Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 09-14-10, 11:27 AM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Guarddog View Post
Dude...he lies.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/T3s4_dkKn8Y?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/T3s4_dkKn8Y?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Here he talks not about plane crashes but explosives:

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/USnxe7hxP4I?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/USnxe7hxP4I?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
Fuck! Why do I bother answering your posts? You never respond, only posting more bullshit.

This is the genius that pulled off 9-11? Really?

He obviously misspoke or even exaggerated to connect with his audience (do you remember how Hillary was dodging sniper fire?). You haven't provided one single shred of proof. Do you know why? Because there is none. Only cherry picked half truths, guesses, and misinformation.

EDIT: You keep adding meaningless clips on the end of your posts. What does that last clip have to do with anything? Seriously, stop.
Old 09-14-10, 11:27 AM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Guarddog View Post

Hijack 'suspect' alive in Morocco:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/hijack_s...in_morocco.htm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditor..._theory_1.html

It only took about thirty seconds to find another link, from the same source, that makes the information in the OP's first link irrelevant. I won't waste any additional time bothering with his other sources from the same post (what's the point?).

Since the truth isn't good enough for the OP, I'm sure this new link isn't either.
Old 09-14-10, 11:37 AM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Guarddog View Post
Frank A. DeMartini, Manager, WTC Construction and Project Management, discusses the fact that the WTC towers were designed to take multiple hits from airliners and not collapse, comparing it to poking a pencil through fly netting, DeMartini was adament that the towers would not collapse. DeMartini died in the towers on 9/11, this interview clip was taken from video shot in January 2001.
Note that the WTC was designed around the same time the 737 was coming into service, so that's what they would've been benchmarking against. The Twin Towers were struck by 767s. Don't you think that might obsolete the design parameters?
Old 09-14-10, 11:42 AM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

I wonder if Guarddog really understands that those clips do not mean what he thinks they do? Not one of his captions relates to the clips (at least not in the way he means).

Comprehension must be a lost art on his planet.
Old 09-14-10, 11:46 AM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
Note that the WTC was designed around the same time the 737 was coming into service, so that's what they would've been benchmarking against. The Twin Towers were struck by 767s. Don't you think that might obsolete the design parameters?
Planes of 911 Exceeded Their Software Limits - only remote controlled Boeings could have performed high G turns on 9/11: The Boeing 757 and 767 are equipped with fully autonomous flight capability, they are the only two Boeing commuter aircraft capable of fully autonomous flight. They can be programmed to take off, fly to a destination and land, completely without a pilot at the controls.
Old 09-14-10, 11:47 AM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by DeputyDave View Post
Fuck! Why do I bother answering your posts? You never respond, only posting more bullshit.
7. Inability to withdraw. It's a rare day indeed when a conspiracy theorist admits that a claim they have made has turned out to be without foundation, whether it be the overall claim itself or any of the evidence produced to support it. Moreover they have a liking (see 3. above) for the technique of avoiding discussion of their claims by "swamping" - piling on a whole lot more material rather than respond to the objections sceptics make to the previous lot.

Trying to have an intelligent, rational discussion with conspiracy theorists is an exercise in futility.
Old 09-14-10, 11:47 AM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by DeputyDave View Post
So? He was wrong. The person who said the Titanic was unsinkable met the same fate.
Why did you have to bring the Titanic in to this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saHs6J0OXVI

"The Titanic was made out of metal. Metal is stronger than ice".
Old 09-14-10, 11:50 AM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Guarddog apparently has never heard the maxim, "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." If he was a German in the 1920s, he'd probably believe the Stab in the Back because General Schlieffen said his plan was foolproof.
Old 09-14-10, 11:50 AM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

CIA Bin Laden connections: http://www.prisonplanet.com/911.html#binladen

Prior knowlege of planes being used as weapons:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/911.html#flight93

Last edited by Guarddog; 09-14-10 at 11:59 AM.
Old 09-14-10, 11:51 AM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by eXcentris View Post
7. Inability to withdraw. It's a rare day indeed when a conspiracy theorist admits that a claim they have made has turned out to be without foundation, whether it be the overall claim itself or any of the evidence produced to support it. Moreover they have a liking (see 3. above) for the technique of avoiding discussion of their claims by "swamping" - piling on a whole lot more material rather than respond to the objections sceptics make to the previous lot.

Trying to have an intelligent, rational discussion with conspiracy theorists is an exercise in futility.
I would be participating as I have in past 9/11 conspiracy screed, but I know what happens every time.
Old 09-14-10, 11:53 AM
  #261  
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Guarddog View Post
Stop. Please.

Make one point that you are willing to DISCUSS. Take your pick. Then we can move on to the next point.
Old 09-14-10, 11:55 AM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Guarddog View Post
Planes of 911 Exceeded Their Software Limits - only remote controlled Boeings could have performed high G turns on 9/11: The Boeing 757 and 767 are equipped with fully autonomous flight capability, they are the only two Boeing commuter aircraft capable of fully autonomous flight. They can be programmed to take off, fly to a destination and land, completely without a pilot at the controls.
Whoa, no link or citation? OP, you have failed to provide a bullshit source for this post. Please edit accordingly.
Old 09-14-10, 11:57 AM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Guarddog View Post
Planes of 911 Exceeded Their Software Limits - only remote controlled Boeings could have performed high G turns on 9/11: The Boeing 757 and 767 are equipped with fully autonomous flight capability, they are the only two Boeing commuter aircraft capable of fully autonomous flight. They can be programmed to take off, fly to a destination and land, completely without a pilot at the controls.
Don't change the damned subject.

You claimed that the Twin Towers were designd to withstand collisions with airplanes.

I pointed out the WTC was struck by planes that were two generations more advanced than the state-of-the-art when the Towers were designed.

High-G turns and autonoous flight capabilities have nothing to do with it. Just tell me: Do you have evidence that the WTC architect was forward thinking enough to benchmark against planes that hadn't even been invented yet?

Don't wait for the translation, just answer the question.
Old 09-14-10, 11:59 AM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Dave7393 View Post
Whoa, no link or citation? OP, you have failed to provide a bullshit source for this post. Please edit accordingly.
You know it came from prisonplanet, right?
Old 09-14-10, 11:59 AM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Don't let these nay-sayers discourage you, Guarddog! Stay the course!
Old 09-14-10, 12:00 PM
  #266  
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

I love how "Bush lies" means proof of a conspiracy, but when his own source lies (I'm talking full on edits of quotes) he says nothing. If anything Guarddog is providing proof of a conspiracy that a group of unAmericans with internet access have been trying to launch a campaign against our government by spreading lies and half-truths via YouTube.

Guarddog is a terrorist!

It's funny because I actually get hunt for terrorists for a living. I've got an ongoing case with someone connected to posting Al-Qaeda execution videos through business ventures between Pakistan and the US. Once their trial is concluded I'll see if I can get permission to speak about it if you guys care.
Old 09-14-10, 12:00 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

I know we are supposed to do personal attacks, but honestly, can't we bend the rules just this once?
Old 09-14-10, 12:03 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by covenant View Post
You know it came from prisonplanet, right?
It wouldn't surprise me if the OP could quote the narration to Loose Change off the top of his head.
Old 09-14-10, 12:08 PM
  #269  
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Guarddog View Post
CIA Bin Laden connections: http://www.prisonplanet.com/911.html#binladen

Prior knowlege of planes being used as weapons:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/911.html#flight93
Can you stick to one point and discuss it or is it that you know that you have no case? Is it like trying to argue that the earth is 7,000 years old and you can't discuss aspects of it, but only bring up other things that are taken out of context so that you can go on to the next?

Do you not understand that substance matters far more than amount?

Most conpsiracy theory nutbags like the feeling of superiority as they are privy to something that other people just don't get. It would be nice if you could pin that feeling on something concrete. Otherwise, you are just a sad little guy who doesn't understand how to communicate, but only how to regurgitate.
Old 09-14-10, 12:09 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
Don't change the damned subject.

You claimed that the Twin Towers were designd to withstand collisions with airplanes.

I pointed out the WTC was struck by planes that were two generations more advanced than the state-of-the-art when the Towers were designed.

High-G turns and autonoous flight capabilities have nothing to do with it. Just tell me: Do you have evidence that the WTC architect was forward thinking enough to benchmark against planes that hadn't even been invented yet?

Don't wait for the translation, just answer the question.
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/design.html

Contrary to widely promoted misconceptions, the Boeing 767-200s used on 9/11/01 were only slightly larger than 707s and DC 8s, the types of jetliners whose impacts the World Trade Center's designers anticipated.



The above graphic from Chapter 1 of FEMA's Report shows the sizes of a 707 and a 767 relative to the footprint of a WTC tower. 1 Flight 11 and Flight 175 were Boeing 767-200s. Although a 767-200 has a slightly wider body than a 707, the two models are very similar in overall size, weight and fuel capacity.

property Boeing 707-320 Boeing 767-200
fuel capacity 23,000 gallons 23,980 gallons
max takeoff weight 328,060 lbs 395,000 lbs
empty weight 137,562 lbs 179,080 lbs
wingspan 145.75 ft 156.08 ft
wing area 3010 ft^2 3050 ft^2
length 152.92 ft 159.17 ft
cruise speed 607 mph 530 mph

Given the differences in cruise speeds, a 707 in normal flight would actually have more kinetic energy than a 767, despite the slightly smaller size. Note the similar fuel capacities of both aircraft. The 767s used on September 11th were estimated to be carrying about 10,000 gallons of fuel each at the time of impact, only about 40% of the capacity of a 707.

John Skilling was the head structural engineer for the World Trade Center. In a 1993 interview, Skilling stated that the Towers were designed to withstand the impact and fires resulting from the collision of a large jetliner such as Boeing 707 or Douglas DC-8.

Our analysis indicated the biggest problem would be the fact that all the fuel (from the airplane) would dump into the building. There would be a horrendous fire. A lot of people would be killed, ... The building structure would still be there. 3
A white paper released on February 3, 1964 states that the Towers could have withstood impacts of jetliners travelling 600 mph -- a speed greater than the impact speed of either jetliner used on 9/11/01.

The buildings have been investigated and found to be safe in an assumed collision with a large jet airliner (Boeing 707óDC 8) traveling at 600 miles per hour. Analysis indicates that such collision would result in only local damage which could not cause collapse or substantial damage to the building and would not endanger the lives and safety of occupants not in the immediate area of impact. 4

Like All Skyscrapers, the Twin Towers Were Over-Engineered

One aspect of engineering that is not widely understood is that structures are over-engineered as a matter of standard practice. 7 Steel structures like bridges and buildings are typically designed to withstand five times anticipated static loads and 3 times anticipated dynamic loads. The anticipated loads are the largest ones expected during the life of the structure, like the worst hurricane or earthquake occurring while the floors are packed with standing-room-only crowds. Given that September 11th was not a windy day, and that there were not throngs of people in the upper floors, the critical load ratio was probably well over 10, meaning that more than nine-tenths of the columns at the same level would have to fail before the weight of the top could have overcome the support capacity of the remaining columns.

There is evidence that the Twin Towers were designed with an even greater measure of reserve strength than typical large buildings. According to the 1964 white paper cited above, a Tower would still be able to withstand a 100-mile-per-hour wind after all the perimeter columns on one face and some of the columns on each adjacent face had been cut. 8 Also, John Skilling is cited by the Engineering News Record for the claim that "live loads on these [perimeter] columns can be increased more than 2000% before failure occurs." 9
Old 09-14-10, 12:10 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

This thread started out entertaining enough, but now my head hurts
Old 09-14-10, 12:10 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
Pick ONE that you think is particularly damning, post it here (in your own words), and let's discuss.
Well, this request was a failure. Guarddog, you stated that ANY ONE of those points completely dismantle the official version of events. Again, pick one and argue it IN YOUR OWN WORDS. Not with "cut and paste", not with links (apart from citing your sources), not with You Tube videos.
Old 09-14-10, 12:22 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by Guarddog View Post
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/design.html

Contrary to widely promoted misconceptions, the Boeing 767-200s used on 9/11/01 were only slightly larger than 707s and DC 8s, the types of jetliners whose impacts the World Trade Center's designers anticipated.



The above graphic from Chapter 1 of FEMA's Report shows the sizes of a 707 and a 767 relative to the footprint of a WTC tower. 1 Flight 11 and Flight 175 were Boeing 767-200s. Although a 767-200 has a slightly wider body than a 707, the two models are very similar in overall size, weight and fuel capacity.

property Boeing 707-320 Boeing 767-200
fuel capacity 23,000 gallons 23,980 gallons
max takeoff weight 328,060 lbs 395,000 lbs
empty weight 137,562 lbs 179,080 lbs
wingspan 145.75 ft 156.08 ft
wing area 3010 ft^2 3050 ft^2
length 152.92 ft 159.17 ft
cruise speed 607 mph 530 mph

Given the differences in cruise speeds, a 707 in normal flight would actually have more kinetic energy than a 767, despite the slightly smaller size. Note the similar fuel capacities of both aircraft. The 767s used on September 11th were estimated to be carrying about 10,000 gallons of fuel each at the time of impact, only about 40% of the capacity of a 707.

John Skilling was the head structural engineer for the World Trade Center. In a 1993 interview, Skilling stated that the Towers were designed to withstand the impact and fires resulting from the collision of a large jetliner such as Boeing 707 or Douglas DC-8.

Our analysis indicated the biggest problem would be the fact that all the fuel (from the airplane) would dump into the building. There would be a horrendous fire. A lot of people would be killed, ... The building structure would still be there. 3
A white paper released on February 3, 1964 states that the Towers could have withstood impacts of jetliners travelling 600 mph -- a speed greater than the impact speed of either jetliner used on 9/11/01.

The buildings have been investigated and found to be safe in an assumed collision with a large jet airliner (Boeing 707óDC 8) traveling at 600 miles per hour. Analysis indicates that such collision would result in only local damage which could not cause collapse or substantial damage to the building and would not endanger the lives and safety of occupants not in the immediate area of impact. 4

Like All Skyscrapers, the Twin Towers Were Over-Engineered

One aspect of engineering that is not widely understood is that structures are over-engineered as a matter of standard practice. 7 Steel structures like bridges and buildings are typically designed to withstand five times anticipated static loads and 3 times anticipated dynamic loads. The anticipated loads are the largest ones expected during the life of the structure, like the worst hurricane or earthquake occurring while the floors are packed with standing-room-only crowds. Given that September 11th was not a windy day, and that there were not throngs of people in the upper floors, the critical load ratio was probably well over 10, meaning that more than nine-tenths of the columns at the same level would have to fail before the weight of the top could have overcome the support capacity of the remaining columns.

There is evidence that the Twin Towers were designed with an even greater measure of reserve strength than typical large buildings. According to the 1964 white paper cited above, a Tower would still be able to withstand a 100-mile-per-hour wind after all the perimeter columns on one face and some of the columns on each adjacent face had been cut. 8 Also, John Skilling is cited by the Engineering News Record for the claim that "live loads on these [perimeter] columns can be increased more than 2000% before failure occurs." 9
As I said, they said the same thing about the Titanic. All you're saying is that the towers were not supposed to fall when hit with a plane. Nothing even remotely similar to this has ever happened before, since the building was built before computer models they were simply going on educated guesses (and as we all know computer models are mostly bullshit as well).

Toyotas were not supposed to accelerate on their own and kill innocent people. Shit happens despite our best efforts.

Without proof that something else happened I will believe my eyes and the reports of legitimate experts.
Old 09-14-10, 12:26 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by DeputyDave View Post
Toyotas were not supposed to accelerate on their own and kill innocent people. Shit happens despite our best efforts.
Uh, that didn't happen. The only confirmed case of death from unintentional acceleration (aside from driver error) was due to the floor mat.
Old 09-14-10, 12:31 PM
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Re: 1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World

Originally Posted by movielib View Post
Uh, that didn't happen. The only confirmed case of death from unintentional acceleration (aside from driver error) was due to the floor mat.
Th thought the one that happened here in San Diego (with the border patrol agent and his family in a rental) was the accelerator? I may be wrong.

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