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Far Right Crazies, (now public/private sector compensation talk)

Old 04-27-10, 04:05 PM
  #76  
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Re: Far Right Crazies, from Birthers to Women saying Obama is gonna Ban Fishing

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Is the average federal worker really comparable to the average private sector worker? I would guess that the federal government employees far fewer derrivatives traders and lettuce pickers per capita than the private sector (to pick two job categories at either end of the salary sepctrum). To really compare apples to apples, compare -- for example -- the average salary of a chemical engineer working for the federal government to one in the private sector, or a janitor working for the federal government to one in the private sector.
From the article above:

Across comparable jobs, the federal government paid higher salaries than the private sector three times out of four, the paper found.


Here's info for non federal (local and state) jobs:

http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj30n1/cj30n1-5.pdf

Note: it includes pretty graphs for wendersfan
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Old 04-27-10, 04:24 PM
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Re: Far Right Crazies, from Birthers to Women saying Obama is gonna Ban Fishing

Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
Here's info for non federal (local and state) jobs:

http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj30n1/cj30n1-5.pdf

Note: it includes pretty graphs for wendersfan
Actually, it's info on state and local union jobs.
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Old 04-27-10, 04:25 PM
  #78  
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Re: Far Right Crazies, from Birthers to Women saying Obama is gonna Ban Fishing

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
Actually, it's info on state and local union jobs.
It's about union jobs but I think the data is for all jobs.

The public sector pay advantage is most pronounced in benefits.
Bureau of Economic Analysis data show that average compensation
in the private sector was $59,909 in 2008, including $50,028 in wages
and $9,881 in benefits. Average compensation in the public sector
was $67,812, including $52,051 in wages and $15,761 in benefits.
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Old 04-27-10, 04:45 PM
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Re: Far Right Crazies, from Birthers to Women saying Obama is gonna Ban Fishing

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
Thanks to orangecrush and Birrman54 I just discovered I'm a federal employee.
I don't recall using the word federal, unless you don't think state and county employees count as public servants.
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Old 04-27-10, 04:46 PM
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Re: Far Right Crazies, from Birthers to Women saying Obama is gonna Ban Fishing

Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
From the article above:
I don't see why I should be expected to read carefully!
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Old 04-27-10, 04:47 PM
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Re: Far Right Crazies, from Birthers to Women saying Obama is gonna Ban Fishing

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
I don't see why I should be expected to read carefully!
it wasn't bolded so I give you a pass.
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Old 04-27-10, 04:51 PM
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Re: Far Right Crazies, from Birthers to Women saying Obama is gonna Ban Fishing

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
You would agree that there is a hypothetical cap on how much money you can make being a public servant, right?
Sure, but there is the same caps for people unwilling to start a business or go into sales in the private sector. Most public sector jobs aren't held by people with letters after their names and limitless earning potential.
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Old 04-27-10, 07:31 PM
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Re: Far Right Crazies, (now public/private sector compensation talk)

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Old 04-27-10, 07:47 PM
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Re: Far Right Crazies, (now public/private sector compensation talk)

"Savare Teacher"

Sounds sophisticated. Is that french, perhaps?
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Old 04-27-10, 08:36 PM
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Re: Far Right Crazies, (now public/private sector compensation talk)

Savare Teacher was a French radical popular in 1789. He was beheaded after suggesting that everyone wear canapes on their heads on alternating Wednesdays.
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Old 04-28-10, 10:48 AM
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Re: Far Right Crazies, (now public/private sector compensation talk)

<a href = "http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/28/news/economy/public_workers_earn_less/index.htm">Government jobs not so cushy</a>

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- State and local workers earn less than their private sector counterparts and the pay gap is widening, according to a report released Wednesday.

Public workers earn 11% to 12% less than workers in private companies, according to a joint study from the Center for State and Local Government Excellence and National Institute on Retirement Security.


The report, which analyzed 20 years of data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, also found that the pay gap has generally widened over the last two decades, as private compensation moved higher while earnings for state and local workers fell.

"The big divergence began to occur in the late 1990s," said John S. Heywood, a professor in the economics department at University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee and co-author of the report. "It's an issue."

Researchers say the make-up of public workers could be a primary driver for the gap. According to the study, because state and local employees tend to be older, they're less likely to leave their positions, which could keep salaries stagnant.

"The kinds of employment relationships in the public sector tend to be long term," said Keith A. Bender, associate professor of economics at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee and co-author of the report. "People in the private sector are more likely to turn over, looking for the highest return."

Still, while public sector workers are better educated -- 48% have college degrees versus 23% in the private sector -- the hard cash hasn't followed. Public employees, instead, see more in the way of benefits.

According to the study, benefits such as healthcare and retirement programs, comprise 32.7% of total compensation for public sector workers, compared to 29.2% in the total private sector. Larger private companies tend to be more in line with the public sector.

Even when accounting for these benefits, though, total compensation is still 6.8% to 7.4% lower on average for state and local employees.

"For a long time, there has been a compensation trade-off in public sector jobs --better benefits come with lower pay as compared with private sector jobs", said Beth Almeida, executive director of NIRS. "This study tells us that is still true today."

As the jobs market slowly improves, a brain drain to the private sector, potentially out of state, coupled with the recently passed $17.7 billion jobs bill, which includes tax incentives for businesses that hire, could make it harder for public sector employers to attract top talent.

The Center for State and Local Government Excellence's president, Elizabeth Kellar, said that there is a "looming workforce crisis" in the public sector, as a wave of retirement and low pay collide, leaving holes in many highly skilled slots.

"Hiring managers told us that, despite the economy, they find it difficult to fill vacancies for highly skilled [public sector] positions such as engineering, environmental science, information technology and health care professionals," said Kellar. "The compensation gap may have something to do with this."
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Old 04-28-10, 11:17 AM
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Re: Far Right Crazies, (now public/private sector compensation talk)

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
<a href = "http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/28/news/economy/public_workers_earn_less/index.htm">Government jobs not so cushy</a>

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- State and local workers earn less than their private sector counterparts and the pay gap is widening, according to a report released Wednesday.

Public workers earn 11% to 12% less than workers in private companies, according to a joint study from the Center for State and Local Government Excellence and National Institute on Retirement Security.


The report, which analyzed 20 years of data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, also found that the pay gap has generally widened over the last two decades, as private compensation moved higher while earnings for state and local workers fell.

"The big divergence began to occur in the late 1990s," said John S. Heywood, a professor in the economics department at University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee and co-author of the report. "It's an issue."

Researchers say the make-up of public workers could be a primary driver for the gap. According to the study, because state and local employees tend to be older, they're less likely to leave their positions, which could keep salaries stagnant.

"The kinds of employment relationships in the public sector tend to be long term," said Keith A. Bender, associate professor of economics at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee and co-author of the report. "People in the private sector are more likely to turn over, looking for the highest return."

Still, while public sector workers are better educated -- 48% have college degrees versus 23% in the private sector -- the hard cash hasn't followed. Public employees, instead, see more in the way of benefits.

According to the study, benefits such as healthcare and retirement programs, comprise 32.7% of total compensation for public sector workers, compared to 29.2% in the total private sector. Larger private companies tend to be more in line with the public sector.

Even when accounting for these benefits, though, total compensation is still 6.8% to 7.4% lower on average for state and local employees.

"For a long time, there has been a compensation trade-off in public sector jobs --better benefits come with lower pay as compared with private sector jobs", said Beth Almeida, executive director of NIRS. "This study tells us that is still true today."

As the jobs market slowly improves, a brain drain to the private sector, potentially out of state, coupled with the recently passed $17.7 billion jobs bill, which includes tax incentives for businesses that hire, could make it harder for public sector employers to attract top talent.

The Center for State and Local Government Excellence's president, Elizabeth Kellar, said that there is a "looming workforce crisis" in the public sector, as a wave of retirement and low pay collide, leaving holes in many highly skilled slots.

"Hiring managers told us that, despite the economy, they find it difficult to fill vacancies for highly skilled [public sector] positions such as engineering, environmental science, information technology and health care professionals," said Kellar. "The compensation gap may have something to do with this."
Correct me if this summary of the article is wrong:
Public workers make less (6-7% less on average when you add in benefits) for similar jobs than private workers. The difference for highly skilled workers is higher than the average.
Public workers get better benefits.
Public workers stay in their jobs for very long periods of time.

Just curious, does the study give any indication as to why people stay in public sector jobs for so long? Or why public sector jobs have a higher % of more educated people?
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Old 04-28-10, 11:22 AM
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Re: Far Right Crazies, (now public/private sector compensation talk)

Originally Posted by orangecrush View Post
Correct me if this summary of the article is wrong:
Public workers make less (6-7% less on average when you add in benefits) for similar jobs than private workers. The difference for highly skilled workers is higher than the average.
Public workers get better benefits.
Public workers stay in their jobs for very long periods of time.

Just curious, does the study give any indication as to why people stay in public sector jobs for so long? Or why public sector jobs have a higher % of more educated people?
Here's a link to the study:

http://www.slge.org/vertical/Sites/%...166D116%7D.PDF

Can you read it and let us know what you find?
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Old 04-28-10, 11:37 AM
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Re: Far Right Crazies, (now public/private sector compensation talk)

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
Here's a link to the study:

http://www.slge.org/vertical/Sites/%...166D116%7D.PDF

Can you read it and let us know what you find?
I'll have to wait until I get home from work. I'll send you a PM with my findings
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Old 04-28-10, 11:39 AM
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Re: Far Right Crazies, (now public/private sector compensation talk)

To answer your questions, people stay at public sector jobs longer for a couple of reasons. One, because their jobs are more secure, and two, because people who take jobs in the public sector seem to value stability more highly. And, public sector jobs have more highly educated people in them because of the nature of the work.
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Old 04-28-10, 11:41 AM
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Re: Far Right Crazies, (now public/private sector compensation talk)

Originally Posted by orangecrush View Post
Just curious, does the study give any indication as to why people stay in public sector jobs for so long? Or why public sector jobs have a higher % of more educated people?
my guess would be intangible benefits such as job security. at least that is what i've noticed in the defense field comparing contractors and DoD employees
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Old 04-28-10, 11:45 AM
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Re: Far Right Crazies, (now public/private sector compensation talk)

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
To answer your questions, people stay at public sector jobs longer for a couple of reasons. One, because their jobs are more secure, and two, because people who take jobs in the public sector seem to value stability more highly. And, public sector jobs have more highly educated people in them because of the nature of the work.
Thanks wenders. I do appreciate you.
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Old 04-28-10, 12:13 PM
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Re: Far Right Crazies, (now public/private sector compensation talk)

Public pensions pay jack shit unless you put in the 30-35 years to reap the full benefit. If one were to leave a public position after 10 years of contributions, you'd hardly get back what you paid in. That's one reason and another reason pensions are better than 401k's. Job loyalty.
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Old 04-28-10, 03:31 PM
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Re: Far Right Crazies, (now public/private sector compensation talk)

Federal pay within a profession is better than private pay in most professions. In my profession, private pay is better but not by much.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...eral-pay_N.htm
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