonplanet link to support this....
Old 09-14-10, 12:46 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Guarddog, how old are you?
Old 09-14-10, 12:50 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Ok Groucho, sorry I seem to make you hate me so much. The most alarming coincidences is that there were emergency defense drills conducted on 9/11/01 and 7/7/05 that correlated with and were identical to the actual attacks. The chances of this happening without prior knowledge are about a trillion times less likely than you picking up the same grain of sand twice with a choice of every grain of sand in the world.

On 9/11 air defense failed to follow standard operating procedure and respond to the hijacked airplanes. There were at least 5, possibly 6, training exercises in operation during the days leading up to 9/11 meaning NORAD radar presented as many as 22 hijacked planes on the days leading up to and the day of 9/11. Since NORAD was briefed all hijackings were part of an exercise drill they were unable to respond to the 9/11 hijackings and normal response was delayed. One air traffic control personnel who was featured in a July 2004 BBC report was told a hijacked airplane was headed for NY and he responded by saying, "Is this real or an exercise?" The Associated Press has admitted the CIA was running drills on the morning of September 11th of crashing planes into buildings.

The CIA sponsored simulation consisted in a "scheduled exercise" held on the morning of September 11, 2001, where "a small corporate jet crashed into one of the four towers at the agency's headquarters building after experiencing a mechanical failure. (Quoted in Associated Press, 22 August 2002.)

On top of the many drills that prevented the military from gunning down the hijacked planes, Cheney was also aware of "orders" to not shoot them down:

Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta was in the Presidential Emergency Operating Center with Vice President Cheney as Flight 77 approached Washington, D.C. On May 23, 2003 in front of the 9/11 Commission, Secretary Mineta testified:

"During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, "The plane is 50 miles out." "The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to "the plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the Vice President, "Do the orders still stand?" And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?"

Since the plane in question hit the Pentagon, we must conclude that the 'order' wasn't to shoot the aircraft but to let it hit its target.



Now for 7/7/05:

A fictional scenario of multiple bomb attacks on London's underground stations occurred at the same time as the bomb attack on July 7, 2005. Peter Power, Managing Director of Visor Consultants, a private firm contracted by the London Metropolitan Police, explained in a BBC interview that he had overseen the anti-terror drill, on behalf of a business client whose identity he would not disclose. This scenario consisted of simultaneous bombs exploding at the exact time the bombs went off on that day in the exact place where they went off in the underground station.

POWER: At half past nine this morning we were actually running an exercise for a company of over a thousand people in London based on simultaneous bombs going off precisely at the railway stations where it happened this morning, so I still have the hairs on the back of my neck standing up right now.

HOST: To get this quite straight, you were running an exercise to see how you would cope with this and it happened while you were running the exercise?

POWER: Precisely, and it was about half past nine this morning, we planned this for a company and for obvious reasons I don't want to reveal their name but they're listening and they'll know it. And we had a room full of crisis managers for the first time they'd met and so within five minutes we made a pretty rapid decision that this is the real one and so we went through the correct drills of activating crisis management procedures to jump from slow time to quick time thinking and so on.

(BBC Radio Interview, 7 July 2005)

In light of these coincidences one would expect that these matters would be addressed in a serious, professional fashion by police investigation but they are ignored and labeled "bizarre coincidences" by the Bush and Blair administrations.
Old 09-14-10, 01:00 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Until I saw the 1964 on the plane vs. building building post by Guarddog he almost had me. I just about to concede him one valid point with one valid source. Considering our advances in structural engineering in the last 50 years I'd agree with the rest of the sane folk and say it really brings his conclusion into question.

Has Guarddog mentioned what the 'Hard evidence" was? Since all of his other arguments from his terrorist website has been put into question, I'd like to at least know what that item was.
Old 09-14-10, 01:03 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
I've got graphs.
Old 09-14-10, 01:03 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Guarddog View Post
Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta was in the Presidential Emergency Operating Center with Vice President Cheney as Flight 77 approached Washington, D.C. On May 23, 2003 in front of the 9/11 Commission, Secretary Mineta testified:
link?


(and not to a conspiracy theory website you copied and pasted it from)
Old 09-14-10, 01:08 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Guarddog View Post
On 9/11 air defense failed to follow standard operating procedure and respond to the hijacked airplanes. There were at least 5, possibly 6, training exercises in operation during the days leading up to 9/11 meaning NORAD radar presented as many as 22 hijacked planes on the days leading up to and the day of 9/11. Since NORAD was briefed all hijackings were part of an exercise drill they were unable to respond to the 9/11 hijackings and normal response was delayed. One air traffic control personnel who was featured in a July 2004 BBC report was told a hijacked airplane was headed for NY and he responded by saying, "Is this real or an exercise?" The Associated Press has admitted the CIA was running drills on the morning of September 11th of crashing planes into buildings.

The CIA sponsored simulation consisted in a "scheduled exercise" held on the morning of September 11, 2001, where "a small corporate jet crashed into one of the four towers at the agency's headquarters building after experiencing a mechanical failure. (Quoted in Associated Press, 22 August 2002.)

On top of the many drills that prevented the military from gunning down the hijacked planes, Cheney was also aware of "orders" to not shoot them down:

Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta was in the Presidential Emergency Operating Center with Vice President Cheney as Flight 77 approached Washington, D.C. On May 23, 2003 in front of the 9/11 Commission, Secretary Mineta testified:

"During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, "The plane is 50 miles out." "The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to "the plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the Vice President, "Do the orders still stand?" And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?"

Since the plane in question hit the Pentagon, we must conclude that the 'order' wasn't to shoot the aircraft but to let it hit its target.
Again you quote a website that has its integrity challenged by repeatedly fabricating details that makes about a dozen conclusions without a stitch of proof. I already raised these Cheney questions, that you ignored, twice before that casts your version of the truth into doubt.
Old 09-14-10, 01:09 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Guarddog View Post
The Associated Press has admitted the CIA was running drills on the morning of September 11th of crashing planes into buildings.
I love the wording here. "Okay, stop the water boarding we'll talk. We admit it!!!"
Old 09-14-10, 01:11 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Guarddog View Post
Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta was in the Presidential Emergency Operating Center with Vice President Cheney as Flight 77 approached Washington, D.C. On May 23, 2003 in front of the 9/11 Commission, Secretary Mineta testified:

Since the plane in question hit the Pentagon, we must conclude that the 'order' wasn't to shoot the aircraft but to let it hit its target.
Why must we conclude that when Mineta continues on to say that the orders referred to "shoot down" orders but the scrambled jets were still 10 minutes away. Again, it is an example of intentionally leaving out portions of quotes in order to prove a point that simply does not exist.
Old 09-14-10, 01:12 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
link?


(and not to a conspiracy theory website you copied and pasted it from)
http://www.historycommons.org/timeli...e_911_timeline

See 9:26 am

Mineta will say that, “just by the nature of all the events going on,” he infers that the order being referred to is a shootdown order. Nevertheless, Flight 77 continues on and hits the Pentagon.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fTdAkhd6Dcw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fTdAkhd6Dcw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mGI5BmNd7AE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mGI5BmNd7AE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Last edited by Guarddog; 09-14-10 at 01:22 PM.
Old 09-14-10, 01:13 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

FDR was in on the Pearl Harbor Bombing. There, I said it.
Old 09-14-10, 01:13 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
link?


(and not to a conspiracy theory website you copied and pasted it from)
Here's the full testimony, which in context makes the exact opposite point that Guarddog did:

MR. HAMILTON: We thank you for that. I wanted to focus just a moment on the Presidential Emergency Operating Center. You were there for a good part of the day. I think you were there with the vice president. And when you had that order given, I think it was by the president, that authorized the shooting down of commercial aircraft that were suspected to be controlled by terrorists, were you there when that order was given?

MR. MINETA: No, I was not. I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" Well, at the time I didn't know what all that meant. And --

MR. HAMILTON: The flight you're referring to is the --

MR. MINETA: The flight that came into the Pentagon.

MR. HAMILTON: The Pentagon, yeah.

MR. MINETA: And so I was not aware that that discussion had already taken place. But in listening to the conversation between the young man and the vice president, then at the time I didn't really recognize the significance of that.

And then later I heard of the fact that the airplanes had been scrambled from Langley to come up to DC, but those planes were still about 10 minutes away. And so then, at the time we heard about the airplane that went into Pennsylvania, then I thought, "Oh, my God, did we shoot it down?" And then we had to, with the vice president, go through the Pentagon to check that out.

MR. HAMILTON: Let me see if I understand. The plane that was headed toward the Pentagon and was some miles away, there was an order to shoot that plane down.

MR. MINETA: Well, I don't know that specifically, but I do know that the airplanes were scrambled from Langley or from Norfolk, the Norfolk area. But I did not know about the orders specifically other than listening to that other conversation.

MR. HAMILTON: But there very clearly was an order to shoot commercial aircraft down.

MR. MINETA: Subsequently I found that out.
Link: http://www.9-11commission.gov/archiv...2003-05-23.htm
Old 09-14-10, 01:15 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
link?

http://www.chocolatevault.com/giraffes.htm
Old 09-14-10, 01:17 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Guarddog, please respond
Old 09-14-10, 01:17 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Mazje View Post
I'm sold!
Old 09-14-10, 01:19 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Guarddog View Post
http://www.historycommons.org/timeli...e_911_timeline

See 9:26 am

Mineta will say that, “just by the nature of all the events going on,” he infers that the order being referred to is a shootdown order. Nevertheless, Flight 77 continues on and hits the Pentagon.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fTdAkhd6Dcw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fTdAkhd6Dcw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Again you ability at reading comprehension comes into serious question.

This is a joke, right? You're doing an internet troll/ Andy Kaufman gag, right?
Well done sir.
Old 09-14-10, 01:20 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Yes, let's stick to this point and allow Guarddog to address it. Then we can move onto another juicy one.
Old 09-14-10, 01:21 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
link?


(and not to a conspiracy theory website you copied and pasted it from)
From here:
http://www.9-11commission.gov/archiv...2003-05-23.htm

Though his accounts also differ here:

The Vice President in Washington: Underground, in Touch With Bush

Transportation Secretary Norman Y. Mineta, summoned by the White House to the bunker, was on an open line to the Federal Aviation Administration operations center, monitoring Flight 77 as it hurtled toward Washington, with radar tracks coming every seven seconds. Reports came that the plane was 50 miles out, 30 miles out, 10 miles out-until word reached the bunker that there had been an explosion at the Pentagon.

Mineta shouted into the phone to Monte Belger at the FAA: "Monte, bring all the planes down." It was an unprecedented order-there were 4,546 airplanes in the air at the time. Belger, the FAA's acting deputy administrator, amended Mineta's directive to take into account the authority vested in airline pilots. "We're bringing them down per pilot discretion," Belger told the secretary.

"[Expletive] pilot discretion," Mineta yelled back. "Get those [expletive] planes down."

Sitting at the other end of the table, Cheney snapped his head up, looked squarely at Mineta and nodded in agreement.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...02Jan26_3.html

Mineta's testimony to the Commission on Flight 77 differs rather significantly from the account provided in the January 22, 2002 edition of the Washington Post, as reported by Bob Woodward and Dan Balz in their series "10 Days in September"

This same article also reports that the conversation between Cheney and the aide occurred at 9:55 am, about 30 minutes later than the time Mineta cited (9:26 am) during his testimony to the 9/11 Commission.

Which account is correct? Beats me. I did my senior studies on Elizabeth Loftus and her Eye-Witness testimony experiments so I'm inclined to side with science and say it is probably a mixture of the two with loads of misremembered facts tossed in as gravy.

Last edited by Navinabob; 09-14-10 at 01:48 PM.
Old 09-14-10, 02:01 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
Can you stick to one point and discuss it or is it that you know that you have no case? Is it like trying to argue that the earth is 7,000 years old and you can't discuss aspects of it, but only bring up other things that are taken out of context so that you can go on to the next?
I was going to point out the similarity between guarddog's 'debate' style and those of wacked out young earth creationists. The 'info dump' is my favorite tactic. Just keep bringing in more and more crap that no one has time to respond to. But hey, look at all that evidence, and since every.single.point can't be addressed, they must be right! Of course most of it is made up bullshit and the person posting has little to no understanding of either side.

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