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Musulmans and the Occident Part II or Whatever

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Musulmans and the Occident Part II or Whatever

Old 02-16-15, 08:15 PM
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Re: Musulmans and the Occident Part II or Whatever

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
But seriously, with attacks like these wouldn't it be a little more responsible for the police to not immediately comment at all on a motive until they've actually had some time to investigate?
I think there may be a relatively new policy that the first order of business is to prevent a panic. Not realizing that pretending to know things that you really don't may reassure the public temporarily but eventually leads to cynicism.

Also, I guess it's possible that their white supremacist leanings had nothing to do with this, but I dunno.... Seems worth pursuing.
Old 02-16-15, 08:16 PM
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Re: Musulmans and the Occident Part II or Whatever

Back on topic: damn, this is good.

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/...-wants/384980/
Old 02-16-15, 08:46 PM
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Re: Musulmans and the Occident Part II or Whatever

If anything, ISIS will provide some great writing material for Homeland. If the writers haven't used it already.

Last edited by DVD Polizei; 02-16-15 at 08:56 PM.
Old 02-16-15, 08:56 PM
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Re: Musulmans and the Occident Part II or Whatever

Originally Posted by dork View Post
That is a good read.

Of important notice:

Tens of thousands of foreign Muslims are thought to have immigrated to the Islamic State. Recruits hail from France, the United Kingdom, Belgium, Germany, Holland, Australia, Indonesia, the United States, and many other places. Many have come to fight, and many intend to die.

Peter R. Neumann, a professor at King’s College London, told me that online voices have been essential to spreading propaganda and ensuring that newcomers know what to believe. Online recruitment has also widened the demographics of the jihadist community, by allowing conservative Muslim women—physically isolated in their homes—to reach out to recruiters, radicalize, and arrange passage to Syria. Through its appeals to both genders, the Islamic State hopes to build a complete society.
Eventually, and I feel like a warped needle stuck in a vinyl groove, the US and other "opposing" nations will have to just pull out completely, and let these freaky deekies have their own government. People will die. That's life. That's evolution. Let's stop worrying about what people like this are doing. The more we meddle into their affairs...the more they will encroach on our liberties.

If, one fine sunny day, they decide their little country isn't enough and decide to formulate war against us...we give'em the best taste of previous history when a country has gone to war with us. We hit them hard. We show them what annihilation really is.
Old 02-16-15, 09:06 PM
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Re: Musulmans and the Occident Part II or Whatever

Originally Posted by dork View Post
It's a very good read; thanks for sharing it.

One thing I think Wood fails to acknowledge, when he talks about whether ISIS is "un-Islamic," is that leaders who are using that phrase are being as much prescriptive as descriptive. Of course everyone recognizes that ISIS is following an interpretation of the Koran and acting consistently with that interpretation. The point in calling them un-Islamic is to drive a wedge between that interpretation and mainstream Islam. If this becomes a clash of religions -- if this comes down to Islam vs. everyone else -- then you are telling a billion Muslims that they must line up with ISIS. By contrast, if you tell them that ISIS is un-Islamic, then you are telling a billion Muslims that they should line up against ISIS. So "ISIS is un-Islamic" is a much better message to send than "ISIS is a legitimate strain of Islam, but we really think you should stick with a less violent interpretation of the Koran."
Old 02-16-15, 09:11 PM
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Re: Musulmans and the Occident Part II or Whatever

Originally Posted by dork View Post
That should be required reading for every member of Congress.
Old 02-16-15, 09:15 PM
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Re: Musulmans and the Occident Part II or Whatever

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
It's a very good read; thanks for sharing it.

One thing I think Wood fails to acknowledge, when he talks about whether ISIS is "un-Islamic," is that leaders who are using that phrase are being as much prescriptive as descriptive. Of course everyone recognizes that ISIS is following an interpretation of the Koran and acting consistently with that interpretation. The point in calling them un-Islamic is to drive a wedge between that interpretation and mainstream Islam. If this becomes a clash of religions -- if this comes down to Islam vs. everyone else -- then you are telling a billion Muslims that they must line up with ISIS. By contrast, if you tell them that ISIS is un-Islamic, then you are telling a billion Muslims that they should line up against ISIS. So "ISIS is un-Islamic" is a much better message to send than "ISIS is a legitimate strain of Islam, but we really think you should stick with a less violent interpretation of the Koran."
But isn't that a fairly silly, paternalistic approach---that non-Muslims, in their superiority, can shepherd Muslims towards a "proper" interpretation of their own religion---which Muslims are infinitely more familiar with?

I just think of myself, as a fairly religious person---if secular Muslim leaders tried to lecture me on the proper interpretation of Christianity, I'd laugh myself silly.
Old 02-16-15, 09:19 PM
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Re: Musulmans and the Occident Part II or Whatever

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
But isn't that a fairly silly, paternalistic approach---that non-Muslims, in their superiority, can shepherd Muslims towards a "proper" interpretation of their own religion---which Muslims are infinitely more familiar with?
The proclamations of ISIS as un-Islamic are not coming exclusively from non-Muslims; the same message is coming from leaders in the Muslim world as well.

And it is not a message of superiority or paternalism -- it's a message that says "You, average Muslim, are not my enemy. I am not coming to kill you, and you do not need to raise up arms against me."
Old 02-16-15, 09:33 PM
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Re: Musulmans and the Occident Part II or Whatever

You, Average Muslim, are not my enemy...unless you disagree with me.
Old 02-16-15, 09:50 PM
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Re: Musulmans and the Occident Part II or Whatever

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
You, Average Muslim, are not my enemy...unless you disagree with me.
More like "You, Average Muslim, are not my enemy .... unless you join up with the apocalyptic army bent on conquering me." How unreasonable.
Old 02-16-15, 10:03 PM
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Re: Musulmans and the Occident Part II or Whatever

Seems kind of exclusionary toward the above-average Muslims.
Old 02-16-15, 11:21 PM
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Re: Musulmans and the Occident Part II or Whatever

How long does the average religious extremist group last in that area of the world, anyways. I just have a sneaky suspicion in a year, we'll be hearing about some other group, who will have...done-out-done...ISIS by beheading 150 people, and maybe we'll even see some cannibalism to make things interesting.
Old 02-18-15, 08:47 PM
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Re: Musulmans and the Occident Part II or Whatever

Italy putting 5,000 troops on the streets:

Italy agrees to put 5,000 soldiers on the streets amid fears of Islamic State attack

Published: 08:32, Wed, February 18, 2015
By DION DASSANAYAKE

Italy have agreed to put almost 5,000 soliders on the streets amid fears of an IS attack. The troops will guard sensitive sites and targets, including in Rome where around 500 members of the military will be deployed.

In the Italian capital the soldiers will help guard Jewish schools, the city's synagogue and diplomatic residences. The measures, announced after a meeting of military and security officials, will be implemented until at least June.

Authorities consider Rome particularly sensitive because it is home to the Vatican.

In the past, Islamic militant websites have posted vague threats against Pope Francis and the Roman Catholic Church. The news comes amid rising fears of attacks by Islamic extremists in Italy after the beheadings of 21 Egyptian Christians by terror group IS. The atrocity, shown in a gruesome video released on Sunday, happened on the Libyan shore of the Mediterranean Sea which is a short boat ride from Italy.

Pope Francis earlier today labelled the film a "barbaric assassination" of innocents who he said were killed for their faith. Entitled "A Message Signed With Blood To The Nation Of The Cross", the IS video shows Coptic Christians handcuffed and dressed in orange jumpsuits. In the sickening five-minute clip their blood can later be seen filling the waters of the Mediterranean Sea.

Pope Francis called those who died in the propaganda film "martyrs". Speaking today, he said: "Their only words were: 'Jesus, help me!' They were killed simply for the fact that they were Christians.

"The blood of our Christian brothers and sisters is a testimony which cries out to be heard. "It makes no difference whether they be Catholics, Orthodox, Copts or Protestants. They are Christians."

There is rising in concern in Italy about IS establishing a presence on the shores of the Mediterranean just a few hundred miles from them.

They estimate that at least 200,000 refugees and immigrants are poised to soon cross into Sicily and Lampedusa, Italy’s southernmost territory.
Authorities fear that terrorists could covertly try to sneak into Italy with the thousands of migrants who are making their way across the Mediterranean.

Prior to the latest IS video emerging, Italy’s defense minister Roberta Pinotti told the Il Messaggero newspaper: "The risk is imminent. "We cannot wait any longer. Italy has national-defence needs and cannot have a caliphate ruling across the shores from us."
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...amic-militants
Old 02-18-15, 11:24 PM
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Re: Musulmans and the Occident Part II or Whatever

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
I just think of myself, as a fairly religious person---if secular Muslim leaders tried to lecture me on the proper interpretation of Christianity, I'd laugh myself silly.
It comes across the same to me as well... I personally would never say to someone of another faith "aren't you supposed to believe this and this...etc " How obnoxious... I wouldn't appreciate being on the receiving end of that either.
Old 02-22-15, 11:53 AM
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Re: Musulmans and the Occident Part II or Whatever

I guess a group called Al Shaboobs, Al Herboobs, or Al Shish Kabobs, released a video calling for attacks on Western Shopping Malls, and specifically, West Edmonton Mall. Seems like Canada is getting more attention lately.
Old 02-22-15, 05:32 PM
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Re: Musulmans and the Occident Part II or Whatever

I was reading reports that Obama refuses to label ISIS as "Islamic." Republicans and old white men are furious. If Obama agrees to call ISIS Islamic can we also call the KKK a Christian group?

Old 02-22-15, 08:09 PM
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Re: Musulmans and the Occident Part II or Whatever

Like we do with the Christian Identity movement?
Old 02-23-15, 02:48 AM
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Re: Musulmans and the Occident Part II or Whatever

Originally Posted by Why So Blu? View Post
I was reading reports that Obama refuses to label ISIS as "Islamic." Republicans and old white men are furious. If Obama agrees to call ISIS Islamic can we also call the KKK a Christian group?

They're specifically anti-Christain... but nice try
Old 02-23-15, 03:19 AM
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Re: Musulmans and the Occident Part II or Whatever

Originally Posted by Artman View Post
They're specifically anti-Christain... but nice try
Don't they burn giant crosses which partly represent their Christian religious background? I don't know if I would classify them as Christian religious extremists or terrorists, but I always assumed the vast majority was Christian, and that at certain points in time they stressed their white Christian roots.

I know that some hardcore neo-Nazi's don't believe in Christianity because 1) they put their race above everything else, including religion and 2) they view Christianity as a variant of Judaism. But then too, they can't be too anti-Christian because too many white supremacists consider themselves as Christians and they don't want to piss off any prospective recruits or allies.

Last edited by brayzie; 02-23-15 at 03:25 AM.
Old 02-23-15, 04:11 AM
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Re: Musulmans and the Occident Part II or Whatever

Originally Posted by brayzie View Post
I know that some hardcore neo-Nazi's don't believe in Christianity because 1) they put their race above everything else, including religion and 2) they view Christianity as a variant of Judaism.
I don't really have the time to get into it, but yes, regarding your 2nd point...Christianity is Jewish.. the first 2/3rds of The Bible (thru the gospels) is Jewish.
Old 02-23-15, 05:32 AM
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Re: Musulmans and the Occident Part II or Whatever

A good majority of the white supremacists (at least around here) are Odinists.
Old 02-23-15, 09:54 AM
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Re: Musulmans and the Occident Part II or Whatever

Old 02-23-15, 09:58 AM
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Re: Musulmans and the Occident Part II or Whatever

Originally Posted by Artman View Post
They're specifically anti-Christain... but nice try
Old 02-23-15, 10:01 AM
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Re: Musulmans and the Occident Part II or Whatever

Originally Posted by brayzie View Post
I know that some hardcore neo-Nazi's don't believe in Christianity because 1) they put their race above everything else, including religion and 2) they view Christianity as a variant of Judaism. But then too, they can't be too anti-Christian because too many white supremacists consider themselves as Christians and they don't want to piss off any prospective recruits or allies.
You don't get more hardcore than Adolph Hitler:

Originally Posted by Adolph Hitler
My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter.

In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross.
Old 02-23-15, 10:21 AM
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Re: Musulmans and the Occident Part II or Whatever




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