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"Bush" Tax Cut Extensions

Old 07-22-10, 12:12 PM
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"Bush" Tax Cut Extensions

I figure this will get a lot of play in the next few months so might as well start a a thread.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...DDLETopStories

Two more Senate Democrats called for extending tax cuts for all earners—including those with the highest incomes—in what appears to be a breakdown of the party's consensus on the how to handle the expiration of Bush-era tax cuts.

Sen. Kent Conrad (D., N.D.) said in an interview Wednesday that Congress shouldn't allow taxes on the wealthy to rise until the economy is on a sounder footing.

In what appears to be a breakdown of party unity, two more Senate Democrats called for extending the Bush-era tax cuts to all earners, including those with highest incomes.

Sen. Ben Nelson (D., Neb.) said through a spokesman that he also supported extending all the expiring tax cuts for now, adding that he wanted to offset the impact on federal deficits as much as possible.

They are the second and third Senate Democrats to come out publicly in recent days in favor of extending all the tax breaks for the time being. Sen. Evan Bayh (D., Ind.) made similar comments last week.

"As a general rule, you don't want to be cutting spending or raising taxes in the midst of a downturn," Mr. Conrad said. "We know that very soon we've got to pivot and focus on the deficit. But it probably is too soon to cut spending or raise taxes."

The comments from the senators represent a departure from what appeared to be an emerging unified Democratic stance on the Bush tax cuts, which held that those for the wealthiest Americans should be allowed to expire.

President Barack Obama and most Democrats want to extend only the breaks benefiting taxpayers who make $250,000 or less.

Allowing breaks for higher earners to expire would push the top individual tax rate to 39.6% from 35%, and would raise rates on capital gains and dividends, too.

The breaks enacted in 2001 and 2003, which affect taxpayers of all income levels, expire at the end of this year.

Republicans and many business groups favor extending all the breaks, contending that increasing tax rates will hit small businesses hard. With U.S. employment still weak, some centrist Democrats are agreeing, prompted to change their stance by the still-ugly economic picture.

In addition to Messrs. Conrad, Nelson and Bayh, at least half a dozen House Democrats also have come out publicly in favor of postponing tax increases for higher earners.

"We're not creating jobs, and raising taxes now would not be a great idea," Rep. Michael McMahon, a New York Democrat, said this week.

Democrats can't afford to lose many of their own members on the issue. At a minimum, the internal party debate increases the odds that Democrats won't tackle the question of extending the tax cuts until after the November election.

Further delays will expose Democrats to Republican charges that they want to allow all the tax cuts to expire, which the Democrats deny. It is possible that any extension would be only temporary.

Rep. Sander Levin (D., Mich.), chairman of the tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee, said Wednesday that no decisions had been made on when to take up the tax cuts in the House, but he said the Senate "needs to act first."

Republicans are hoping the expiring Bush tax cuts become a bigger issue in the August recess, when lawmakers go home to talk with constituents. Already, House Republicans have begun pointing to the "ticking tax bomb" that will go off at year's end absent congressional action.

The GOP, for its part, runs some risks pushing for an extension of all the tax cuts, given the nation's sharpening focus on the budget deficit.

A one-year extension would cost at least $115 billion, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

Republicans have been pushing Congress to pay for any new spending to avoid increasing the deficit, but they argue tax cuts shouldn't be paid for.


So what's the official GOP excuse for not having to pay for the tax cuts? if the democrats push a 250k and below extension, will the GOP support it?
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Old 07-22-10, 12:18 PM
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Re: "Bush" Tax Cut Extensions

Obama would veto it and claim the GOP are being obstructionists, so I don't see any issue.
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Old 07-22-10, 12:33 PM
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Re: "Bush" Tax Cut Extensions

Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
Tax cuts for any person/business/company that has exported even one single job out of the U.S. should be repealed, and I mean fucking retroactivley repealed, Bub!
Well that's never going to happen in 100 million years so you better find another issue.
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Old 07-22-10, 12:37 PM
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Re: "Bush" Tax Cut Extensions

Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
Tax cuts for any person/business/company that has exported even one single job out of the U.S. should be repealed, and I mean fucking retroactivley repealed, Bub!
They're just trying to keep up with your own stated tax philosophy.
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Old 07-22-10, 12:39 PM
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Re: "Bush" Tax Cut Extensions

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Old 07-22-10, 01:25 PM
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Re: "Bush" Tax Cut Extensions

It will be great to hear the arguements for why this shouldn't be allowed to expire by those who say we need to balance the budget. Starving the beast doesn't work. At all.
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Old 07-22-10, 01:26 PM
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Re: "Bush" Tax Cut Extensions

Kent Conrad is right. Those Bush Tax Cuts on the wealthiest Americans created so many jobs during the 2000s, I can't imagine what the economy would look like without them!
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Old 07-22-10, 01:26 PM
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Re: "Bush" Tax Cut Extensions

Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
Tax cuts for any person/business/company that has exported even one single job out of the U.S. should be repealed, and I mean fucking retroactivley repealed, Bub!
I'm basically in agreement with that.
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Old 07-22-10, 01:29 PM
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Re: "Bush" Tax Cut Extensions

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Kent Conrad is right. Those Bush Tax Cuts on the wealthiest Americans created so many jobs during the 2000s, I can't imagine what the economy would look like without them!
Worse than if we didn't get the 2 stimuli. That's for sure.
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Old 07-22-10, 01:35 PM
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Re: "Bush" Tax Cut Extensions

Bush tax cuts are finally phased in, a staggering 52.5 percent of the benefits will go to the richest 5 percent of taxpayers.
I thought it was a greater percentage than that.
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Old 07-22-10, 01:44 PM
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Re: "Bush" Tax Cut Extensions

I love how it's called "benefits." As is the gov't is giving them something.
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Old 07-22-10, 01:48 PM
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Re: "Bush" Tax Cut Extensions

It is amazing that the Bush tax cuts that "didn't save the middle class anything" now as they expire represent a tax hit the Democrats know they can't survive if they let happen.
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Old 07-22-10, 02:08 PM
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Re: "Bush" Tax Cut Extensions

Won't the expiration of this raise the tax percentage of the lower 3 tax brackets as well?
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Old 07-22-10, 02:13 PM
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Re: "Bush" Tax Cut Extensions

I'll gladly pay more taxes to support more government spending.
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Old 07-22-10, 02:16 PM
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Re: "Bush" Tax Cut Extensions

Originally Posted by Thor Simpson View Post
Won't the expiration of this raise the tax percentage of the lower 3 tax brackets as well?
i believe it'd get rid of the 10% tax bracket so yes, everyone who pays taxes would be affected.
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Old 07-22-10, 02:16 PM
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Re: "Bush" Tax Cut Extensions

Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post
I'll gladly pay more taxes to support more government spending.
Do you? You can skip out on deductions you're elligible for if you want.
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Old 07-22-10, 02:23 PM
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Re: "Bush" Tax Cut Extensions

Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post
I'll gladly pay more taxes to support more government spending.
sure because at your age who cares about the future?
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Old 07-22-10, 02:24 PM
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Re: "Bush" Tax Cut Extensions

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Old 07-22-10, 02:32 PM
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Re: "Bush" Tax Cut Extensions

Cutting taxes on the wealthy created 3 millions jobs under Bush.

Without those tax cuts, the wealthy held back on spending and hiring. Only 23 million jobs were created under Bill Clinton.
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Old 07-22-10, 02:35 PM
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Re: "Bush" Tax Cut Extensions

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Cutting taxes on the wealthy created 3 millions jobs under Bush.

Without those tax cuts, the wealthy held back on spending and hiring. Only 23 million jobs were created under Bill Clinton.
Yup, looks like the stimulus has been far more effective so far. While it hasn't created too many permanent jobs, I heard it saved over 7 billion jobs in the first year.

Or maybe the Obama program is a victim of certain circumstances unrelated to the stimulus' impact. Couldn't possibly be the case with Bush and his tax cuts. I'm sure cutting taxes is what caused all these foreclosures...

Last edited by Th0r S1mpson; 07-22-10 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 07-22-10, 02:42 PM
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Re: "Bush" Tax Cut Extensions

Stimulus is beside the point. We are still under the Bush system. Stimulus and TARP just kept us from going cannibalistic like in The Road.

And no, the foreclosure crisis occurred at the end of the Bush presidency. Tough to blame the previous 7 years of anemic job growth on that. Nice try though. I know exactly what Sean Hannity will say tonight.
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Old 07-22-10, 02:43 PM
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Re: "Bush" Tax Cut Extensions

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Stimulus is beside the point.
...only because it isn't working.
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Old 07-22-10, 02:44 PM
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Re: "Bush" Tax Cut Extensions

OK Sean.
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Old 07-22-10, 02:49 PM
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Re: "Bush" Tax Cut Extensions

Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
i believe it'd get rid of the 10% tax bracket so yes, everyone who pays taxes would be affected.
Yes, the 10% bracket vanishes (so that income is taxed at 15%) and the marriage penalty returns to the 15% bracket.

The 25% and 28% bracket return to 28% and 31%, as well as the two top brackets increasing. Also the 15% (or lower) capital gains returns to 20%, and dividends are taxed as income (up to 39.6%). In additition the AMT has been fixed only year by year, and if they DON'T fix it, it will probably tax most people harder than the income tax.

Obama figures there are enough votes below $250K, if he continues the tax cuts for THEM, he can tax the shit out of the people over $250K with higher rates, penalties and surcharges. He probably has to keep that promise (at least to people below $250K) or lose big in the next election. I don't think the middle class would be receptive to "their party" bringing them a huge tax increase.
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Old 07-22-10, 03:00 PM
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Re: "Bush" Tax Cut Extensions

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
We are still under the Bush system.
Just curious when that ends
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