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CA Proposition 19: Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

Old 07-21-10, 11:59 AM
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CA Proposition 19: Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

This fall, Californians will vote to decriminalize marijuana.
  • Will it drive the liberal vote and help defeat Whitman and Fiorina?
  • What will be the response by the DEA if it passes?
  • Do you agree with Rep Rohrbacher that employers should still be able to make hiring/firing decisions based on a positive test?
  • If it passes, will it be a watershed moment for the rest of the country?

According to this article, CA lawmakers are non-committal to the proposition. Rep. Issa bases his opposition on the fact that a number of people have destroyed their houses with mold by planting too many plants. (!) Only three Dems have committed to supporting the proposition.

Hopefully, Jerry Brown of all people will get a clue:

Every year we get more and more marijuana and every year we find more guys with AK-47’s coming out of Mexico going into forests and growing more and more dangerous and losing control.


Polling seems positive at this point:

California’s Proposition 19, which will legalize, regulate and tax marijuana, is currently winning, 50 percent yes to 40 percent no, according to a new SurveyUSA poll of likely voters sponsored by CBS 5 KPIX-TV.

SurveyUSA 7/8-11
Prop. 19:
Certain Yes 50
Certain No 40
Not Certain 11
(Note: Because of rounding, poll does not always add up to 100 percent)

Link to wikipedia entry for the outline of the bill

Last edited by CRM114; 07-21-10 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 07-21-10, 12:11 PM
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Re: CA Proposition 19: Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

If this passes, how would this actually change things? Could somebody pop into 7-11 for a dime bag, for instance?
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Old 07-21-10, 12:13 PM
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Re: CA Proposition 19: Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

Yes, if the state government allows it. Do they sell beer in 7-11s in CA?
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Old 07-21-10, 12:49 PM
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Re: CA Proposition 19: Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

I doubt it. You still have federal prosecution, and I highly doubt 7-11 is going to want their stores raided.
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Old 07-21-10, 12:54 PM
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Re: CA Proposition 19: Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

Originally Posted by spainlinx0 View Post
I doubt it. You still have federal prosecution, and I highly doubt 7-11 is going to want their stores raided.
Yep. No major corporation is going to risk it. If this is going to come to fruition (and I highly doubt it), then it will be small fries who are willing to risk their freedom and either have a bankroll to defend themselves or have solid backing from orgs like the ACLU.
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Old 07-21-10, 01:15 PM
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Re: CA Proposition 19: Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Yes, if the state government allows it. Do they sell beer in 7-11s in CA?
You can get beer and hard alcohol about anywhere in California... Costco is the best place.

They practically sell beer in school vending machines here. Just not soda pop.
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Old 07-21-10, 01:36 PM
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Re: CA Proposition 19: Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
That'll only be until it gets challenged a couple of times, and upheld (it'll happen...eventually).

Then? You won't be able to stop it ever again. And mark my words, in the 10 years after the first state passes full legalization successfully, you will see pot become the #1 legal cash crop (it's by far the #1 illegal one), displacing corn.

Then, all this stupid bullshit will begin to ebb ("The Whore/War On Drugs").
And they win those challenges how? Until the federal laws are overturned your scenario is a fantasy.
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Old 07-21-10, 01:36 PM
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Re: CA Proposition 19: Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

Originally Posted by Thor Simpson View Post
You can get beer and hard alcohol about anywhere in California... Costco is the best place.

They practically sell beer in school vending machines here. Just not soda pop.
Well, beer is liquid bread.
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Old 07-21-10, 01:45 PM
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Re: CA Proposition 19: Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
That'll only be until it gets challenged a couple of times, and upheld (it'll happen...eventually).

Then? You won't be able to stop it ever again. And mark my words, in the 10 years after the first state passes full legalization successfully, you will see pot become the #1 legal cash crop (it's by far the #1 illegal one), displacing corn.

Then, all this stupid bullshit will begin to ebb ("The Whore/War On Drugs").
I wish you were right. I don't see it playing out the way you think it will. It would take a major jurisprudential change for a state to win against the feds here.

spainlinx is correct.

There is no way you're going to see a patchwork approach to legalized pot in this country. Certainly not now. Maybe 100 years ago when you had a robust 10th amendment. It's either going to be all or nothing.

Last edited by Red Dog; 07-21-10 at 01:48 PM.
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Old 07-21-10, 01:55 PM
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Re: CA Proposition 19: Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

I hope it passes, but I don't have much hope. Similar ballot initiatives have been a part of state elections for the better part of the last decade, and the 'think of the children' crowd always seems to prevail one way or another. But, this is California, so...

Nice to see the opposition's arguments haven't changed either. Mold?
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Old 07-21-10, 02:07 PM
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Re: CA Proposition 19: Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

If legalization passes, the critical mass will be too much for the feds to deal with. Hell, the medical marijuana has already become to much to handle except for a few token busts here and there. There is way too much money at play.
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Old 07-21-10, 02:19 PM
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Re: CA Proposition 19: Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

I don't think I'd call them token busts. The state already lost against the Feds on medical marijuana at the SCt and that was just a short time ago. And if anything, the swaps of Roberts and Alito for Rehnquist and O'Connor only serve to strengthen the federal side on this issue: you've only got one realistic vote for the state and that's Thomas. Sotomayor and Kagan would certainly echo Souter and Stevens on the federal side.
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Old 07-21-10, 02:36 PM
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Re: CA Proposition 19: Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

How many shops are open right now in CA?
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Old 07-21-10, 04:15 PM
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Re: CA Proposition 19: Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
If legalization passes, the critical mass will be too much for the feds to deal with. Hell, the medical marijuana has already become to much to handle except for a few token busts here and there. There is way too much money at play.
Legalization is not on the table, as I understand it. Only decriminalization. may seem trivial, but it isn't.

Anyway, I'm all for it. I don't think you'll see much change if it passes, though. But I don't know all about the bill. Would be interesting if you could walk into any dispencery without a prescription and get a bag of weed. Is that what this would do? It probably only means that you won't get busted in your own house by the state with under a certain amount, but you still can't grow or buy it. That's my guess. Anyone know?

Do you agree with Rep Rohrbacher that employers should still be able to make hiring/firing decisions based on a positive test?
Absolutely. Should I be able to hire and fire based on a BAC level over 0.0?
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Old 07-21-10, 04:16 PM
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Re: CA Proposition 19: Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

Yes but perhaps people don't want to be in fear of getting arrested day in and day out. At some point, it's either being delivered to your house or you are transporting it.
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Old 07-21-10, 04:19 PM
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Re: CA Proposition 19: Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

kvrdave - It would be up to the local government. "Local government may authorize the retail sale of up to 1 ounce of marijuana per transaction, and regulate the hours and location of the business." But better yet, "May grow marijuana at a private residence in a space of up to 25 square feet for personal use."

As for drug testing, does anyone drug test for alcohol? BAC is meaningless. We are talking about testing for traces from two weeks ago.
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Old 07-21-10, 04:25 PM
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Re: CA Proposition 19: Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
Legalization is not on the table, as I understand it. Only decriminalization. may seem trivial, but it isn't.

And honestly, I don't see why CA would do it unless they could tax it, and that fucked-up state certainly needs the cash.
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Old 07-21-10, 04:41 PM
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Re: CA Proposition 19: Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

Yeah, at first I thought this was a decent plan. Then I found out it wouldn't be regulated and taxed at all. Just overlooked. I know there are cost savings associated with that, but it's not the revenue giant that I'd hoped for when I first heard about the bill. It would result in fewer SWAT raids of my neighbor's house. I guess that's good?
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Old 07-21-10, 04:41 PM
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Re: CA Proposition 19: Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
Legalization is not on the table, as I understand it. Only decriminalization. may seem trivial, but it isn't.

Anyway, I'm all for it. I don't think you'll see much change if it passes, though. But I don't know all about the bill. Would be interesting if you could walk into any dispencery without a prescription and get a bag of weed. Is that what this would do? It probably only means that you won't get busted in your own house by the state with under a certain amount, but you still can't grow or buy it. That's my guess. Anyone know?


Absolutely. Should I be able to hire and fire based on a BAC level over 0.0?
Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
kvrdave - It would be up to the local government. "Local government may authorize the retail sale of up to 1 ounce of marijuana per transaction, and regulate the hours and location of the business." But better yet, "May grow marijuana at a private residence in a space of up to 25 square feet for personal use."

As for drug testing, does anyone drug test for alcohol? BAC is meaningless. We are talking about testing for traces from two weeks ago.
Yup, seems a little different to me. If you are coming to an interview drunk, that's one thing. However if you smoked 2 weeks ago, and only smoke on the weekends (like a social drinker) it just seems stupid to deny based on a test. However I am under no delusion that employers won't continue to test as they do now.
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Old 07-21-10, 05:11 PM
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Re: CA Proposition 19: Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

Originally Posted by Thor Simpson View Post
Yeah, at first I thought this was a decent plan. Then I found out it wouldn't be regulated and taxed at all. Just overlooked. I know there are cost savings associated with that, but it's not the revenue giant that I'd hoped for when I first heard about the bill. It would result in fewer SWAT raids of my neighbor's house. I guess that's good?
From my link:

"Allows the collection of taxes specifically to allow local governments to raise revenue or to offset any costs associated with marijuana regulation."

It has TAX in the title of the bill.
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Old 07-21-10, 05:40 PM
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Re: CA Proposition 19: Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
kvrdave - It would be up to the local government. "Local government may authorize the retail sale of up to 1 ounce of marijuana per transaction, and regulate the hours and location of the business." But better yet, "May grow marijuana at a private residence in a space of up to 25 square feet for personal use."

As for drug testing, does anyone drug test for alcohol? BAC is meaningless. We are talking about testing for traces from two weeks ago.
Originally Posted by spainlinx0 View Post
Yup, seems a little different to me. If you are coming to an interview drunk, that's one thing. However if you smoked 2 weeks ago, and only smoke on the weekends (like a social drinker) it just seems stupid to deny based on a test. However I am under no delusion that employers won't continue to test as they do now.
My biggest problem with legalization/decriminalization is that there isn't a good test to find out when a person smoked, whether it was at lunch or 2 weeks ago. But I tend to side with employers there. If you want to smoke, you may need to be a big boy and accept some of the consequences that go along with it. Some people balk at that, but if an accident happens by an employee at Home Depot and it is shown that he tests positive, I doubt you'd be okay with holding Home Depot harmless.
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Old 07-21-10, 05:40 PM
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Re: CA Proposition 19: Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

yeah, marijuana is already decriminalized in california. this is for legalizing it (regulating, controlling, and taxing it). not sure where the confusion is.
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Old 07-21-10, 05:45 PM
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Re: CA Proposition 19: Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
My biggest problem with legalization/decriminalization is that there isn't a good test to find out when a person smoked, whether it was at lunch or 2 weeks ago. But I tend to side with employers there. If you want to smoke, you may need to be a big boy and accept some of the consequences that go along with it. Some people balk at that, but if an accident happens by an employee at Home Depot and it is shown that he tests positive, I doubt you'd be okay with holding Home Depot harmless.
that's what's fucked up about it. if i don't want to lose my job, i have to resort to alcohol or cigarettes as alternatives, which are much more harmful than cannabis. that's why i would hope that employers wouldn't fire based off a positive test for cannabis, because that person could have smoked in the privacy of their own home on the weekend 3 weeks ago.

im with you in that i wish there was a way to test if you're stoned on the spot, but 'til then, it's just such a messed up situation.
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Old 07-21-10, 05:53 PM
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Re: CA Proposition 19: Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

I happened by Ratigan on MSNBC while flipping channels a while ago, and he was talking to the guy in Oakland who is going to open massive marijuana farms under some new Oakland city ordinance(wasn't clear on that). Ratigan said 'the fact that we are having this conversation on MSNBC in the middle of the afternoon is pretty big stuff in and of itself'. I agree with him there.

Too many lives have already been destroyed or ended over a plant that grows up out of the ground, one of the most beneficial and useful plants known to mankind. Our nation was formed with laws compelling farmers to grow it, now we kill people, have government paramilitary home invasion squads kicking in doors(imagine explaining that to our Founding Fathers), and ruin their lives over having a little of it.

Most people think we're so advanced and free in our society...
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Old 07-21-10, 05:55 PM
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Re: CA Proposition 19: Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

Think something like this would pass in Pennsylvania or New York?

I think it'll take a few more big states to convince the feds to change things.
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