DVD Talk Forum

DVD Talk Forum (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/)
-   Religion, Politics and World Events (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/religion-politics-world-events-47/)
-   -   Feds Convict Texan for Selling a Gun to Illegal Alien With Texas Driver’s License (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/religion-politics-world-events/578875-feds-convict-texan-selling-gun-illegal-alien-texas-driver%92s-license.html)

Guarddog 09-05-10 12:54 AM

Feds Convict Texan for Selling a Gun to Illegal Alien With Texas Driver’s License
 
FLASHBACK: Feds, Cops Attempt to Shut Down Legal Gun Sales in Austin, Texas
FLASHBACK: APD Releases Official Explanation of Gun Shows Shut Down

Peaceable Texans For Firearms Rights
September 2, 2010

(PRESS RELEASE – Download .doc) In Federal District Court on July 20, 2010, the ATF won a conviction from an Austin jury that defies logic and reason.

In a trial before Federal Judge Sam Sparks, government lawyers conceded Texas resident Paul Copeland did not know his buyer was an illegal alien, but the jury they should convict him anyway because he “had reasonable cause to believe” he was selling to an illegal alien because the two men and a boy who were present at his table at the time of the sale: 1) were Hispanic, 2) spoke Spanish, and 3) wore cowboy clothing. And the jury did as asked. Assistant U.S. Attorney Jennifer Freel acted as lead prosecutor in the case.

The firearm transaction at issue occurred on January 16, 2010, at a gunshow at the North Austin Events Center, at 10601 N. Lamar Blvd., in Austin, Texas. Undercover ATF agents followed Mr. Huerta, his son, and another Hispanic male, Hipolito Aviles, around the “Texas Gunshow” that day, and claimed to observe Huerta’s transaction. Austin P.D. used Copeland’s case as the reason to close down the gunshow, leading to a protest by Austin residents in front of APD headquarters on January 25.

FLASHBACK: APD Releases Official Explanation of Gun Shows Shut Down“Austin Police Department Firearm Review Unit detectives assisted in the Austin portion of the operation. They observed and participated in multiple arrests of prohibited persons (primarily convicted felons and illegal immigrants) that obtained firearms illegally at a local gun show. Federal convictions were obtained in a majority of the cases,” the press release states.
Mr. Copeland is a 56 year old Cedar Creek resident and Vietnam veteran who liked to buy, sell, and trade firearms as a hobby. On January 16, however, he had the misfortune to sell a handgun to Leonel Huerta Sr., who spoke both English and Spanish. Huerta Sr. negotiated his purchase from Copeland in English, showing Copeland his Texas Driver’s License. At Copeland’s trial Huerta admitted on the witness stand, that he is in the country illegally, (Huerta Sr. had previously admitted this fact to Immigration & Customs Enforcement (ICE) Special Agent Leo Buentello). ATF Agent Shawn Kang claimed he saw Huerta later hand off the gun to Aviles. Despite these admissions, Huerta Sr. was never arrested, charged, or deported. Instead, his presence at the gunshow was used to entrap an American citizen into an unwitting violation of a federal gun control law. Huerta Sr., who is a resident of the City of Austin, appeared as a witness at the trial, admitted he was in the country illegally before federal prosecutors and a federal judge, yet he was allowed to leave the courtroom under his own power. To date Huerta Sr. has not been prosecuted for his purchase, possession, or disposition of the handgun he bought from Copeland, while Copeland is now a convicted felon.

Instead of busting the illegal alien for buying, they bust the citizen for selling,” commented Paul Velte, attorney and founder of Peaceable Texans for Firearms Rights, a gun-owners rights advocacy group from Austin. Velte asked, “who was in a better position to know the buyer’s immigration status, the buyer or the seller?” He also said, “What happened to Paul Copeland should enrage all Americans. The Federal Government is using illegal aliens to entrap citizens lawfully exercising their right to sell firearms. The illegal alien walks free, but the citizen gets convicted. The same government charged with controlling immigration is the one using illegal immigrants to attack its own citizens. Does this make any sense? It makes no sense unless the purpose is to discourage attendance at gunshows and frighten citizens from selling their firearms to other citizens.”


Velte pointed out that “There is no way for a citizen to know who is here legally or not. In fact, under Austin’s ‘sanctuary city’ policy, not even the police officer at the door of the gunshow was allowed to ask a person’s immigration status, yet the average Texan inside the show is expected to assume that a person standing before them with a Texas driver’s license is in the country illegally just because they look Mexican and speak Spanish.”

Velte noted that the federal government’s lawsuit against Arizona was based on that very type of conduct: Concluding someone could be here illegally based on their looks or their language. Velte said gun owners in his group are outraged, and they want to know:

Why is the illegal alien who purchased the gun, Leonel Huerta Sr., still living in Austin?

Why does he still have a Texas Driver’s license?

Why is ATF using illegal aliens to set up and convict American citizens?

What has he been promised for his cooperation?

Why has he not been prosecuted? He committed three distinct crimes: he purchased a firearm knowing he was an illegal alien, he possessed the firearm, and he transferred the handgun to another illegal alien (Hippolito Aviles, who was convicted and given time served on June 30, 2010).

Why has Huerta Sr. not been deported?

Contact: Paul Velte, 512-296-5563
Peaceable Texans for Firearms Rights
website: http://www.io.com/~velte/pt.htm

chuckd21 09-05-10 12:57 AM

Re: Feds Convict Texan for Selling a Gun to Illegal Alien With Texas Driver’s License
 
Take the guns out of the equation and this isn't an issue.

Guarddog 09-05-10 01:04 AM

Re: Feds Convict Texan for Selling a Gun to Illegal Alien With Texas Driver’s License
 

Originally Posted by chuckd21 (Post 10355745)
Take the guns out of the equation and this isn't an issue.

Wow

"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves …"
Richard Henry Lee
writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic, Letter XVIII, May, 1788.

"The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full posession of them."
Zachariah Johnson
Elliot's Debates, vol. 3 "The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution."

"… the people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms"
Philadelphia Federal Gazette
June 18, 1789, Pg. 2, Col. 2
Article on the Bill of Rights

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …"
Samuel Adams
quoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, "Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State"


"Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
George Washington
First President of the United States

"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
Thomas Paine

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788

"The great object is that every man be armed." and "Everyone who is able may have a gun."
Patrick Henry
American Patriot

"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"
Patrick Henry
American Patriot

"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Thomas Jefferson
Third President of the United States

"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that … it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; … "
Thomas Jefferson
letter to Justice John Cartwright, June 5, 1824. ME 16:45.

"The best we can help for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
Alexander Hamilton
The Federalist Papers at 184-8

Hokeyboy 09-05-10 01:10 AM

Re: Feds Convict Texan for Selling a Gun to Illegal Alien With Texas Driver’s License
 
"Whoso belongs only to his own age, and reverences only its gilt Popinjays or smoot-smeared Mumbojumbos, must needs die with it."
Thomas Carlyle, 1864
Scottish essayist, satirist, and historian

NORML54601 09-05-10 01:53 AM

Re: Feds Convict Texan for Selling a Gun to Illegal Alien With Texas Driver’s License
 
Grundle? Is that you?

E. Honda 09-05-10 04:11 AM

Re: Feds Convict Texan for Selling a Gun to Illegal Alien With Texas Driver’s License
 
http://www.lindenmanphoto.com/celebr...n%20Heston.jpg

Take your stinking paws off my guns, you damn dirty apes!

Jose Dromedary 09-05-10 07:01 AM

Re: Feds Convict Texan for Selling a Gun to Illegal Alien With Texas Driver’s License
 
The seller is convicted because he's supposed to suspect that the buyer was illegal because he was hispanic, spoke spanish and wore cowboy outfits but he had a valid Texas driver's license????????? And then theres a clear law stating that its illegal to request immigration status???????????????????

There has to be more to the story. This sounds too ridiculous to be true.

I suspect this type of stupidness will increase with that Arizona law.

Nick Danger 09-05-10 08:48 AM

Re: Feds Convict Texan for Selling a Gun to Illegal Alien With Texas Driver’s License
 

Gun dealer sentenced to 6-months for selling weapons to a undocumented immigrant.
Newsroom
8/31/2010

One of the gun dealers of Austin's Gun Show is sentenced to 6-months at a federal work camp for selling a weapon to an undocumented immigrant. Independent firearms dealer-Paul Copeland says for years he has commonly sold handguns and antique weapons with no problems and prior to his arrest the illegal immigrant showed him what appeared to be a valid Texas driver’s license. In January 2009, the ATF along with the Austin police department set up a sting operation targeting independent firearms dealers that were selling weapons to illegal immigrants, both inside the show and outside the Austin’s Gun Show’s parking lot. Shortly after the series of arrests, the regularly scheduled weapons-event was asked to move from the North Austin location. Investigators with the Austin police department believed many of the guns sold to the undocumented immigrants at the show were headed back across the Texas-Mexico border. “I guess you need ask them <Latinos> for their documentation too; if the police aren’t going to profile why should the common citizen have to” says Copeland. He says none of the undocumented immigrants that were asked to testify against him were arrested by federal agents. Austin's Federal Judge Sam Sparks sentenced Copeland to spend the next 6-months at a federal work camp followed by 2-years of probation.
http://www.590klbj.com/News/Story.aspx?id=1272077

This is the only story I could find that wasn't a reprint of the same thing.

I don't know anything about gun shows, so I have a question: If someone is selling guns out in the parking lot outside the gun show, does that sound like he's trying to pull a fast one by avoiding the gun show rules? Or is it more likely that it's just someone who has one firearm to sell and doesn't want to buy a table?

rw2516 09-05-10 10:03 AM

Re: Feds Convict Texan for Selling a Gun to Illegal Alien With Texas Driver’s License
 
How does a seller at a gun show know if the buyer is a convicted felon or not? Substitute felon for illegal immigrant in this situation, should the seller be prosecuted?
What about minors with fake I.D.s? Aren't business owners punished for selling alcohol or cigarettes to minors even if the minor had a fake ID stating they were old enough? A girl can have ID saying she's 18, but if she's 15 and you fuck her, you're going to jail.
How are the gun sellers being singled out?

A. It's illegal to sell firearms to illegal alien
B. The guy(s) sold firearms to illegal alien
C. What's the beef?

Mrs. Danger 09-05-10 10:07 AM

Re: Feds Convict Texan for Selling a Gun to Illegal Alien With Texas Driver’s License
 
Could someone bold the important parts?

Sean O'Hara 09-05-10 10:07 AM

Re: Feds Convict Texan for Selling a Gun to Illegal Alien With Texas Driver’s License
 

Originally Posted by Joe Camel (Post 10355904)
The seller is convicted because he's supposed to suspect that the buyer was illegal because he was hispanic, spoke spanish and wore cowboy outfits but he had a valid Texas driver's license????????? And then theres a clear law stating that its illegal to request immigration status???????????????????

There has to be more to the story. This sounds too ridiculous to be true.

It's part of the Obama administration's racist policies in which we're supposed to assume anyone with brown skin and a Mexican accent is an illegal alien.

(Seriously mods, why isn't this in Politiics?)

adrenaline78 09-05-10 01:16 PM

Re: Feds Convict Texan for Selling a Gun to Illegal Alien With Texas Driver’s License
 

Originally Posted by rw2516 (Post 10355970)
How does a seller at a gun show know if the buyer is a convicted felon or not? Substitute felon for illegal immigrant in this situation, should the seller be prosecuted?
What about minors with fake I.D.s? Aren't business owners punished for selling alcohol or cigarettes to minors even if the minor had a fake ID stating they were old enough? A girl can have ID saying she's 18, but if she's 15 and you fuck her, you're going to jail.
How are the gun sellers being singled out?

A. It's illegal to sell firearms to illegal alien
B. The guy(s) sold firearms to illegal alien
C. What's the beef?


In many state Illegal's can get driver's licenses. So it's probably legit and not fake.

How would the vendor determine that the guy was an illegal? After all said illegal was in the states, had a driver's license, and was going to a gun show.


So the mexican cleaning crew at my store are probably illegals too correct? I should just assume that.

dx23 09-05-10 01:31 PM

Re: Feds Convict Texan for Selling a Gun to Illegal Alien With Texas Driver’s License
 
http://files.sharenator.com/wtf_is_t...-71815-535.jpg

covenant 09-05-10 02:33 PM

Re: Feds Convict Texan for Selling a Gun to Illegal Alien With Texas Driver’s License
 
Jeez, I get enough of this crap in my inbox...must it litter up my forums as well?

OldDude 09-05-10 04:58 PM

Re: Feds Convict Texan for Selling a Gun to Illegal Alien With Texas Driver’s License
 
So, in Texas, the Feds propose it would be illegal NOT to ask for ID and documentation because a gun might get sold to an illegal, but in Arizona, it would be racists and a violation of civil rights (therefore illegal) to ask, because it might hurt an illegal's feelings.

This is an obvious attempt by the administration to make us so fearful about illegals and immigration status, and asking and not asking, that we will support amnesty to make them all legal so we don't have to worry about it. Bring out the Magic legal Dust.

rw2516 09-05-10 07:01 PM

Re: Feds Convict Texan for Selling a Gun to Illegal Alien With Texas Driver’s License
 

Originally Posted by adrenaline78 (Post 10356112)
In many state Illegal's can get driver's licenses. So it's probably legit and not fake.

How would the vendor determine that the guy was an illegal? After all said illegal was in the states, had a driver's license, and was going to a gun show.


So the mexican cleaning crew at my store are probably illegals too correct? I should just assume that.

How do you identify a felon? Is it put on your driver's license? All politics aside, the guy did do what he was convicted of. If the wording of the law takes into account the reasonable belief that the person is legally allowed to purchase a gun then he got a raw deal.

NotThatGuy 09-05-10 07:05 PM

Re: Feds Convict Texan for Selling a Gun to Illegal Alien With Texas Driver’s License
 
If the gov't did its job and actually protected our borders this would most likely never happen. The gun seller didn't know that his customer was a criminal and living in this country illegally. What a sham.

OldDude 09-05-10 07:22 PM

Re: Feds Convict Texan for Selling a Gun to Illegal Alien With Texas Driver’s License
 
And instead of doing their jobs and deporting the illegal, they tailed him and used him to "trap" an American citizen. Even after he filled his purpose, and tried to buy a gun he is not allowed to buy (maybe that should be illegal), he STILL isn't deported.

Troy Stiffler 09-05-10 08:05 PM

Re: Feds Convict Texan for Selling a Gun to Illegal Alien With Texas Driver’s License
 

Originally Posted by OldDude (Post 10356302)
...that we will support amnesty to make them all legal so we don't have to worry about it.

Sounds good to me. But I don't see that happening.

Matt925 09-05-10 08:27 PM

Re: Feds Convict Texan for Selling a Gun to Illegal Alien With Texas Driver’s License
 
this topic exists dang

NotThatGuy 09-06-10 09:38 PM

Re: Feds Convict Texan for Selling a Gun to Illegal Alien With Texas Driver’s License
 

Originally Posted by OldDude (Post 10356302)
So, in Texas, the Feds propose it would be illegal NOT to ask for ID and documentation because a gun might get sold to an illegal, but in Arizona, it would be racists and a violation of civil rights (therefore illegal) to ask, because it might hurt an illegal's feelings.

This is an obvious attempt by the administration to make us so fearful about illegals and immigration status, and asking and not asking, that we will support amnesty to make them all legal so we don't have to worry about it. Bring out the Magic legal Dust.

They want as many new voters for 2012 as possible, regardless of their criminal past, blatant disregard for our laws, and complete disinterest in doing things the right way.

al_bundy 09-06-10 09:41 PM

Re: Feds Convict Texan for Selling a Gun to Illegal Alien With Texas Driver’s License
 

Originally Posted by rw2516 (Post 10355970)
How does a seller at a gun show know if the buyer is a convicted felon or not? Substitute felon for illegal immigrant in this situation, should the seller be prosecuted?
What about minors with fake I.D.s? Aren't business owners punished for selling alcohol or cigarettes to minors even if the minor had a fake ID stating they were old enough? A girl can have ID saying she's 18, but if she's 15 and you fuck her, you're going to jail.
How are the gun sellers being singled out?

A. It's illegal to sell firearms to illegal alien
B. The guy(s) sold firearms to illegal alien
C. What's the beef?

at a lot of places they electronically check a driver's license to make sure it's valid. usually to buy alcohol or cigs. not to much to ask for people to do this during a firearms transaction

Supermallet 09-06-10 09:48 PM

Re: Feds Convict Texan for Selling a Gun to Illegal Alien With Texas Driver’s License
 
Next time I'm in Texas I'm so stocking up on firearms. Not that i'm an illegal alien or anything. It just seems so much easier to buy them than it is here in CA.

NORML54601 09-07-10 03:18 AM

Re: Feds Convict Texan for Selling a Gun to Illegal Alien With Texas Driver’s License
 

Originally Posted by Suprmallet (Post 10357654)
Next time I'm in Texas I'm so stocking up on firearms. Not that i'm an illegal alien or anything. It just seems so much easier to buy them than it is here in CA.

You should go in brown-face and wear a sombrero.

wendersfan 09-07-10 08:27 AM

Re: Feds Convict Texan for Selling a Gun to Illegal Alien With Texas Driver’s License
 
Mod note: You've already been cautioned about posting "articles" sans comment.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:08 PM.


Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.