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Massachusetts residents to give up their vote for president

Old 07-20-10, 11:28 AM
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Massachusetts residents to give up their vote for president

http://www.boston.com/news/local/bre...ay_join_e.html

If every single (voting aged) resident of the state of Massachusetts votes for candidate X and candidate Y wins the national popular vote, candidate Y gets all of MA's electoral votes.

Now, what happens if a Republican wins the national popular vote, but wins the electoral vote by less than 12 (the current number of MA electoral votes)?
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Old 07-20-10, 11:30 AM
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Re: Massachusetts residents to give up their vote for president

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
Now, what happens if a Republican wins the national popular vote, but wins the electoral vote by less than 12 (the current number of MA electoral votes)?
Mass legislature has shown that they don't care about changing the rules so my guess is that they'd do that again.
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Old 07-20-10, 11:35 AM
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Re: Massachusetts residents to give up their vote for president

That's just silly.
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Old 07-20-10, 11:37 AM
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Re: Massachusetts residents to give up their vote for president

Liberal ideas are great until they benefit a conservative.
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Old 07-20-10, 11:37 AM
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Re: Massachusetts residents to give up their vote for president

This has been talked about before as a means of circumventing the electoral college. It's constitutional, but not advisable to go out on your own. It's rather silly to do this until you have an interstate compact (with signatories adding up to 270).
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Old 07-20-10, 11:37 AM
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Re: Massachusetts residents to give up their vote for president

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
http://www.boston.com/news/local/bre...ay_join_e.html

If every single (voting aged) resident of the state of Massachusetts votes for candidate X and candidate Y wins the national popular vote, candidate Y gets all of MA's electoral votes.

Now, what happens if a Republican wins the national popular vote, but wins the electoral vote by less than 12 (the current number of MA electoral votes)?

Then of course the Massachusetts legislature will declare the law invalid and cast its electoral votes for the Dem, pontificating grandly on the genius of the electoral college system.
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Old 07-20-10, 11:38 AM
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Re: Massachusetts residents to give up their vote for president

Very interesting concept. Microwaving ice cream would be similarly interesting.
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Old 07-20-10, 11:38 AM
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Re: Massachusetts residents to give up their vote for president

Originally Posted by Thor Simpson View Post
Very interesting concept. Microwaving ice cream would be similarly interesting.
That's how they make milk, I believe.
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Old 07-20-10, 11:45 AM
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Re: Massachusetts residents to give up their vote for president

Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
This has been talked about before as a means of circumventing the electoral college. It's constitutional, but not advisable to go out on your own. It's rather silly to do this until you have an interstate compact (with signatories adding up to 270).
I certainly this idea would be a great inspiration for the citizens of MA to vote.
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Old 07-20-10, 11:51 AM
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Re: Massachusetts residents to give up their vote for president

Originally Posted by Joe Camel View Post
They'll have 73 once Mass passes the law...
I assume that the PV-allocation is only triggered once states signing on and adding up to 270 is reached because given the way those states usually go, it would be a remarkably stupid thing to do.
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Old 07-20-10, 11:52 AM
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Re: Massachusetts residents to give up their vote for president

Originally Posted by Joe Camel View Post
They'll have 73 once Mass passes the law...
Illinois, New Jersey, Hawaii, Maryland, and Washington have already adopted the legislation, according to the National Popular Vote campaign's website.
You have to go back to 1988 to see a Republican candidate getting the electors of any one of those states.
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Old 07-20-10, 11:52 AM
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Re: Massachusetts residents to give up their vote for president

Can't the laws have a condition that they don't go into effective until there are enough states that have similar measures to make up 270 votes?
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Old 07-20-10, 12:40 PM
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Re: Massachusetts residents to give up their vote for president

Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post
I certainly this idea would be a great inspiration for the citizens of MA to vote.
You may certainly this idea, but I not.
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Old 07-20-10, 12:45 PM
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Re: Massachusetts residents to give up their vote for president

I certainly the whole idea!
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Old 07-20-10, 01:05 PM
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Re: Massachusetts residents to give up their vote for president

Originally Posted by Cheato View Post
You may certainly this idea, but I not.
I didn't say I liked it.
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Old 07-20-10, 01:44 PM
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Re: Massachusetts residents to give up their vote for president

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
You have to go back to 1988 to see a Republican candidate getting the electors of any one of those states.
and that is precisely a reason these states want to move to this system of awarding their EVs to the winner of the popular vote. Right now, general election candidates are ignoring these mostly blue states/red states and only focusing on "battleground" states because they have locked up the "solid blue/red state's EVs." These states have basically been "decided" and the voters in these states do not see the candidates live, do not have advertisements/mailers, etc. One can argue that they are as a group shut out from process as everything is focused on those few battleground states.
If you move to awarding EVs based on the nationwide popular vote count, there is an incentive for candidates to maximize supporters in population centers and thus they may campaign in California or New York or Texas in order to win the popular vote. One can even argue that Republican supporters in California or Massachusetts or Democrats in Texas or Nebraska will have more say than they currently have now. No plan is perfect but this one has more merit than people here are giving it credit.
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Old 07-20-10, 01:51 PM
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Re: Massachusetts residents to give up their vote for president

Being a battleground state is overrated, unless you like getting bombarded with campaign commercials and phone calls. My state wasn't for many cycles and it was in '08. '08 sucked.
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Old 07-20-10, 01:55 PM
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Re: Massachusetts residents to give up their vote for president

Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
Being a battleground state is overrated
I certainly this.
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Old 07-20-10, 02:09 PM
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Re: Massachusetts residents to give up their vote for president

but the point is that CA, NY, IL, TX, MA, etc are ignored because they are not currently battleground states. The issues that may be important in these states may not be addressed, people do not get as involved, etc. Candidates may go to these large states for fundraisers but they aren't campaigning there because the election there has been pretty much decided. A compact that awards that state's EVs based on the popular vote winner may force a candidate to campaign, spend time and money in a particular state that is currently being ignored.
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Old 07-20-10, 02:14 PM
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Re: Massachusetts residents to give up their vote for president

So they're ignored. This isn't 1824. Candidates have national exposure across a variety of media. It's remarkably easy for a voter to get information on candidates if he or she wants it. The physical presence of the candidate in their state is completely unnecessary.

Again take my state. Obama and McCain making visits to my state did nothing to change my perceptions of them and did not give me greater information than I already possessed. Their advertising on television and phone calling only served to annoy the hell out of me (and most others I would suspect). Furthermore, my state had to spend a substantial sum of money for local and state police security for these candidate visits.

There are some valid reasons for wanting a PV being the way to decide the presidency. Forcing exposure in non-battleground states is not one of them IMO.

Last edited by Red Dog; 07-20-10 at 02:20 PM.
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Old 07-20-10, 02:19 PM
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Re: Massachusetts residents to give up their vote for president

Originally Posted by chowderhead View Post
and that is precisely a reason these states want to move to this system of awarding their EVs to the winner of the popular vote.
If Massachusetts awards their electoral votes to whichever candidate wins the majority of the national vote, a candidate would be a moron to spend a single penny on and make a single appearance in Massachusetts.
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Old 07-20-10, 02:33 PM
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Re: Massachusetts residents to give up their vote for president

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
Liberal ideas are great until they benefit a conservative.
How could this do anything but benefit conservatives? MA hasn't gone for a Republican since 1984, but under this system would have given the EVs to the Republican twice since then.
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Old 07-20-10, 02:42 PM
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Re: Massachusetts residents to give up their vote for president

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
How could this do anything but benefit conservatives? MA hasn't gone for a Republican since 1984, but under this system would have given the EVs to the Republican twice since then.
Sounds like it would have benefited everyone twice then.
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Old 07-20-10, 02:43 PM
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Re: Massachusetts residents to give up their vote for president

Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
So they're ignored. This isn't 1824. Candidates have national exposure across a variety of media. It's remarkably easy for a voter to get information on candidates if he or she wants it. The physical presence of the candidate in their state is completely unnecessary.

Again take my state. Obama and McCain making visits to my state did nothing to change my perceptions of them and did not give me greater information than I already possessed. Their advertising on television and phone calling only served to annoy the hell out of me (and most others I would suspect). Furthermore, my state had to spend a substantial sum of money for local and state police security for these candidate visits.

There are some valid reasons for wanting a PV being the way to decide the presidency. Forcing exposure in non-battleground states is not one of them IMO.
targeted states saw increased/record turnout as campaigns did voter registrations, phone banking, GOTV, etc. People may say they don't like it but it works.
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Old 07-20-10, 02:49 PM
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Re: Massachusetts residents to give up their vote for president

That happened because you had a historical first - a phenomenon in 2008 who also had the biggest campaign war chest ever assembled. Also, what were the election turnouts in states not visited such as the ones you mention. Were they not also higher?

But then I'm also not one who thinks that more people voting is necessarily a good thing.

Last edited by Red Dog; 07-20-10 at 02:51 PM.
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