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Imagine if the Tea Party was black...

Old 04-25-10, 03:25 PM
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Imagine if the Tea Party was black...

http://ephphatha-poetry.blogspot.com...-tim-wise.html

Interesting food for thought and I think the author has made a really good point.
Imagine that hundreds of black protesters were to descend upon Washington DC and Northern Virginia, just a few miles from the Capitol and White House, armed with AK-47s, assorted handguns, and ammunition. And imagine that some of these protesters —the black protesters — spoke of the need for political revolution, and possibly even armed conflict in the event that laws they didn’t like were enforced by the government? Would these protester — these black protesters with guns — be seen as brave defenders of the Second Amendment, or would they be viewed by most whites as a danger to the republic? What if they were Arab-Americans? Because, after all, that’s what happened recently when white gun enthusiasts descended upon the nation’s capital, arms in hand, and verbally announced their readiness to make war on the country’s political leaders if the need arose.
Would the same people supporting the Tea Party's first amendment rights be just as supportive with black people or with Muslim protesters who took the exact same action or spoke the exact same words?
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Old 04-25-10, 03:43 PM
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Re: Imagine if the Tea Party was black...

Originally Posted by hahn View Post
http://ephphatha-poetry.blogspot.com...-tim-wise.html

Interesting food for thought and I think the author has made a really good point.
Would the same people supporting the Tea Party's first amendment rights be just as supportive with black people or with Muslim protesters who took the exact same action or spoke the exact same words?
Do you mean like the Black Panthers?

I would say the sides were reversed as to who thought they were dangerous, and who was defending their right to demonstrate and speak freely. What goes around comes around.
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Old 04-25-10, 04:18 PM
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Re: Imagine if the Tea Party was black...

You mean if the pot called the kettle white?

And would liberals make fun of a "bunch of black people standing around making a fuss" instead of a "bunch of white people standing around making a fuss?" No. Liberals would eat it up if they were mostly black.

Last edited by Th0r S1mpson; 04-25-10 at 04:20 PM.
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Old 04-25-10, 04:44 PM
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Re: Imagine if the Tea Party was black...

Originally Posted by hahn View Post
Would the same people supporting the Tea Party's first amendment rights be just as supportive with black people or with Muslim protesters who took the exact same action or spoke the exact same words?
So, they spoke "the exact same words"---and I'll assume honestly----as the tea partiers? Meaning, they fully agreed with every fundamental point of the tea party movement, and weren't promoting a different ideological agenda? Of course the tea partiers would be just as supportive.

So in the case of blacks, you're theoretically eliminating every single point of ideological contention, and you assume that tea partiers would feel a sense of revulsion towards them, and the whites would abandon their role in the movement purely because of the skin color of the black tea partiers?
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Old 04-25-10, 04:54 PM
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Re: Imagine if the Tea Party was black...

You know who would be most upset if the Tea Party were a black movement? Democrats, wondering how they got of their ideological leash.

Last edited by wmansir; 04-25-10 at 05:04 PM.
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Old 04-25-10, 05:00 PM
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Re: Imagine if the Tea Party was black...

Originally Posted by wmansir View Post
You know who would be most upset if the Tea Party a black movement? Democrats, wondering how they got of their ideological leash.
Exactly right.
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Old 04-25-10, 05:37 PM
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Re: Imagine if the Tea Party was black...

You're confusing the Tea Party movement (Fiscal Responsibility & Limited Government) with the Gun Rights movement. I'm sure they share some supporters. But they're not the same thing.
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Old 04-25-10, 05:43 PM
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Re: Imagine if the Tea Party was black...

Originally Posted by OldDude View Post
Do you mean like the Black Panthers?

I would say the sides were reversed as to who thought they were dangerous, and who was defending their right to demonstrate and speak freely. What goes around comes around.
What makes you think I supported the actions of the Black Panthers? I'm against what was done back then, and I'm against what's happening now.

So the only argument I'm seeing here is that it doesn't matter if it's wrong, if it was done in the past by some group that you don't dislike, it's okay if the group you DO sympathize with does the something similar. So African countries should now say it's ok to kidnap white people for slavery? That's the same argument.

You all have double standards but can never admit to it. It's much easier to say you believe in equality for all rather than actually practice it.
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Old 04-25-10, 05:49 PM
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Re: Imagine if the Tea Party was black...

Originally Posted by hahn View Post
So the only argument I'm seeing here is that it doesn't matter if it's wrong, if it was done in the past by some group that you don't dislike, it's okay if the group you DO sympathize with does the something similar. So African countries should now say it's ok to kidnap white people for slavery? That's the same argument.
It seemed to me like what he was saying that in the past, African American groups with a particular axe to grind felt disenfranchised by the government, hence The Black Panthers. Now white groups with an axe to grind feel disenfranchised, hence the recent demonstration.
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Old 04-25-10, 05:52 PM
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Re: Imagine if the Tea Party was black...



"Now imagine they're black."

This is the most retarded argument I've ever read.

Even if you want to assume the premise is true, that doesn't serve as a condemnation of the Tea Party's policies or actions. It serves as a condemnation of racism, where actions are ok for one race and not ok for another. So is this supposed to be an attack on the Tea Party or an attack on hypothetical racists?

Last edited by CaptainMarvel; 04-25-10 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 04-25-10, 05:59 PM
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Re: Imagine if the Tea Party was black...

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel View Post

This is the most retarded argument I've ever read.
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Old 04-25-10, 06:19 PM
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Re: Imagine if the Tea Party was black...

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel View Post

This is the most retarded argument I've ever read.
I see it all the time on this forum, usually people complaining about the liberal media bias because of a hypothetical.

Glad to see the other side using the same tactic shows just how idiotic this argument is.

Last edited by Superboy; 04-25-10 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 04-25-10, 06:26 PM
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Re: Imagine if the Tea Party was black...

Originally Posted by hahn View Post
What makes you think I supported the actions of the Black Panthers? I'm against what was done back then, and I'm against what's happening now.

So the only argument I'm seeing here is that it doesn't matter if it's wrong, if it was done in the past by some group that you don't dislike, it's okay if the group you DO sympathize with does the something similar. So African countries should now say it's ok to kidnap white people for slavery? That's the same argument.

You all have double standards but can never admit to it. It's much easier to say you believe in equality for all rather than actually practice it.
Actually, I think the LAW came down on the side of "talk is talk, and protected." Also, actual armed conflict gets you shot down in the streets like dogs.

The actual rhetoric we are hearing from the tea party folks is certainly as misguided as several other prior groups, but I think the current level still falls under "talk is talk and protected." I don't hear them seriously argueing or organizing armed rebellion. I do think they are inciting rebellion by ballot this fall and trying to work up emotions for that purpose. However, that is legal; we DO have the opportunity to overthrow the government every two years, even if we don't use it much (enough??).

Finally, I would state that you aren't really protecting free speech until you protect speech you abhor. It is trivial to protect speech you agree with.
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Old 04-25-10, 08:37 PM
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Re: Imagine if the Tea Party was black...

Originally Posted by hahn View Post
You all have double standards but can never admit to it. It's much easier to say you believe in equality for all rather than actually practice it.
So are you saying you would be opposed to the black group, or that you support the white group?
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Old 04-25-10, 11:17 PM
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Re: Imagine if the Tea Party was black...

Originally Posted by hahn View Post
Would the same people supporting the Tea Party's first amendment rights be just as supportive with black people or with Muslim protesters who took the exact same action or spoke the exact same words?
Were the black people and/or Muslims also protesting the bank bailouts and tax increases?

I would imagine that the white tea party people would support them as well. Maybe not so much the Muslim protesters though, but who knows.

I think the overall article isn't that good.

A better comparison would be to use the protests against the Iraq war/Bush Administration. Alot or parallels such as questioning the legitimacy of the presidency, conspiracy theories (W being AWOL vs Obama born in Kenya), questioning of groups patriotism, accusations of racism (Bush's minority judicial nominees vs Obama's minority judicial nominees), etc.
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Old 04-25-10, 11:49 PM
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Re: Imagine if the Tea Party was black...

Any links to pictures or stories describing protesters walking the streets of D.C. with AK-47s? Or any other guns? I'm assuming they're talking about the April 15 protest. I've found some fairly anti-tea party articles on the D.C. protest and can't find any mention of guns there.

The linked article claims Ted Nugent recently said President Obama could suck his machine gun. That's actually a quote from 2007. Not that it makes it excusable, but it's factually incorrect to claim it was 1) recent, 2) a threat against the President, 3) linked to the Tea Party, 4) motivated by Obama's race, as Nugent said basically the same thing about Hilary Clinton in his next breath. And the idea that a rap artist could never rap about violence against a white politician is laughable.

I don't view Pat Buchanan as any more relevant than Louis Farrakhan.

It's ludicrous to insinuate there'd be some kind of overwhelming outrage if a black radio host suggested a white president was racist.

I like how the author says, "Imagine that a popular black liberal website posted comments about the daughter of a white president, calling her “typical redneck trash,” referring to a comment a reader posted on a blog entry about Malia Obama on freerepublic.com. All I had to do is search for "Jenna Bush White Trash" to find a thread on democraticunderground.com where someone posted of the Bush girls, "Whenever I see them, I think Girls Gone Wild: White Trash in DC!" Imagine indeed, smug blogger.

Basically, the blog contains enough factual inaccuracies that it's hard to take any of it at face value or to consider its author anything but biased and ignorant or deceitful. Beyond that, even if everything it describes happens exactly as described, it's not hard to imagine similar actions being carried out by black people or liberals, as most of them have. It's a whole bunch of nonsensical huffing and puffing, appealing to emotion at the cost of reason in an attempt to foster white guilt or black rage, depending on the race of the reader.
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Old 04-25-10, 11:57 PM
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Re: Imagine if the Tea Party was black...

Originally Posted by OldDude View Post
Finally, I would state that you aren't really protecting free speech until you protect speech you abhor. It is trivial to protect speech you agree with.
Well, unless that speech gives aid and comfort to the enemy.

(Not that the tea partiers would be against protecting that kind of speech. They're for Limited Government!)
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Old 04-26-10, 12:05 AM
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Re: Imagine if the Tea Party was black...

Originally Posted by maxfisher View Post
Any links to pictures or stories describing protesters walking the streets of D.C. with AK-47s? Or any other guns? I'm assuming they're talking about the April 15 protest. I've found some fairly anti-tea party articles on the D.C. protest and can't find any mention of guns there.
I think they're referring to the April 19th protests in Washington DC and Virginia, which was about Gun Rights and not the Tea Party.

I don't think anyone at the DC rally was armed (due to city's gun laws). I'm sure they would have been arrested.

Here's a video of the Virginia rally. Looks more like a picnic than an angry protest.

<iframe frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" width="480px" height="270px" src="http://specials.washingtonpost.com/mv/embed/?title=Armed%20activists%20rally%20in%20Arlington%2C%20Va.&stillURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost. com%2Fwp-dyn%2Fcontent%2Fphoto%2F2010%2F04%2F19%2FPH2010041903634.jpg&flvURL=%2Fmedia%2F2010%2F04192010-16v&width=480&height=270&autoStart=false&clickThru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fwp-dyn%2Fcontent%2Fvideo%2F2010%2F04%2F19%2FVI2010041903627.html"></iframe>
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Old 04-26-10, 12:05 AM
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Re: Imagine if the Tea Party was black...

Originally Posted by hahn View Post
So the only argument I'm seeing here is that it doesn't matter if it's wrong, if it was done in the past by some group that you don't dislike, it's okay if the group you DO sympathize with does the something similar.
I don't see that argument. I see the one that says that if they were for limited government and fiscal responsibility A) the Democrats would soil themselves, and B) they would be viewed the same in ideology as the current tea partiers. Though I think they would be not called racist by the media nearly as much....or the Democrats.

Let's face it, the tea party people are getting attention because they are really the only "conservative" organized protestors we have seen in a long time. Liberal protestors are so freaking common, and this is something new. Plus, it is a threat to the Chosen One. Throw out the word "racist" and you have something that gets ratings, and that's what the news is about today.
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Old 04-26-10, 12:16 AM
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Re: Imagine if the Tea Party was black...

imagine if they were invisible? or snow cones! Delicious
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Old 04-26-10, 01:05 AM
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Re: Imagine if the Tea Party was black...

Originally Posted by TheBigDave View Post
Here's a video of the Virginia rally. Looks more like a picnic than an angry protest.

<iframe frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" width="480px" height="270px" src="http://specials.washingtonpost.com/mv/embed/?title=Armed%20activists%20rally%20in%20Arlington%2C%20Va.&stillURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost. com%2Fwp-dyn%2Fcontent%2Fphoto%2F2010%2F04%2F19%2FPH2010041903634.jpg&flvURL=%2Fmedia%2F2010%2F04192010-16v&width=480&height=270&autoStart=false&clickThru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fwp-dyn%2Fcontent%2Fvideo%2F2010%2F04%2F19%2FVI2010041903627.html"></iframe>
Don't know about the video, but that still looks more like the most badass marriage equality rally ever.
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Old 04-26-10, 05:17 AM
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Re: Imagine if the Tea Party was black...

Imagine Timmy Wise were able to ride a false premise all the way into White Guiltville.
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Old 04-26-10, 08:22 AM
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Re: Imagine if the Tea Party was black...

Originally Posted by dork View Post
Don't know about the video, but that still looks more like the most badass marriage equality rally ever.
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Old 04-26-10, 09:06 AM
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Re: Imagine if the Tea Party was black...

What does race have to do with anything?

I'm not white or black and I don't care what race protesters are. What and how they are protesting is more important.
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Old 04-26-10, 09:58 AM
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Re: Imagine if the Tea Party was black...

What if they were drunken Irishmen demanding free potatoes from the government? I bet everyone would be opposed to such protests.
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