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Hummers are stupid. But free people have a right to do stupid things.

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Hummers are stupid. But free people have a right to do stupid things.

Old 04-19-10, 01:46 PM
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Re: Hummers are stupid. But free people have a right to do stupid things.

I think they should make the hummers even bigger. The idiots can barely drive them now. I have seen them trying to park or manuever and having a hell of a time. If they were a little bigger the morons would not be able to get out of the driveway.
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Old 04-19-10, 02:14 PM
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Re: Hummers are stupid. But free people have a right to do stupid things.

I'm unclear on the requirement that someone drive a vehicle that is equal or smaller than "what others drive." If that were the case, the poor housewife who drives a Honda CRV (which may or may not cross the acceptable threshold) is putting the Mazda Miata driver in imminent danger.
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Old 04-19-10, 03:05 PM
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Re: Hummers are stupid. But free people have a right to do stupid things.

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Free people don't necessarily have the right to do stupid things if those stupid things have a detrimental effect on their neighbors. You may or may not believe in man-caused global warming, but the people who banned Hummers clearly do, and if they are correct, then the fact that my neighbor drives a hummer affects me.

Personally, I think they should be banned because they are too big to safely share the road with the rest of us when driven by people who don't have training in operating oversized vehicles.
Sorry to much of a slippery slope for me. If I like a really green lawn I might water more often. This has an effect on others (I'm not talking drought areas). If I like my house cooler and use more electricity to do it, that effects others. If I don't participate in recycling and just throw all my trash in the regular garbage that effects others.

As for training in driving them...same argument could be made for really fast sports cars, or motorcycles, or cars with manual transmissions...

Now if you want to say it should be illegal to make a car so big...well that is a different discussion. But I'd argue there are just was bad if not worse vehicles out there. They just don't flaunt it as much.
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Old 04-19-10, 03:10 PM
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Re: Hummers are stupid. But free people have a right to do stupid things.

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
I'm unclear on the requirement that someone drive a vehicle that is equal or smaller than "what others drive." If that were the case, the poor housewife who drives a Honda CRV (which may or may not cross the acceptable threshold) is putting the Mazda Miata driver in imminent danger.
Good point.

Heck my Nissan rental is very large compared to a Smart Car.
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Old 04-19-10, 03:15 PM
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Re: Hummers are stupid. But free people have a right to do stupid things.

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
Now if you want to say it should be illegal to make a car so big...well that is a different discussion. But I'd argue there are just was bad if not worse vehicles out there. They just don't flaunt it as much.
There must be laws already dictating size. But again, I'm not seeing much difference between an Hummer and Ford F-350 or some other behemoth vehicle but they must fall within acceptable guidelines for width and height.
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Old 04-20-10, 02:49 AM
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Re: Hummers are stupid. But free people have a right to do stupid things.

"They must fall within acceptable guidelines."

I have nightmares based on this simple statement. About half of our members will understand why.
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Old 04-20-10, 09:09 AM
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Re: Hummers are stupid. But free people have a right to do stupid things.

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
Sorry to much of a slippery slope for me. If I like a really green lawn I might water more often. This has an effect on others (I'm not talking drought areas). If I like my house cooler and use more electricity to do it, that effects others. If I don't participate in recycling and just throw all my trash in the regular garbage that effects others.
It's a slippery slope in the other direction, too. It affects others if I blare my stereo at 120 decibels at 4 in the morning. It affects others if I dump my motor oil in the sewer. Most places prohibit me from doing these things no matter how much I would like to do them.

Any regulation we impose is going to be a balance between the restrictions on the liberty of the regulated people and the benefits to the people who would otherwise be adversely affected by the behavior. I don't think it's a good argument for or against a specific regulation to point to extreme examples at one end of the spectrum or another.
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Old 04-20-10, 09:38 AM
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Re: Hummers are stupid. But free people have a right to do stupid things.

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
There must be laws already dictating size. But again, I'm not seeing much difference between an Hummer and Ford F-350 or some other behemoth vehicle but they must fall within acceptable guidelines for width and height.
I think most of the laws regulating vehicle size and licensing only address the relationship with GVW or seating capacity, not size of the unit. You have to get a commercial license (A, B, C usually) to drive units w/ a GVWR over 26,000 lbs or with a seating capacity of 16 or more (or a school bus). CDL C for passengers/school bus; CDL B for over 26K w/ trailer under 10K; CDL A for Tractor/Trailers (combination vehicles) or hauling a trailer with GVWR over 10K.
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Old 04-20-10, 11:37 AM
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Re: Hummers are stupid. But free people have a right to do stupid things.

Originally Posted by orangecrush View Post
I think most of the laws regulating vehicle size and licensing only address the relationship with GVW or seating capacity, not size of the unit. You have to get a commercial license (A, B, C usually) to drive units w/ a GVWR over 26,000 lbs or with a seating capacity of 16 or more (or a school bus). CDL C for passengers/school bus; CDL B for over 26K w/ trailer under 10K; CDL A for Tractor/Trailers (combination vehicles) or hauling a trailer with GVWR over 10K.
There are no requirements that a vehicle must be a certain width (to fit in between the lines on the road?) or height (so they don't slam into overpasses on interstates)?
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Old 04-20-10, 12:00 PM
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Re: Hummers are stupid. But free people have a right to do stupid things.

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
There are no requirements that a vehicle must be a certain width (to fit in between the lines on the road?) or height (so they don't slam into overpasses on interstates)?
I know some carriers (house movers, airplane parts movers, etc.) have to get OSOW (oversize, overweight) filings, so there must be some regulations as to the width/height of vehicles operated on public roads. Maybe it is just my perspective, because I see some really big units, but hummers don’t seem that dangerous to the public at large compared to other big consumer autos.
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Old 04-20-10, 12:04 PM
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Re: Hummers are stupid. But free people have a right to do stupid things.

That's what I'm saying. Hummers are singled out while Ford F-350's with those double back wheels are driving all over the place. Ford Expeditions with 90lb housewives driving them. You'd think if the demise of Hummer was a symbol of something, you'd see other behemoths disappear as well.
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Old 04-20-10, 07:02 PM
  #37  
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Re: Hummers are stupid. But free people have a right to do stupid things.

First of all you all say "Hummer" like it's just one model. If you all are talking about the H1 then yes, it's an outrageously big car, but it's as rare and infrequently seen as a Lamborghini Diablo.

If you are talking about the more common H2 then yes, it's big, but no bigger than a Chevy Suburban (a car that's been manufactured continuously for 45 years) and all full sized pick up trucks, and it's smaller than the Ford Excursion, all dually pick up trucks, and all pannel vans and work trucks.

If you are talking about the H3 than give me a fucking break, it's smaller than a 4runner! It's the size of a god damn Jeep Grand Cherokee!

The true H1 Hummer is so rare that it's like complaining about the carbon emission of classic cars.

Last edited by Mabuse; 04-20-10 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 04-21-10, 09:48 AM
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Re: Hummers are stupid. But free people have a right to do stupid things.

I made the H3 point and the comparison point several times in the thread.
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Old 04-21-10, 12:33 PM
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Re: Hummers are stupid. But free people have a right to do stupid things.

So there really is no argument in this thread. Even Penn Jillette doesn't really have a point. The H1 is a rare bird, the H2 is no bigger than 20 other cars that still proliferate our roads, and the H3 is a compact. They're going to stop making the H1, well woop-dee-do. How many did they sell per year? How many did they sell in the 18 years they were available? 5,000? maybe less. The impact of the car is so small it is statically irrelevant due to its infinitesimal market share.
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Old 04-21-10, 12:44 PM
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Re: Hummers are stupid. But free people have a right to do stupid things.

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
So there really is no argument in this thread. Even Penn Jillette doesn't really have a point. The H1 is a rare bird, the H2 is no bigger than 20 other cars that still proliferate our roads, and the H3 is a compact. They're going to stop making the H1, well woop-dee-do.
I hear they going to stop making H1 in 2006
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hummer_H1


So we have argued for two pages about the evils of a vehicle not sold (new) for four years.
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Old 04-22-10, 01:52 AM
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Re: Hummers are stupid. But free people have a right to do stupid things.

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
Sorry to much of a slippery slope for me. If I like a really green lawn I might water more often. This has an effect on others (I'm not talking drought areas). If I like my house cooler and use more electricity to do it, that effects others. If I don't participate in recycling and just throw all my trash in the regular garbage that effects others.
Well, in the case of the hummer, you're already being taxed for higher fuel consumption in terms of absolute numbers.

Use of utilities is different though. A better example would be if your neighbor decided to use pesticides, and it affected your property.

As for training in driving them...same argument could be made for really fast sports cars, or motorcycles, or cars with manual transmissions...
"Really fast sports cars" carry extremely expensive insurance, precisely because the people who own them tend not to drive them very well.

Motorcycles already require a special license.

And manual transmissions... well, if they don't know how to drive it, they're not going to get very far.

Last edited by Superboy; 04-22-10 at 01:56 AM.
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