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47% of Americans Won't Have to Pay Income Tax This Year

Old 04-09-10, 01:49 PM
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47% of Americans Won't Have to Pay Income Tax This Year

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly...67323.html?x=0



When will our government finally admit that our tax system is a totally fucked up system that needs to be scrapped? It boggles my mind that every year, we Americans have to give more of our hard earned money to someone to prepare our taxes and figure out this mess. I filed myself with 1040EZ and still ran into questions that I didn't understand.


The system is just bloated, confusing, and downright unfair. It rewards people who are married with lots of kids while punishing the single unmarried ones. I made a measely 38K salary last year, and almost 1/3 went to income and state taxes. How is it fair that I have to pay out the butt just so someone else with kids can have more money?

But as long as the 47% continue to enjoy making money tax free, no one is going protest much.
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Old 04-09-10, 01:59 PM
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Re: 47% of Americans Won't Have to Pay Income Tax This Year

The bottom 40 percent, on average, make a profit from the federal income tax, meaning they get more money in tax credits than they would otherwise owe in taxes. For those people, the government sends them a payment.
That part is interesting too.
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Old 04-09-10, 02:17 PM
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Re: 47% of Americans Won't Have to Pay Income Tax This Year

The bottom 40 percent, on average, make a profit from the federal income tax, meaning they get more money in tax credits than they would otherwise owe in taxes. For those people, the government sends them a payment.
Are people seriously just now realizing this? This has gone on forever and has become quite a racket. I've heard of people with more than 3 kids "selling" the names and SS#'s to people that don't have kids and splitting the extra $1000.00 refund. But this is the system we've created.
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Old 04-09-10, 02:22 PM
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Re: 47% of Americans Won't Have to Pay Income Tax This Year

Originally Posted by dvdaddict32 View Post
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly...67323.html?x=0



When will our government finally admit that our tax system is a totally fucked up system that needs to be scrapped? It boggles my mind that every year, we Americans have to give more of our hard earned money to someone to prepare our taxes and figure out this mess. I filed myself with 1040EZ and still ran into questions that I didn't understand.


The system is just bloated, confusing, and downright unfair. It rewards people who are married with lots of kids while punishing the single unmarried ones. I made a measely 38K salary last year, and almost 1/3 went to income and state taxes. How is it fair that I have to pay out the butt just so someone else with kids can have more money?

But as long as the 47% continue to enjoy making money tax free, no one is going protest much.
Let me be the first to thank you. And thanks to a system so complex that paying a CPA saves you so much more. Thanks to a system that has rewarded me so richly by allowing me to appear poor.
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Old 04-09-10, 02:33 PM
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Re: 47% of Americans Won't Have to Pay Income Tax This Year

Originally Posted by dvdaddict32 View Post
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly...67323.html?x=0
It rewards people who are married with lots of kids while punishing the single unmarried ones.
Like it or not, the system has "social engineering" built into it. It rewards home ownership and people with kids, because the government wants to encourage people to go into debt on a home and reproduce in order to make future tax payers. People who rent and don't have kids don't contribute to the economy in as vital a way.
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Old 04-09-10, 02:40 PM
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Re: 47% of Americans Won't Have to Pay Income Tax This Year

Yeah, I read the 47% in the paper the other day. Crazy.

I have no problem with a progressive tax system. But it's pretty clear that pushing everything to the top all the time is not the only way.

If the bottom 47% of people paid only, on average... say, $500, how would that impact the deficit? You could still have people who pay nothing, but very very few. Even if you just get a token $20-$30 from the lowest groups, the impact would be huge and they would be contributing citizens. Are we honestly saying that $20 would break the bank for anyone?

Here is what I propose: If Congress passes new legislation over $10 billion that is supposedly hugely popular to benefit all of America, all Americans should be required to sacrifice a minimum of just $10 for it. From there, you can figure out the rest. I wonder how much this would temper Congress.

$10 is a small price for any human being to pay for a grand national enterprise in their interest such as a war, health care, saving an economy from collapse, putting a man on Mars... anything truly deemed beneficial and necessary.

Until everyone sacrifices something, popularity of actions will be severely flawed.

$10 is probably far too generous, but it's a start. I don't want to go too high considering how many $10 billion bills Congress may put together.

Last edited by Th0r S1mpson; 04-09-10 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 04-09-10, 02:57 PM
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Re: 47% of Americans Won't Have to Pay Income Tax This Year

ExxonMobil paid no federal income tax last year.

Exxon tries to limit the tax pain with the help of 20 wholly owned subsidiaries domiciled in the Bahamas, Bermuda and the Cayman Islands that (legally) shelter the cash flow from operations in the likes of Angola, Azerbaijan and Abu Dhabi. Exxon has tens of billions in earnings permanently reinvested overseas. Likewise, GE has $84 billion in overseas income parked indefinitely outside the U.S. Link
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Old 04-09-10, 02:59 PM
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Re: 47% of Americans Won't Have to Pay Income Tax This Year

I wouldn't expect a corporation to pay income tax. I'd expect corps to pay a corporate tax.

Last edited by Red Dog; 04-09-10 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 04-09-10, 02:59 PM
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Re: 47% of Americans Won't Have to Pay Income Tax This Year

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
Like it or not, the system has "social engineering" built into it. It rewards home ownership and people with kids, because the government wants to encourage people to go into debt on a home and reproduce in order to make future tax payers. People who rent and don't have kids don't contribute to the economy in as vital a way.
But home owners also (unfairly) pay the burden of public schools. Apartment renters reap the benefits of an educated populace but contribute nothing toward it.
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Old 04-09-10, 03:01 PM
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Re: 47% of Americans Won't Have to Pay Income Tax This Year

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
ExxonMobil paid no federal income tax last year.
Huh?

the article you linked says:

ExxonMobil ( XOM - news - people ) in its 2009 annual report to the SEC, recorded a larger income tax expense than any other U.S. company last year, some $15 billion, or 47% of pretax earnings.
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Old 04-09-10, 03:01 PM
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Re: 47% of Americans Won't Have to Pay Income Tax This Year

ExxonMobil should discontinue its practice of complaining about high tax rates that threaten innovation.
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Old 04-09-10, 03:02 PM
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Re: 47% of Americans Won't Have to Pay Income Tax This Year

Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
Huh?

the article you linked says:
None of it is paid to the IRS.
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Old 04-09-10, 03:03 PM
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Re: 47% of Americans Won't Have to Pay Income Tax This Year

Originally Posted by dvdaddict32 View Post
I made a measely 38K salary last year, and almost 1/3 went to income and state taxes.

1/3 = 33.3%

33.3% of $38,000 = $12,654

Federal standard deduciton is $5,700 for single (not assuming any other credits you may get and I know you get at least one)

federal taxable income = $32,300

puts you in the 15% bracket

http://www.maxi-pedia.com/tax+rates+2009+schedule+table

fed tax = $4428 (and I know that number is wrong on the high side, it's probably more like $4000 even)

$12,654 - $4428 = $8226 = your state and local taxes must be high Massachusetts??


and I am not defending the system at all, I paid in a lot more than you and I am not happy about it either, but your posts just looked like an exaggeration to make a point.

I would much rather have a flat tax for all, call welfare what it really is and do away with the credit bullshit at tax time, and move on. The system is way too complicated and only benefits those willing/able to take the time and resources to exploit it. Not a very 'American' system in spirit IMO.
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Old 04-09-10, 03:05 PM
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Re: 47% of Americans Won't Have to Pay Income Tax This Year

Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
Huh?

the article you linked says:
He's so used to bashing that evil Big Oil, he totally glossed over that it was GE that reaps tax rewards.
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Old 04-09-10, 03:06 PM
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Re: 47% of Americans Won't Have to Pay Income Tax This Year

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
None of it is paid to the IRS.
Looks like they say part of it is. Can't seem to find any real numbers. This is the closest I could find:

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/...s+%2B+analysis

According to Securities & Exchange Commission filings, Exxon paid an effective tax rate of 34% to the U.S. government in 2007, or $5.12 billion. While cheaper than rates from some foreign governments, it's still a higher rate than many U.S. companies pay.
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Old 04-09-10, 03:07 PM
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Re: 47% of Americans Won't Have to Pay Income Tax This Year

Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
He's so used to bashing that evil Big Oil, he totally glossed over that it was GE that reaps tax rewards.
I rarely bash "big oil" but if you bothered to read the article rather than ridicule:

Though Exxon's financial statement's don't show any net income tax liability owed to Uncle Sam, a company spokesman insists that once its final tax bill is figured, Exxon will owe a "substantial 2009 tax liability." How substantial? "That's not something we're required to disclose, nor do we."
Insists, dammit!

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Old 04-09-10, 03:07 PM
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Re: 47% of Americans Won't Have to Pay Income Tax This Year

*Note: I think XOM should be paying taxes.
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Old 04-09-10, 03:08 PM
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Re: 47% of Americans Won't Have to Pay Income Tax This Year

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
ExxonMobil paid no federal income tax last year.
It's funny what different people focus on in that article

http://www.forbes.com/2010/04/01/ge-...ate-taxes.html

You point out the tax that wasn't paid

I found this comment much more interesting

But it's the tax benefit of overseas operations that is the biggest reason why multinationals end up with lower tax rates than the rest of us. It only makes sense that multinationals "put costs in high-tax countries and profits in low-tax countries," says Scott Hodge, president of the Tax Foundation. Those low-tax countries are almost anywhere but the U.S. "When you add in state taxes, the U.S. has the highest tax burden among industrialized countries," says Hodge.
Maybe if we didn't force companies to hide revenue where there is less of a tax burden, more of it would be paid here? I know, you think that is just silly
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Old 04-09-10, 03:08 PM
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Re: 47% of Americans Won't Have to Pay Income Tax This Year

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
But home owners also (unfairly) pay the burden of public schools. Apartment renters reap the benefits of an educated populace but contribute nothing toward it.
Trust me, it is build in to rent.
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Old 04-09-10, 03:10 PM
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Re: 47% of Americans Won't Have to Pay Income Tax This Year

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
Trust me, it is build in to rent.
Property taxes are paid by landlords? You don't say. Don't tell me you pay for repairs and stuff too!
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Old 04-09-10, 03:13 PM
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Re: 47% of Americans Won't Have to Pay Income Tax This Year

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
Trust me, it is build in to rent.
I'm sure.

I've always said that the single, childless, non-business owning, renters are the ones who get fucked over the most on taxes.
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Old 04-09-10, 03:13 PM
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Re: 47% of Americans Won't Have to Pay Income Tax This Year

Originally Posted by 4KRG View Post
Maybe if we didn't force companies to hide revenue where there is less of a tax burden, more of it would be paid here? I know, you think that is just silly
Perhaps if these companies considered themselves "American" they wouldn't have a need to subscribe to these practices. They are "American" when it suits them.
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Old 04-09-10, 03:13 PM
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Re: 47% of Americans Won't Have to Pay Income Tax This Year

Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
HOWEVER, I'd be for any tax overhaul that raised sales taxes (and did away completely with all sales tax exemptions) and did away with all other taxation.
I'd have to hear how high sales tax would have to be in that model before I agree or disagree. But I'm pretty sure I disagree. I think sales tax would be through the roof. And even though rich people like to spend money, they also like to not spend money. I'm not sure this would get into their pockets enough to fund the country without breaking the backs of those at the bottom.
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Old 04-09-10, 03:13 PM
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Re: 47% of Americans Won't Have to Pay Income Tax This Year

I probably paid more taxes last year than you earned in a year.
That sounds substantial -- how substantial?
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Old 04-09-10, 03:16 PM
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Re: 47% of Americans Won't Have to Pay Income Tax This Year

Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
From someone in that 47% (me):

Other than sales tax, I haven't paid more than $1000 tax in my entire life. Chew on that! The system is SOOOO easy to work through and manipulate...it's astounding that anyone pays, let alone 53%. HOWEVER, I'd be for any tax overhaul that raised sales taxes (and did away completely with all sales tax exemptions) and did away with all other taxation. It's the most fair (read: ONLY) way to "equalize" taxation in this country, and would probably raise tax revenues very quickly.

The gist is, 'til this system works better (and you can take that to mean "does what I think is best"), I won't pay, and there's nothing anyone can do to make me under the current system, as it's so easy to manipulate. But if you DO want me to pay, set up sales tax, as I've outlined above, and only THEN will I (and everyone else) pay my (their) fair share.
I agree with you, but the argument with not allowing exemptions on sales tax is that it takes a certain amount of money for everyone to live, with groceries, clothes, etc. etc. So you end up putting an "unfair" burden on the poorest people who have income for those things. Now that never stops states from putting another $1 on tobacco which affects the poorest most, but that is the rationale.

Ultimately, I am for one system or another. When they introduce 2 systems, they now have 2 systems to raise, and they will.
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