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Who truly gets the "credit" for CIVIL RIGHTS?

Old 08-20-10, 01:46 PM
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Re: Who truly gets the "credit" for CIVIL RIGHTS?

Originally Posted by BKenn01 View Post
Ok we have to give the Democrats the credit because all those Democrats who voted against it were really Republicans they just didnt know it yet.....
It's pretty silly to give either modern party credit for what people did 50 years ago.
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Old 08-20-10, 01:46 PM
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Re: Who truly gets the "credit" for CIVIL RIGHTS?

I don't think you can give credit to either party
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Old 08-20-10, 01:46 PM
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Re: Who truly gets the "credit" for CIVIL RIGHTS?

Bear Bryant.
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Old 08-20-10, 01:49 PM
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Re: Who truly gets the "credit" for CIVIL RIGHTS?

Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
I don't think you can give credit to either party
Then you underestimate me.
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Old 08-20-10, 01:50 PM
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Re: Who truly gets the "credit" for CIVIL RIGHTS?

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
You don't think the GOP deserves credit for getting the ball rolling in 1862?
The GOP of 1862 is not the GOP of the 1960s or the 2000s. Same can be said for any party that has existed over 100 years.

But yes, the GOP, in 1862, did help begin a movement towards Civil Rights.
However, the GOP claiming today to be the party of Lincoln is a bit of an affront to Lincoln (Like the tea parties claiming to be in the pattern of Jefferson).
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Old 08-20-10, 01:58 PM
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Re: Who truly gets the "credit" for CIVIL RIGHTS?

Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
I don't think you can give credit to either party
Not with their debt history, anyway.
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Old 08-20-10, 02:01 PM
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Re: Who truly gets the "credit" for CIVIL RIGHTS?

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
How do you figure that? The cotton gin is usually credited with the expansion of slavery in the early 19th Century.
That was the point - you can't fix a problem until it exists.
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Old 08-20-10, 02:15 PM
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Re: Who truly gets the "credit" for CIVIL RIGHTS?

Originally Posted by Decadance View Post
The GOP of 1862 is not the GOP of the 1960s or the 2000s. Same can be said for any party that has existed over 100 years.

But yes, the GOP, in 1862, did help begin a movement towards Civil Rights.
However, the GOP claiming today to be the party of Lincoln is a bit of an affront to Lincoln (Like the tea parties claiming to be in the pattern of Jefferson).

Why?
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Old 08-20-10, 02:22 PM
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Re: Who truly gets the "credit" for CIVIL RIGHTS?

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
That was the point - you can't fix a problem until it exists.
That's why I give credit to the first white dude who threw an African dude on a ship headed to the colonies. Without that guy, there would have never been a civil rights movement.
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Old 08-20-10, 02:23 PM
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Re: Who truly gets the "credit" for CIVIL RIGHTS?

Originally Posted by BKenn01 View Post
Why?
What do they have in common? Certainly not the view of states rights.
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Old 08-20-10, 02:32 PM
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Re: Who truly gets the "credit" for CIVIL RIGHTS?

Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
What do they have in common?
Attire, for one.
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Old 08-20-10, 02:44 PM
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Re: Who truly gets the "credit" for CIVIL RIGHTS?

Originally Posted by BKenn01 View Post
Ok we have to give the Democrats the credit because all those Democrats who voted against it were really Republicans they just didnt know it yet.....
Who gave *any* credit to Democrats? Seriously, partisan types (both on the left and the right) have to let go of their myopic, antiquated way of thinking if there's going to be any progress or rational discussion in this country. But then again, who's fooling who on that one...

And again, I'll stand by the statement that Southern Democrats from Reconstruction through the Reagan era were more adherant to conservative principles (as defined by late 20th/early 21st Century American society) than most Republicans these days. (Google "Solid South")

When was the last time a Democrat won a majority of Southern electoral votes? 1976... and only because the candidate was from Georgia.
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Old 08-20-10, 02:45 PM
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Re: Who truly gets the "credit" for CIVIL RIGHTS?

Originally Posted by Thor Simpson View Post
Attire, for one.

Thor's on a roll
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Old 08-20-10, 02:47 PM
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Re: Who truly gets the "credit" for CIVIL RIGHTS?

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
That was the point - you can't fix a problem until it exists.
well there was the Civil Rights Act of 1866 so that was a start
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Old 08-20-10, 02:54 PM
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Re: Who truly gets the "credit" for CIVIL RIGHTS?

Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
well there was the Civil Rights Act of 1866 so that was a start
And then there was the 1877 Compromise so that was the end.
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Old 08-20-10, 02:54 PM
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Re: Who truly gets the "credit" for CIVIL RIGHTS?

Of the 21 Democratic Senators who voted against the 1964 CRA, the only one I know of who switched to the GOP was Strom Thurmond. Harry Byrd of Virginia left the Democratic Party in 1970 and thereafter served as an Independent, but continued to caucus with the Democrats.
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Old 08-20-10, 03:02 PM
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Re: Who truly gets the "credit" for CIVIL RIGHTS?

From The Dixiecrat Myth

There weren’t many Republicans in the South prior to 1964, but that doesn’t mean the birth of the souther GOP was tied to “white racism.” That said, I am sure there were and are white racist southern GOP. No one would deny that. But it was the southern Democrats who were the party of slavery and, later, segregation. It was George Wallace, not John Tower, who stood in the southern schoolhouse door to block desegregation! The vast majority of Congressional GOP voted FOR the Civil Rights of 1964-65. The vast majority of those opposed to those acts were southern Democrats. Southern Democrats led to infamous filibuster of the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

The confusion arises from GOP Barry Goldwater’s vote against the ’64 act. He had voted in favor or all earlier bills and had led the integration of the Arizona Air National Guard, but he didn’t like the “private property” aspects of the ’64 law. In other words, Goldwater believed people’s private businesses and private clubs were subject only to market forces, not government mandates (“We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.”) His vote against the Civil Rights Act was because of that one provision was, to my mind, a principled mistake.

This stance is what won Goldwater the South in 1964, and no doubt many racists voted for Goldwater in the mistaken belief that he opposed Negro Civil Rights. But Goldwater was not a racist; he was a libertarian who favored both civil rights and property rights.

Switch to 1968.

Richard Nixon was also a proponent of Civil Rights; it was a CA colleague who urged Ike to appoint Warren to the Supreme Court; he was a supporter of Brown v. Board, and favored sending troops to integrate Little Rock High). Nixon saw he could develop a “Southern strategy” based on Goldwater’s inroads. He did, but Independent Democrat George Wallace carried most of the deep south in 68. By 1972, however, Wallace was shot and paralyzed, and Nixon began to tilt the south to the GOP. The old guard Democrats began to fade away while a new generation of Southern politicians became Republicans. True, Strom Thurmond switched to GOP, but most of the old timers (Fulbright, Gore, Wallace, Byrd etc etc) retired as Dems.

Why did a new generation white Southerners join the GOP? Not because they thought Republicans were racists who would return the South to segregation, but because the GOP was a “local government, small government” party in the old Jeffersonian tradition. Southerners wanted less government and the GOP was their natural home.

Jimmy Carter, a Civil Rights Democrat, briefly returned some states to the Democrat fold, but in 1980, Goldwater’s heir, Ronald Reagan, sealed this deal for the GOP. The new ”Solid South” was solid GOP.

BUT, and we must stress this: the new southern Republicans were *integrationist* Republicans who accepted the Civil Rights revolution and full integration while retaining their love of Jeffersonian limited government principles.
My point was -- and still is -- that you can't paint the Democratic Party of 2010 with the same brush as the Democratic Party of mid 20th Century. The Southern Democrats were STAUNCHLY CONSERVATIVE, as defined by modern conservatism anyhow.
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Old 08-20-10, 03:18 PM
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Re: Who truly gets the "credit" for CIVIL RIGHTS?

From what I see, most Blacks give the Democrats the credit.

But then again I have never heard a logical reason that most of them vote lock step for the Democrats.
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Old 08-20-10, 04:02 PM
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Re: Who truly gets the "credit" for CIVIL RIGHTS?

Originally Posted by BKenn01 View Post
From what I see, most Blacks give the Democrats the credit.

But then again I have never heard a logical reason that most of them vote lock step for the Democrats.
It's understandable.

Harry S. Truman - intergration of the military

LBJ - previously noted
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Old 08-20-10, 04:11 PM
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Re: Who truly gets the "credit" for CIVIL RIGHTS?

Something tells me that does not account for a great many black voters, who may have never heard of Harry Truman.
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Old 08-20-10, 04:28 PM
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Re: Who truly gets the "credit" for CIVIL RIGHTS?

When was the last time a Republican candidate for president received more than 12% of the black vote?
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Old 08-20-10, 04:36 PM
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Re: Who truly gets the "credit" for CIVIL RIGHTS?

Originally Posted by Thor Simpson View Post
Something tells me that does not account for a great many black voters, who may have never heard of Harry Truman.
But their parents or grandparents knew who Truman was.
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Old 08-20-10, 04:39 PM
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Re: Who truly gets the "credit" for CIVIL RIGHTS?

Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post
when was the last time a republican candidate for president received more than 12% of the black vote?
1868?
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Old 08-20-10, 04:41 PM
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Re: Who truly gets the "credit" for CIVIL RIGHTS?

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
But their parents or grandparents knew who Truman was.
It's not only blacks whose parents & grandparents have an influence on how people vote - whites too. I readily admit it. One of the principal reasons I vote Democratic is that my father & my grandfather (both sides) voted Democratic. I feel they would turn over in their grave if I voted for a Republican.

And I feel the Democratic Party best represents my interests - not as much as the party once did.
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Old 08-20-10, 04:43 PM
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Re: Who truly gets the "credit" for CIVIL RIGHTS?

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