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Paul Ryan's "Roadmap"

Old 07-12-10, 05:40 PM
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Paul Ryan's "Roadmap"

Have yall heard about this?

http://www.roadmap.republicans.budget.house.gov/

He's the ranking Republican on the budget committee and he's come up with a budget plan that the CBO has said would get rid of deficits and made SS and Medicare sound.

The economy would be considerably stronger under the proposal (as analyzed by CBO) than it would be under the alternative fiscal scenario. Real gross national product per person would be about 70 percent higher in 2058 under the proposal than under the alternative fiscal scenario.
All the details of the plan are on that site.


Major Plan Components.

▫ Health Care. The plan ensures universal access to affordable health insurance by restructuring the tax code, allowing all Americans to secure affordable health plans that best suits their needs, and shifting the ownership of health coverage away from the government and employers to individuals.

- Provides a refundable tax credit – $2,300 for individuals and $5,700 for families – to purchase coverage in any State, and keep it with them if they move or change jobs.

- Establishes transparency in health care price and quality data, so this critical information is readily available before an individual needs health services.

- Modernizes Medicaid and strengthens the health care safety net by reforming high-risk pools, giving States maximum flexibility to tailor Medicaid programs to the specific needs of their populations. Allows Medicaid recipients to take part in the same variety of options by using the tax credit to purchase high-quality care.

▫ Medicare. The Roadmap secures Medicare for current beneficiaries, while making common-sense reforms to keep it solvent for the long term.

- Preserves the existing Medicare program for those 55 or older.

- For those currently under 55 – as they become Medicare-eligible – creates a Medicare payment averaging $11,000 per year when fully phased in. Adjusts the payment for inflation, and pegs it to income, with low-income individuals receiving greater support. Provides risk adjustment, so those with greater medical needs receive a higher payment.

- In addition to the Medicare payment, establishes and fully funds Medical Savings Accounts [MSAs] for low-income beneficiaries (to cover out-of-pocket costs), while continuing to allow all beneficiaries, regardless of income, to set up tax-free MSAs.

- Makes Medicare permanently solvent, based on Congressional Budget Office [CBO] estimates and consultation with the Office of the Actuary of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services.

▫ Social Security. The proposal saves and strengthens this important retirement program and makes it sustainable for the long term.

- Preserves the existing Social Security program for those 55 or older.

- Offers workers under 55 the option of investing over one third of their current Social Security taxes into personal retirement accounts, similar to the Thrift Savings Plan available to Federal employees. Includes a property right so they can pass on these assets to their heirs, and a guarantee that individuals will not lose a dollar they contribute to their accounts, even after inflation.

- Makes the program permanently solvent, according to the CBO, by combining a more realistic measure of growth in Social Security’s initial benefits, with a gradual, modest increase in the retirement age, consistent with Americans’ improving lifespans.

▫ Tax Reform. This plan offers an alternative to today’s needlessly complex and inefficient tax code, providing the option of a simplified mechanism that better promotes and rewards work, saving, and investment.

- Provides taxpayers a choice of how to pay their income taxes – through existing law, or through a highly simplified code that fits on a postcard with just two rates and virtually no special tax deductions, credits, or exclusions (except the health care tax credit).

- Simplifies tax rates to 10 percent on income up to $100,000 for joint filers, and $50,000 for single filers; and 25 percent on taxable income above these amounts. Also includes a generous standard deduction and personal exemption (totaling $39,000 for a family of four).

- Eliminates the alternative minimum tax [AMT].

- Promotes saving by eliminating taxes on interest, capital gains, and dividends; also eliminates the death tax.

- Replaces the corporate income tax – currently the second highest in the industrialized world – with a border-adjustable business consumption tax of 8.5 percent. This new rate is roughly half that of the rest of the industrialized world.

▫ Job Training. The Roadmap helps the Nation’s workforce prepare for success in the global economy by transforming 49 job training programs, scattered across eight agencies, into a flexible, dynamic program focused on results, and accompanied by clear measures of transparency and accountability. The plan requires the development of performance measures, and gives each State the option to consolidate funding into one program, if such an approach can be shown improve outcomes and achieve job training goals.

Any thoughts on it?
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Old 07-12-10, 05:44 PM
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Re: Paul Ryan's "Roadmap"

Would have been much better 8 months ago, but it's worth a look.

I don't like the idea of calculating taxes twice to see which is better for me, but it sounds like the second calculation would be incredibly fast.

This could be devastating to the economy and job numbers when it comes to accountants and tax software.

Last edited by Th0r S1mpson; 07-12-10 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 07-12-10, 06:12 PM
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Re: Paul Ryan's "Roadmap"

"Death tax"



I didn't realize that nonsense was taken seriously any more. Well I guess I'm not surprised though, the average voter does believe anything they are told to.

The plan is a carefully worded giveaway for the rich, like most 'conservative plans' are. It highlights 'look what you working people will get!' While glossing over 'corporations get a gold mine, and so do the wealthy'. Man we're screwed as a nation...

Unless the astoundingly jacked up prices of prescription medication, hospital/medical equipment, and hospital corporations are specifically addressed as the first priority, no one is serious about cutting costs in Medicare/Medicaid or health care. Nor are they serious about making Medicare/caid sustainable.

Oh yeah and 'CBO estimates'. That just never loses the funny!
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Old 07-12-10, 06:27 PM
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Re: Paul Ryan's "Roadmap"

Originally Posted by Thor Simpson View Post
Would have been much better 8 months ago, but it's worth a look.
Actually, I think his "road map" has been around for more than a year. While I do believe he continues to tweak it, it is becoming newsworthy this week for some unknown reason.
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Old 07-12-10, 06:35 PM
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Re: Paul Ryan's "Roadmap"

sounds too good to be true.
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Old 07-12-10, 06:48 PM
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Re: Paul Ryan's "Roadmap"

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
sounds too good to be true.
That's what they said about Edible Crotchless Gummy Panties.
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Old 07-12-10, 07:01 PM
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Re: Paul Ryan's "Roadmap"

For context on that 'plan'.

If the plan was serious about cutting costs of medicare/caid, it would be what I said above as a first priority, since those two programs are the lion's share of our entire federal budget. That would slash costs incredibly, like Leatherface taking a chainsaw to the federal budget.

Obviously that above 'plan' is more bullshit from a career politician, not someone who wants to actually make an attempt to deal with the core issues/problems, and make a legitimate change for the good of the country. He wants rich people to give him more money for his campaigns and support his legislative endeavors via lobbying, so he's going to bat for them yet again. "Tax cuts for the rich and we'll all be saved! Make the rich even more money and we'll all be saved!"

As it stands, Obama's own 'Debt Commission' has a more realistic evaluation of our fiscal state of affairs. Almost sure to fail in short. "Cut taxes for the rich! Make the rich more money!" aren't a part of what they propose of course.

Obama's debt commission warns of fiscal 'cancer'

By Dan Balz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, July 12, 2010

BOSTON -- The co-chairmen of President Obama's debt and deficit commission offered an ominous assessment of the nation's fiscal future here Sunday, calling current budgetary trends a cancer "that will destroy the country from within" unless checked by tough action in Washington.

The two leaders -- former Republican senator Alan Simpson of Wyoming and Erskine Bowles, White House chief of staff under President Bill Clinton -- sought to build support for the work of the commission, whose recommendations due later this year are likely to spark a fierce debate in Congress.

"There are many who hope we fail," Simpson said at the closing session of the National Governors Association annual meeting. He called the 18-member commission "good people with deep, deep differences" who know the odds of success "are rather harrowing."

Bowles said that unlike the current economic crisis, which was largely unforeseen before it hit in fall 2008, the coming fiscal calamity is staring the country in the face. "This one is as clear as a bell," he said. "This debt is like a cancer."

The commission leaders said that, at present, federal revenue is fully consumed by three programs: Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. "The rest of the federal government, including fighting two wars, homeland security, education, art, culture, you name it, veterans -- the whole rest of the discretionary budget is being financed by China and other countries," Simpson said.

"We can't grow our way out of this," Bowles said. "We could have decades of double-digit growth and not grow our way out of this enormous debt problem. We can't tax our way out. . . . The reality is we've got to do exactly what you all do every day as governors. We've got to cut spending or increase revenues or do some combination of that."


Bowles pointed to steps taken recently by the new coalition government in Britain, which also faces an acute budgetary problem, as a guide to what the commission might use in its recommendations. That would mean about three-quarters of the deficit reduction would be accomplished through spending cuts, and the remainder with additional revenue.

Most Republicans in Congress are opposed to any tax increases, which has made the work of the commission far more difficult. Bowles and Simpson appealed for support to the governors, who have been forced by their states' constitutions to balance their budgets with deep spending cuts and, in many cases, tax increases.

Bowles and Simpson said the commission would have had a stronger hand politically had it been created by Congress, rather than through an executive order. Simpson was pointed in his criticism of seven Republicans who once co-sponsored such a measure but who helped block it in the Senate.

"As far as I can discern, it was to stick it to the president," Simpson said. "That's where we are in Washington." He later added that all seven "have now come to us to say, 'We're ready to help.' "

The presentation by Simpson and Bowles, which included repeated statements of determination to produce a bipartisan set of recommendations, drew praise from the governors.

"I don't know that I've every heard a gloomier picture painted that created more hope for me," said Arkansas Gov. Mike Beebe (D).

Washington Gov. Chris Gregoire (D) said that many governors fear that the commission's recommendations will result in more demands on the states.

Bowles, who noted that the 1997 balanced-budget agreement between the Clinton White House and the Republican-controlled Congress included many provisions that put more burdens on the states, said that wasn't likely.

"I don't think you're going to see a lot of devolution coming from us because the states are all broke," he said.

Simpson also warned that the November elections could add another wild card to the work of the commission. "I have no idea what's going to happen on Election Day but it's going to be disruptive . . .," he said. "It's going to be a big wake-up call around the whole United States. I have no idea where it's going, but thank heaven we have a month then to work through the wreckage."
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Old 07-12-10, 07:06 PM
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Re: Paul Ryan's "Roadmap"

What is "rich", out of curiosity? When I hear most complaining about "rich people", it seems to refer to "anyone who makes at least $1 more than I do"
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Old 07-12-10, 07:18 PM
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Re: Paul Ryan's "Roadmap"

Originally Posted by wildcatlh View Post
What is "rich", out of curiosity? When I hear most complaining about "rich people", it seems to refer to "anyone who makes at least $1 more than I do"
People who have to worry about the taxes paid on interest, capital gains, and dividends for starters.

Yes, I pay taxes on the minuscule interest my CDs and savings account pays, but it's not going to be any measurable benefit to me if I don't have to pay it anymore, but the millions of minuscule amounts the average Americans are paying would make a real impact if they were to disappear from the federal budget.
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Old 07-12-10, 07:30 PM
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Re: Paul Ryan's "Roadmap"

Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
Is too good to be true. Or realistic.
I think so as well. But so was Obama's plan, so I'm game for trying this one as well.
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Old 07-12-10, 09:54 PM
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Re: Paul Ryan's "Roadmap"

Originally Posted by wildcatlh View Post
What is "rich", out of curiosity? When I hear most complaining about "rich people", it seems to refer to "anyone who makes at least $1 more than I do"

Thats because generally thats who they mean
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Old 07-13-10, 09:16 AM
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Re: Paul Ryan's "Roadmap"

Of all the Senators and Congressmen that I've seen on tv, I find that Paul Ryan usually sounds the most intelligent. He's one of the few who seems to care about this country's long term economic future.
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Old 07-13-10, 09:34 AM
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Re: Paul Ryan's "Roadmap"

Originally Posted by wildcatlh View Post
What is "rich", out of curiosity? When I hear most complaining about "rich people", it seems to refer to "anyone who makes at least $1 more than I do"
And people who don't know what "rich" means are the majority for most never encounter a truly rich person.

It's pretty obvious when you drive past an area with 5000+ sq foot houses with a Porsche Cayenne and a Benz in the driveway, isn't it? These people wouldn't even notice an increase in taxes. At all.
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Old 07-13-10, 09:59 AM
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Re: Paul Ryan's "Roadmap"

The problem with private accounts - what happens if they lose money?

'Modest increase in the retirement age.' What does modest mean?
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Old 07-13-10, 10:03 AM
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Re: Paul Ryan's "Roadmap"

Ryan says that he'll GUARANTEE you don't lose anything you put in. Gee, thanks! So if I put in $300K and I retire, I'll get my $300K back! Never mind guaranteeing seniors a livable stipend for their remaining years. Go back to work, gramps!
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Old 07-13-10, 10:06 AM
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Re: Paul Ryan's "Roadmap"

I wonder if the CBO estimates have taken into account that guarantee?

Sounds like Bush II.
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Old 07-13-10, 10:11 AM
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Re: Paul Ryan's "Roadmap"

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Ryan says that he'll GUARANTEE you don't lose anything you put in. Gee, thanks! So if I put in $300K and I retire, I'll get my $300K back! Never mind guaranteeing seniors a livable stipend for their remaining years. Go back to work, gramps!
Am I guaranteed I'll get back what i put into SS?
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Old 07-13-10, 10:14 AM
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Re: Paul Ryan's "Roadmap"

You could put your FICA contributions in a basic savings acct (even with today's rock bottom interest rates), and do better than what SS offers.
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Old 07-13-10, 10:16 AM
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Re: Paul Ryan's "Roadmap"

As I understand it, the CBO estimates were based on numbers that Rep. Ryan himself provided. When numbers provided by more disinterested parties are plugged in, the plan is not as attractive.

Lengthy analysis here:

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3114
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Old 07-13-10, 10:17 AM
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Re: Paul Ryan's "Roadmap"

Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
Am I guaranteed I'll get back what i put into SS?
You are guaranteed a livable amount for the rest of your life.
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Old 07-13-10, 10:18 AM
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Re: Paul Ryan's "Roadmap"

Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
You could put your FICA contributions in a basic savings acct (even with today's rock bottom interest rates), and do better than what SS offers.
Assuming you live for only 5 years.
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Old 07-13-10, 10:21 AM
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Re: Paul Ryan's "Roadmap"

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Assuming you live for only 5 years.
Do you really expect to pull out of SS, even if you live until 90-95, what you put in for 35 years of working?
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Old 07-13-10, 10:29 AM
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Re: Paul Ryan's "Roadmap"

Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
You could put your FICA contributions in a basic savings acct (even with today's rock bottom interest rates), and do better than what SS offers.
Hogwash!!
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Old 07-13-10, 10:31 AM
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Re: Paul Ryan's "Roadmap"

Social Security + Medicare = best deal going.
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Old 07-13-10, 10:34 AM
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Re: Paul Ryan's "Roadmap"

Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post
Social Security + Medicare = best deal going.
maybe for people who aren't contributing as much as the rest of us
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