Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > General Discussions > Other Talk > Religion, Politics and World Events
Reload this Page >

Deadly Israeli Raid Draws Condemnation (Update: Iran to offer escorts)

Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

Deadly Israeli Raid Draws Condemnation (Update: Iran to offer escorts)

Old 06-01-10, 02:17 AM
  #1  
DVD Talk Legend
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 20,726
Deadly Israeli Raid Draws Condemnation (Update: Iran to offer escorts)

JERUSALEM — Israel faced intense international condemnation and growing domestic questions on Monday after a raid by naval commandos that killed nine people, many of them Turks, on an aid flotilla bound for Gaza.

Turkey, Israel’s most important friend in the Muslim world, recalled its ambassador and canceled planned military exercises with Israel as the countries’ already tense relations soured even further. The United Nations Security Council met in emergency session over the attack, which occurred in international waters north of Gaza, and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel was flying home after canceling a Tuesday meeting with President Obama.

With street protests erupting around the world, Mr. Netanyahu defended the Israeli military’s actions, saying the commandos, enforcing what Israel says is a legal blockade, were set upon by passengers on the Turkish ship they boarded and fired only in self-defense. The military released a video of the early moments of the raid to support that claim.

Israel said the violence was instigated by pro-Palestinian activists who presented themselves as humanitarians but had come ready for a fight. Organizers of the flotilla accused the Israeli forces of opening fire as soon as they landed on the deck, and released videos to support their case. Israel released video taken from one of its vessels to supports its own account of events.

The Israeli public seemed largely to support the navy, but policy experts questioned preparations for the military operation, whether there had been an intelligence failure and whether the Israeli insistence on stopping the flotilla had been counterproductive. Some commentators were calling for the resignation of Ehud Barak, the defense minister.

“The government failed the test of results; blaming the organizers of the flotilla for causing the deaths by ignoring Israel’s orders to turn back is inadequate,” wrote Aluf Benn, a columnist for Haaretz, on the newspaper’s Web site on Monday, calling for a national committee of inquiry. “Decisions taken by the responsible authorities must be probed.”

The flotilla of cargo ships and passenger boats was carrying 10,000 tons of aid for Gaza, where the Islamic militant group Hamas holds sway, in an attempt to challenge Israel’s military blockade of Gaza.

The raid and its deadly consequences have thrown Israel’s policy of blockading Gaza into the international limelight; at the Security Council on Monday voices were raised against the blockade, and the pressure to abandon it is bound to intensify.

Israel had vowed not to let the flotilla reach the shores of Gaza, where Hamas, an organization sworn to Israel’s destruction, took over by force in 2007.

Named the Freedom Flotilla, and led by the pro-Palestinian Free Gaza Movement and a Turkish organization, Insani Yardim Vakfi, the convoy had converged at sea near Cyprus and set out on the final leg of its journey on Sunday afternoon. Israel warned the vessels to abort their mission, describing it as a provocation.

The confrontation began shortly before midnight on Sunday when Israeli warships intercepted the aid flotilla, according to a person on one boat. The Israeli military warned the vessels that they were entering a hostile area and that the Gaza shore was under blockade.

The vessels refused the military’s request to dock at the Israeli port of Ashdod, north of Gaza, and continued toward their destination.

Around 4 a.m. on Monday, naval commandos came aboard the Turkish ship, the Mavi Marmara, having been lowered by ropes from helicopters onto the decks.

At that point, the operation seems to have gone badly wrong.

Israeli officials say that the soldiers were dropped into an ambush and were attacked with clubs, metal rods and knives.

An Israeli official said that the navy was planning to stop five of the six vessels of the flotilla with large nets that interfere with propellers, but that the sixth was too large for that. The official said there was clearly an intelligence failure in that the commandos were expecting to face passive resistance, and not an angry, violent reaction.

The Israelis had planned to commandeer the vessels and steer them to Ashdod, where their cargo would be unloaded and, the authorities said, transferred overland to Gaza after proper inspection.

The military said in a statement that two activists were later found with pistols taken from Israeli commandos. It accused the activists of opening fire, “as evident by the empty pistol magazines.”

Another soldier said the orders were to neutralize the passengers, not to kill them.

But the forces “had to open fire in order to defend themselves,” the navy commander, Vice Adm. Eliezer Marom, said at a news conference in Tel Aviv, adding, “Their lives were at risk.”

At least seven soldiers were wounded, one of them seriously. The military said that some suffered gunshot wounds; at least one had been stabbed.

Some Israeli officials said they had worried about a debacle from the start, and questioned Israel’s broader security policies.

Einat Wilf, a Labor Party member of Parliament who sits on the influential Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, said that she had warned Mr. Barak and others well in advance that the flotilla was a public relations issue and should not be dealt with by military means.

“This had nothing to do with security,” she said in an interview. “The armaments for Hamas were not coming from this flotilla.”

The fatalities all occurred aboard the Mavi Marmara, a Turkish passenger vessel that was carrying about 600 activists under the auspices of Insani Yardim Vakfi, an organization also known as I.H.H. Israeli officials have characterized it as a dangerous Islamic organization with terrorist links.

Yet the organization, founded in 1992 to collect aid for the Bosnians, is now active in 120 countries and has been present at recent disaster areas like Haiti and New Orleans.

“Our volunteers were not trained military personnel,” said Yavuz Dede, deputy director of the organization. “They were civilians trying to get aid to Gaza. There were artists, intellectuals and journalists among them. Such an offensive cannot be explained by any terms.”

There were no immediate accounts available from the passengers of the Turkish ship, which arrived at the naval base in Ashdod on Monday evening, where nearly three dozen were arrested, many for not giving their names. The base was off limits to the news media and declared a closed military zone.

The injured had been flown by helicopter to Israeli hospitals. At the Sheba Medical Center at Tel Hashomer, near Tel Aviv, relatives of injured soldiers were gathered outside an intensive care unit when a man with a long beard, one of the wounded passengers, was wheeled by, escorted by military police.

Organizers of the flotilla, relying mainly on footage filmed by activists on board the Turkish passenger ship, because all other communications were down, blamed Israeli aggression for the deadly results.

The Israeli soldiers dropped onto the deck and “opened fire on sleeping civilians at four in the morning,” said Greta Berlin, a leader of the pro-Palestinian Free Gaza Movement, speaking by phone from Cyprus on Monday.

Israeli officials said that international law allowed for the capture of naval vessels in international waters if they were about to violate a blockade. The blockade was imposed by Israel and Egypt after the Hamas takeover of Gaza in 2007. Israel’s deputy foreign minister, Danny Ayalon, said Monday that the blockade was “aimed at preventing the infiltration of terror and terrorists into Gaza.”

Despite sporadic rocket fire from the Palestinian territory against southern Israel, Israel says it allows enough basic supplies through border crossings to avoid any acute humanitarian crisis. But it insists that there will be no significant change so long as Hamas continues to hold Gilad Shalit, an Israeli soldier captured in a cross-border raid in 2006.

The Free Gaza Movement has organized several aid voyages since the summer of 2008, usually consisting of one or two vessels. The earliest ones were allowed to reach Gaza. Others have been intercepted and forced back, and one, last June, was commandeered by the Israeli Navy and towed to Ashdod. This six-boat fleet was the most ambitious attempt yet to break the blockade.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/01/wo...1flotilla.html
So will Israel cave in and end the blockade? Seems like this situation could get much worse.

As for the dead activists, meh. It's not like Israel didn't warn them or blow up the ship with a torpedo.
Ranger is offline  
Old 06-01-10, 03:52 AM
  #2  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 29,920
re: Deadly Israeli Raid Draws Condemnation (Update: Iran to offer escorts)

Yeah, as usual Israel was just "defending itself" and everything was perfectly "legal" as in "we'll do whatever we want, when we want to".
eXcentris is offline  
Old 06-01-10, 06:49 AM
  #3  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: MI
Posts: 25,054
re: Deadly Israeli Raid Draws Condemnation (Update: Iran to offer escorts)

When Israel draws a line in the sand (or water) and tells you not to cross it, and you do, and attack the soldiers holding the line, the results are predictable. You die.
OldDude is offline  
Old 06-01-10, 07:10 AM
  #4  
DVD Talk Hero
 
jfoobar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 37,812
re: Deadly Israeli Raid Draws Condemnation (Update: Iran to offer escorts)

There is video that seems to clearly show at least some Israeli soldiers being viciously attacked when they came on board, including one being beaten repeatedly when down. This was all, apparently, before the soldiers fired a shot.
jfoobar is offline  
Old 06-01-10, 07:49 AM
  #5  
DVD Talk God
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 68,522
re: Deadly Israeli Raid Draws Condemnation (Update: Iran to offer escorts)

Originally Posted by eXcentris View Post
Yeah, as usual Israel was just "defending itself" and everything was perfectly "legal" as in "we'll do whatever we want, when we want to".
Israel draws a line in the sand (or water) and tells you not to cross it, and you do, and attack the soldiers holding the line, the results are predictable. You die.
From eXcentris' previous posts, it's obvious that he doesn't believe Israel has the right to defend itself.
classicman2 is offline  
Old 06-01-10, 09:16 AM
  #6  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: MI
Posts: 25,054
re: Deadly Israeli Raid Draws Condemnation (Update: Iran to offer escorts)

Originally Posted by jfoobar View Post
There is video that seems to clearly show at least some Israeli soldiers being viciously attacked when they came on board, including one being beaten repeatedly when down. This was all, apparently, before the soldiers fired a shot.
Fear not, the world will ignore that evidence and procede with condemning Israel. Business as usual, please don't clutter our minds with facts.
OldDude is offline  
Old 06-01-10, 09:31 AM
  #7  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 36,981
re: Deadly Israeli Raid Draws Condemnation (Update: Iran to offer escorts)

I was wondering if they'd release a video...do we have a link to it?
Venusian is offline  
Old 06-01-10, 09:32 AM
  #8  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 36,981
re: Deadly Israeli Raid Draws Condemnation (Update: Iran to offer escorts)

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bU12KW-XyZE&rel=0&border=1&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bU12KW-XyZE&rel=0&border=1&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>
Venusian is offline  
Old 06-01-10, 09:44 AM
  #9  
Moderator
 
TheBigDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Florida
Posts: 10,726
re: Deadly Israeli Raid Draws Condemnation (Update: Iran to offer escorts)

Here's another video:

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/gYjkLUcbJWo&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x402061&color2=0x9461ca"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/gYjkLUcbJWo&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x402061&color2=0x9461ca" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
TheBigDave is online now  
Old 06-01-10, 09:45 AM
  #10  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: MI
Posts: 25,054
re: Deadly Israeli Raid Draws Condemnation (Update: Iran to offer escorts)

Apparently, another boat is being sent today, to try to provoke further outrage.
Hopefully:
*Israel torpedoes the boat
*or the soldiers are armed with loaded, heavy weapons, so as to defend themselves better.

I suppose a third approach is to use the "US option," send a Predator, fire Hellfie missile, sink boat.
We killed about as many terrorists, including their wives and children in Pakistan this weekend, and hardly anyone noticed.
OldDude is offline  
Old 06-01-10, 09:56 AM
  #11  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Louisville
Posts: 7,595
re: Deadly Israeli Raid Draws Condemnation (Update: Iran to offer escorts)

Our Navy commandoes fell right into the hands of the Gaza mission members. A few minutes before the takeover attempt aboard the Marmara got underway, the operation commander was told that 20 people were waiting on the deck where a helicopter was to deploy the first team of the elite Flotilla 13 unit. The original plan was to disembark on the top deck, and from there rush to the vessel’s bridge and order the Marmara’s captain to stop.

Officials estimated that passengers will show slight resistance, and possibly minor violence; for that reason, the operation’s commander decided to bring the helicopter directly above the top deck. The first rope that soldiers used in order to descend down to the ship was wrested away by activists, most of them Turks, and tied to an antenna with the hopes of bringing the chopper down. However, Flotilla 13 fighters decided to carry on.

Navy commandoes slid down to the vessel one by one, yet then the unexpected occurred: The passengers that awaited them on the deck pulled out bats, clubs, and slingshots with glass marbles, assaulting each soldier as he disembarked. The fighters were nabbed one by one and were beaten up badly, yet they attempted to fight back.

However, to their misfortune, they were only equipped with paintball rifles used to disperse minor protests, such as the ones held in Bilin. The paintballs obviously made no impression on the activists, who kept on beating the troops up and even attempted to wrest away their weapons.

One soldier who came to the aid of a comrade was captured by the rioters and sustained severe blows. The commandoes were equipped with handguns but were told they should only use them in the face of life-threatening situations. When they came down from the chopper, they kept on shouting to each other “don’t shoot, don’t shoot,” even though they sustained numerous blows.


‘I saw the tip of a rifle’

The Navy commandoes were prepared to mostly encounter political activists seeking to hold a protest, rather than trained street fighters. The soldiers were told they were to verbally convince activists who offer resistance to give up, and only then use paintballs. They were permitted to use their handguns only under extreme circumstances.

The planned rush towards the vessel’s bridge became impossible, even when a second chopper was brought in with another crew of soldiers. “Throw stun grenades,” shouted Flotilla 13’s commander who monitored the operation. The Navy chief was not too far, on board a speedboat belonging to Flotilla 13, along with forces who attempted to climb into the back of the ship.

The forces hurled stun grenades, yet the rioters on the top deck, whose number swelled up to 30 by that time, kept on beating up about 30 commandoes who kept gliding their way one by one from the helicopter. At one point, the attackers nabbed one commando, wrested away his handgun, and threw him down from the top deck to the lower deck, 30 feet below. The soldier sustained a serious head wound and lost his consciousness.

Only after this injury did Flotilla 13 troops ask for permission to use live fire. The commander approved it: You can go ahead and fire. The soldiers pulled out their handguns and started shooting at the rioters’ legs, a move that ultimately neutralized them. Meanwhile, the rioters started to fire back at the commandoes.


“I saw the tip of a rifle sticking out of the stairwell,” one commando said. “He fired at us and we fired back. We didn’t see if we hit him. We looked for him later but couldn’t find him.” Two soldiers sustained gunshot wounds to their knee and stomach after rioters apparently fired at them using guns wrested away from troops.


2 errors

During the commotion, another commando was stabbed with a knife. In a later search aboard the Marmara, soldiers found caches of bats, clubs, knives, and slingshots used by the rioters ahead of the IDF takeover. It appeared the activists were well prepared for a fight.

Some passengers on the ship stood at the back and pounded the soldiers’ hands as they attempted to climb on board. Only after a 30-minute shootout and brutal assaults using clubs and knifes did commandoes manage to reach the bridge and take over the Marmara.

It appears that the error in planning the operation was the estimate that passengers were indeed political activists and members of humanitarian groups who seek a political provocation, but would not resort to brutal violence. The soldiers thought they will encounter Bilin-style violence; instead, they got Bangkok. The forces that disembarked from the helicopters were few; just dozens of troops – not enough to contend with the large group awaiting them.

The second error was that commanders did not address seriously enough the fact that a group of men were expecting the soldiers on the top deck. Had they addressed this more seriously, they may have hurled tear-gas grenades and smoke grenades from the helicopter to create a screen that would have enabled them to carry out their mission, without the fighters falling right into the hands of the rioters, who severely assaulted them.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...896796,00.html
DGibFen is offline  
Old 06-01-10, 10:02 AM
  #12  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Dr Mabuse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: 75 clicks above the Do Lung bridge...
Posts: 18,950
re: Deadly Israeli Raid Draws Condemnation (Update: Iran to offer escorts)

Israel shows such restraint with people actively trying to kill them. It really speaks well of them.

All the racist people of the world are revealed in situations like this. They just hate Jews plain and simple. It's really telling stuff.

I guess the racist MSM is counting on the largest majority of people being totally ignorant, so they'll buy the 'this was a humanitarian aid convoy' bullshit.
Dr Mabuse is offline  
Old 06-01-10, 10:08 AM
  #13  
DVD Talk Hero
 
JasonF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 39,520
re: Deadly Israeli Raid Draws Condemnation (Update: Iran to offer escorts)

Egypt has now opened the border to Gaza.

This was a colossal fuck-up by Israel, escalated at every turn by the Israeli military and the participants in the flotilla.
JasonF is offline  
Old 06-01-10, 10:08 AM
  #14  
DVD Talk Ruler
 
General Zod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Santa Clarita, CA
Posts: 21,422
re: Deadly Israeli Raid Draws Condemnation (Update: Iran to offer escorts)

Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse View Post
Israel shows such restraint with people actively trying to kill them. It really speaks well of them.

All the racist people of the world are revealed in situations like this. They just hate Jews plain and simple. It's really telling stuff.

I guess the racist MSM is counting on the largest majority of people being totally ignorant, so they'll buy the 'this was a humanitarian aid convoy' bullshit.


The video is compelling and, the real purpose of the mission obvious, and the restraint shown by Israel does speak well of them. However the rest of the world isn't watching, isn't thinking, and isn't listening. They just close their eyes and ears and just hate the Jews.
General Zod is offline  
Old 06-01-10, 10:10 AM
  #15  
DVD Talk Ruler
 
General Zod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Santa Clarita, CA
Posts: 21,422
re: Deadly Israeli Raid Draws Condemnation (Update: Iran to offer escorts)

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Egypt has now opened the border to Gaza.

This was a colossal fuck-up by Israel, escalated at every turn by the Israeli military and the participants in the flotilla.
I agree. Israel should have just sunk the boats outright instead of trying to stop them peacefully. I hope they learned their lesson.
General Zod is offline  
Old 06-01-10, 10:12 AM
  #16  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: MN
Posts: 23,936
re: Deadly Israeli Raid Draws Condemnation (Update: Iran to offer escorts)

Yeah, those videos will just be spun as self-defense.
starman9000 is offline  
Old 06-01-10, 10:17 AM
  #17  
DVD Talk Hero
 
JasonF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 39,520
re: Deadly Israeli Raid Draws Condemnation (Update: Iran to offer escorts)

Originally Posted by General Zod View Post
I agree. Israel should have just sunk the boats outright instead of trying to stop them peacefully. I hope they learned their lesson.
Israel could have sunk the ship. Why would it have been in their interest to do so? Assuming Israel actually wants peace, letting the situation get as far as it did -- let alone killing hundreds of people on the flotilla as you propose -- was a fuck-up of the first order.

Also, while I sympathize with Israel's need to defend itself and prevent weapons from getting into Gaza, I am not sure there is any justification in international law for blockading Gaza.

Quite frankly, I think over the past few years, the Israeli leadership has been just as fanatical, irrational, and hell-bent on self-destruction as the Palestinian leadership. I hope this brings down Bibi's government.
JasonF is offline  
Old 06-01-10, 10:47 AM
  #18  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,579
re: Deadly Israeli Raid Draws Condemnation (Update: Iran to offer escorts)

I really see no need to defend Israel or Palestine anymore - the whole conflict is just insane at this point. Neither nation holds the moral high ground. I couldn't care less if they both wiped each other off the map.
Nausicaa is offline  
Old 06-01-10, 11:47 AM
  #19  
2017 TOTY Winner
 
Save Ferris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 13,578
re: Deadly Israeli Raid Draws Condemnation (Update: Iran to offer escorts)

Why couldnt Israel send some scuba guys to tie a very thick chain to the prop/rudder under the boat (bigger than hand held bolt cutters could cut) and then just tow them to some other port/island/dock and tie the other end of the chain to land.
Save Ferris is offline  
Old 06-01-10, 12:29 PM
  #20  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Ky-Fi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Cape Ann, Massachusetts
Posts: 10,928
re: Deadly Israeli Raid Draws Condemnation (Update: Iran to offer escorts)

Why, no one is asking the important question: how will the Palestinians possibly be able to weather the monumental humanitarian crisis without this crucial shipload of supplies?! Where else could the aid come from if not from these flotillas?!

I'm sure for the Palestinian leadership, this flotilla's mission was accomplished to their absolute satisfaction.
Ky-Fi is offline  
Old 06-01-10, 12:30 PM
  #21  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Sean O'Hara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vichy America
Posts: 13,535
re: Deadly Israeli Raid Draws Condemnation (Update: Iran to offer escorts)

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Egypt has now opened the border to Gaza.

This was a colossal fuck-up by Israel, escalated at every turn by the Israeli military and the participants in the flotilla.
Exactly.

Israel needs to hire a PR company to get these videos out before the Palestinians can start spinning it into "Those evil Joooos are hurting poor innocent people who did nothing provocative!" Doing things properly doesn't mean anything if the other side controls the message.

(That is what you meant, right?)
Sean O'Hara is offline  
Old 06-01-10, 01:59 PM
  #22  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 29,920
re: Deadly Israeli Raid Draws Condemnation (Update: Iran to offer escorts)

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Israel could have sunk the ship. Why would it have been in their interest to do so? Assuming Israel actually wants peace, letting the situation get as far as it did -- let alone killing hundreds of people on the flotilla as you propose -- was a fuck-up of the first order.

Also, while I sympathize with Israel's need to defend itself and prevent weapons from getting into Gaza, I am not sure there is any justification in international law for blockading Gaza.

Quite frankly, I think over the past few years, the Israeli leadership has been just as fanatical, irrational, and hell-bent on self-destruction as the Palestinian leadership. I hope this brings down Bibi's government.
No no you don't get it, they are really just defending themselves. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just a jew hating antisemite!

They've turned Gaza into an open air prison.
They continue to build illegal settlements in the West Bank.
They continue to demolish Arab homes in East Jerusalem, essentially trying to purge the Arabs out.

Rather odd, not to mention ironic, behavior for a country with such a history of oppression...

As an Haaretz editorial (huh... an evil leftist paper!) mentionned a while back, the world's patience is running out. The "history of oppression" free pass is about to expire. Israel should no longer be allowed to do whatever the heck it wants and should be treated like every other so called civilized country.

Last edited by eXcentris; 06-01-10 at 02:04 PM.
eXcentris is offline  
Old 06-01-10, 02:02 PM
  #23  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 29,920
re: Deadly Israeli Raid Draws Condemnation (Update: Iran to offer escorts)

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
Exactly.

Israel needs to hire a PR company to get these videos out before the Palestinians can start spinning it into "Those evil Joooos are hurting poor innocent people who did nothing provocative!" Doing things properly doesn't mean anything if the other side controls the message.

(That is what you meant, right?)

Please tell me you don't really believe that the "spinning" only occurs on one side. Wake me up when Israel allows an independent investigation on any of these "events". Ain't gonna happen.
eXcentris is offline  
Old 06-01-10, 02:03 PM
  #24  
DVD Talk God
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Directionally Challenged (for DirecTV)
Posts: 122,915
re: Deadly Israeli Raid Draws Condemnation (Update: Iran to offer escorts)

Originally Posted by Nausicaa View Post
I really see no need to defend Israel or Palestine anymore - the whole conflict is just insane at this point. Neither nation holds the moral high ground.
My thoughts too.
Red Dog is offline  
Old 06-01-10, 02:16 PM
  #25  
DVD Talk Hero
 
CRM114's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 42,731
re: Deadly Israeli Raid Draws Condemnation (Update: Iran to offer escorts)

Apparently, Israel ordered the flotilla to shore and offered to move the goods over land. This was ignored. That said, it appears to me that Israel completely overreacted and attacked a ship of civilians in international waters.
CRM114 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.