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Wealth redistribution discussion (split from cartoon thread)

Old 04-08-10, 09:36 PM
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Wealth redistribution discussion (split from cartoon thread)

<i>Mod note: Original cartoon was posted here http://forum.dvdtalk.com/10095538-post374.html the discussion was split out to this thread to prevent the cartoon thread from getting bogged down

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Originally Posted by TheBigDave View Post
Lucky Ducky!

Apropos of that cartoon, here are two graphs that will show just how much we redistribute wealth in this country:

Spoiler:



The Gini Coefficient is a measure of wealth distribution in a population. If the coefficient is 0, everybody has the same amount of wealth. If it's 1, it means that 1 person has all of the wealth and everybody else has none.

Last edited by nemein; 04-09-10 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 04-09-10, 12:27 AM
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Re: The Random Political Cartoon Thread

Fucking Boo Hoo. We don't give people as much of other people's money as they do in other countries.

Now let's see how that graph correlates with GDP.
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Old 04-09-10, 01:39 AM
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Re: The Random Political Cartoon Thread

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
Fucking Boo Hoo. We don't give people as much of other people's money as they do in other countries.
Fucking Boo Hoo. Don't post a political cartoon complaining about how rich people have to buy hybrid cars for poor people. And yes, I know you're not the one who posted it.

Now let's see how that graph correlates with GDP.
There is not any correlation as far as I am aware.


That's the best graph I could find on the internet. Maybe wendersfan will take pity on us and post something.
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Old 04-09-10, 02:16 AM
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Re: The Random Political Cartoon Thread

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Fucking Boo Hoo. Don't post a political cartoon complaining about how rich people have to buy hybrid cars for poor people. And yes, I know you're not the one who posted it.
They helped pay for them for rich as well. The golf cart that my father bought for $7,000 gave him a tax credit of $4,300. Hard to believe that would slip through. Now imagine what will slip through in a 2,000+ health care bill that we had to pass to know what's in it.

And there does look to be a correlation in the graph, but I wouldn't know how strong. It seems obvious from just a glance that once you go over the 40 mark for the Gini index, you have only a single point at $15,000 per capita GDP, while most are bottom feeders. However, before the Gini 40 mark it appears that approximately 50% are at or above the $20,000 in GDP per capita. The graph looks relatively close to a "\" across the Gini score to me. Do you not see that? In fact, it looks like a fairly strong correlation. Go over 40 on the Gini index, and you have a per capital GDP and the best you can hope for is roughly the median of those below it.
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Old 04-09-10, 02:18 AM
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Re: The Random Political Cartoon Thread

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
The more I look, the more glaring it is. Draw a vertical line at the 40 Gini index line, and a horizontal line at the $15,000 GDP per capita line and see if it stands out more.
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Old 04-09-10, 09:52 AM
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Re: The Random Political Cartoon Thread

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
The more I look, the more glaring it is. Draw a vertical line at the 40 Gini index line, and a horizontal line at the $15,000 GDP per capita line and see if it stands out more.


I'm not sure there is a relationship so much as there is a rule of thumb -- relatively unequal countries are poor -- that we manage to break. But you have low-Gini rich countries and low-Gini poor countries, which suggests to me that whether you're rich or poor has little to do with your Gini score. And you have low-Gini poor countries and high-Gini poor countries, which suggests to me that Giini isn't necessarily a function of GDP. But this is why we need wendersfan to run a regression for us.

Last edited by JasonF; 04-09-10 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 04-09-10, 11:38 AM
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Re: The Random Political Cartoon Thread

Can't tell without knowing what other countries the other dots represent, but regardless, there is no doubt there is a good correlation. I'll go bother Wenders.
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Old 04-09-10, 12:02 PM
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Re: The Random Political Cartoon Thread

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
But this is why we need wendersfan to run a regression for us.
Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
Can't tell without knowing what other countries the other dots represent, but regardless, there is no doubt there is a good correlation. I'll go bother Wenders.
I already told Dave this in a PM, but right now I'm a little busy with work.

Probably this afternoon?
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Old 04-09-10, 12:06 PM
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Re: The Random Political Cartoon Thread

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
I already told Dave this in a PM, but right now I'm a little busy with work.

Probably this afternoon?
Work. Pfft.

You should just quit your job and have the guy from TheBigDave's cartoon pay for all your expenses.
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Old 04-09-10, 12:09 PM
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Re: The Random Political Cartoon Thread

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Old 04-09-10, 12:39 PM
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Re: The Random Political Cartoon Thread

OK, I have the data in R. What do you want done with it?

BTW, I got the data from www.nationmaster.com, so it probably isn't exactly the same as the data used in Jason's graphs.

I'm going to lunch now, so I can do your analysis when I get back.
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Old 04-09-10, 12:53 PM
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Re: The Random Political Cartoon Thread

How does forcing more people to buy insurance raise the price?
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Old 04-09-10, 12:54 PM
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Re: The Random Political Cartoon Thread

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
How does forcing more people to buy insurance raise the price?
It's a long story. We have a thread about it. Don't take that cartoon too seriously.
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Old 04-09-10, 01:03 PM
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Re: The Random Political Cartoon Thread

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
OK, I have the data in R. What do you want done with it?

BTW, I got the data from www.nationmaster.com, so it probably isn't exactly the same as the data used in Jason's graphs.

I'm going to lunch now, so I can do your analysis when I get back.
Find the correlation coeficient between the Gini index and the DGP per capita, if you could. Then explain to JasonF how strong it is.
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Old 04-09-10, 01:05 PM
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Re: The Random Political Cartoon Thread

Oh, then look up good contractors so that we can see if we can fix his bubble after it bursts.
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Old 04-09-10, 01:08 PM
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Re: The Random Political Cartoon Thread

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
How does forcing more people to buy insurance raise the price?
supply and demand?

More demand with constant supply (assuming supply is inelastic)
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Old 04-09-10, 01:24 PM
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Re: The Random Political Cartoon Thread

Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
supply and demand?

More demand with constant supply (assuming supply is inelastic)
Why would you make that assumption?
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Old 04-09-10, 01:25 PM
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Re: The Random Political Cartoon Thread

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Why would you make that assumption?
I'm not, but was just proposing an answer.

I think some people see a shortage of medical resources already so it isn't a stretch to assume there would be at least a short term gap between supply and demand
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Old 04-09-10, 02:01 PM
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Re: Wealth redistribution discussion (split from cartoon thread)

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
<i>Mod note: Original cartoon was posted here http://forum.dvdtalk.com/10095538-post374.html the discussion was split out to this thread to prevent the cartoon thread from getting bogged down

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Excellent idea. Thanks for doing so, and apologies to everyone for bogging down the cartoon thread.
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Old 04-09-10, 02:05 PM
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Re: The Random Political Cartoon Thread

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Work. Pfft.

You should just quit your job and have the guy from TheBigDave's cartoon pay for all your expenses.
The rich guy from TheBigDave's cartoon already does (did) pay wendersfan's expenses. wendersfan is (was) a public employee.
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Old 04-09-10, 02:17 PM
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Re: Wealth redistribution discussion (split from cartoon thread)

I just showed my boss how to stream Masters coverage from his computer, so I'm clear for the rest of the afternoon.
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Old 04-09-10, 02:27 PM
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Re: Wealth redistribution discussion (split from cartoon thread)

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Old 04-09-10, 03:27 PM
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Re: Wealth redistribution discussion (split from cartoon thread)

OK, is this what you guys wanted?:





The correlation between the Gini coefficient and GDP/capita is -0.416 (n = 130.)
The correlation between the Gini coefficient and GDP_PPP/capita is -0.411 (n = 130.)
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Old 04-09-10, 03:41 PM
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Re: Wealth redistribution discussion (split from cartoon thread)

To help give us perspective, here is an example of of a very strong relationship from Wiki.
<img src=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/Anscombe%27s_quartet_3.svg/325px-Anscombe%27s_quartet_3.svg.png>
All 4 actually show a .816 coefficient.
So Wenders, tell us about the strength or lack of strength with a coefficient of around -.41
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Old 04-09-10, 03:54 PM
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Re: Wealth redistribution discussion (split from cartoon thread)

It's a strong relationship, e.g:

Code:
> summary(lm.gdp)

Call:
lm(formula = gdp ~ gini)

Residuals:
   Min     1Q Median     3Q    Max 
-17158  -9618  -3841   4963  72752 

Coefficients:
            Estimate Std. Error t value Pr(>|t|)    
(Intercept)  37440.4     5413.7   6.916 1.98e-10 ***
gini          -670.6      129.3  -5.188 8.11e-07 ***
---
Signif. codes:  0 ‘***’ 0.001 ‘**’ 0.01 ‘*’ 0.05 ‘.’ 0.1 ‘ ’ 1 

Residual standard error: 14590 on 128 degrees of freedom
Multiple R-squared: 0.1737,     Adjusted R-squared: 0.1673 
F-statistic: 26.91 on 1 and 128 DF,  p-value: 8.105e-07 

------------------------------------------------

> summary(lm.gdp_ppp)

Call:
lm(formula = gdp_ppp ~ gini)

Residuals:
   Min     1Q Median     3Q    Max 
-18626  -9416  -2409   6800  60542 

Coefficients:
            Estimate Std. Error t value Pr(>|t|)    
(Intercept)  37521.5     4976.2    7.54 7.60e-12 ***
gini          -606.0      118.8   -5.10 1.19e-06 ***
---
Signif. codes:  0 ‘***’ 0.001 ‘**’ 0.01 ‘*’ 0.05 ‘.’ 0.1 ‘ ’ 1 

Residual standard error: 13410 on 128 degrees of freedom
Multiple R-squared: 0.1689,     Adjusted R-squared: 0.1624 
F-statistic: 26.01 on 1 and 128 DF,  p-value: 1.193e-06
Two things:

1. All those funny dots and stuff mean that the hypothesis is assumed to be sound at the 0.001 level, meaning that there's a 1 in 1000 chance that it's spurious. It's a strong relationship.

2. But it doesn't appear to be a linear relationship. What appears to happening is that at low levels of GDP/capita, there's no relationship at all, then it shifts up rather dramatically.

However, I did a logarithmic transformation of GDP/capita, and then the relationship weakened. So I'm a bit baffled.
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