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View Poll Results: What do you think about this police dept.'s actions?
They are heroes for stopping a potential disaster
1
5.88%
This is too much like "Precrime" in Minority Report
16
94.12%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

Oregon Precrime Department

Old 03-11-10, 12:08 PM
  #1  
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Oregon Precrime Department

In a nutshell, a man was fired from a state government agency. After being fired, the man purchased three guns (legally).

Since those are the actions of a man that could go on a killing rampage, his legally-obtained property was confiscated and the man was committed into a mental health facility.

http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs...9/NEWS/3090315 (this article seems really short on details)

No charges have been filed and the man has committed no crimes. Looking at the comments, it appears that the police may not have obtained a search warrant.

Are the police heroes for potentially saving lives because the possibility exists that he could have killed someone? Or does this seem too much like "Minority Report" where people's civil liberties are at risk based on nothing but a hunch that something bad could have happened.
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Old 03-11-10, 12:18 PM
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Re: Oregon Precrime Department

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
In a nutshell, a man was fired from a state government agency. After being fired, the man purchased three guns (legally).

Since those are the actions of a man that could go on a killing rampage, his legally-obtained property was confiscated and the man was committed into a mental health facility.

http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs...9/NEWS/3090315 (this article seems really short on details)

No charges have been filed and the man has committed no crimes. Looking at the comments, it appears that the police may not have obtained a search warrant.

Are the police heroes for potentially saving lives because the possibility exists that he could have killed someone? Or does this seem too much like "Minority Report" where people's civil liberties are at risk based on nothing but a hunch that something bad could have happened.
I think it depends on how crazy the son of a bitch is (or seems).
(Being a fired state employee is enough to raise suspicions).
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Old 03-11-10, 12:24 PM
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Re: Oregon Precrime Department

It seems that there may be more to the story that hasn't been released:

ODOT Communications Director Patrick Cooney said there were administrative, personnel matters involved that limited what the department could discuss.

However, the state agency had reported concerns about the man to law enforcement agencies, who started monitoring him, officials said.

"We had concerning information regarding a personnel issue and were watching the subject," Jackson County Sheriff Mike Winters said.
I'm guessing threats were made, but I really don't know either way.
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Old 03-11-10, 02:06 PM
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Re: Oregon Precrime Department

Anyone who would buy guns is automatically crazy and suspect. Regardless of being fired and threats he should have been arrested and imprisoned for life for that act alone.
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Old 03-11-10, 02:07 PM
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Re: Oregon Precrime Department

Originally Posted by DeputyDave View Post
Anyone who would buy guns is automatically crazy and suspect. Regardless of being fired and threats he should have been arrested and imprisoned for life for that act alone.
I must respectfully disagree.
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Old 03-11-10, 08:09 PM
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Re: Oregon Precrime Department

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
I must respectfully disagree.
Disagreement with societal norms should also be an arrestable offence.
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Old 03-12-10, 01:27 AM
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Re: Oregon Precrime Department

Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
Need more info before I commit to an answer.
Of course!
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Old 03-12-10, 02:49 AM
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Re: Oregon Precrime Department

Need more info
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Old 03-12-10, 03:04 AM
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Re: Oregon Precrime Department

Maybe he was just planning a trip to Starbucks.
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Old 03-12-10, 09:20 AM
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Re: Oregon Precrime Department

It does seem very bizarre. If there were threats, the guy should be arrested. If he's having psychological issues and is a danger to himself or others, he should be temporarily committed. Maybe it's tough to have someone committed in Oregon, so the 'protective custody' is just a substitute.
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Old 03-16-10, 02:20 PM
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Re: Oregon Precrime Department

More info: http://reason.com/archives/2010/03/1...crime-policing

"On Friday the Medford Police Department put out a second press release, this time announcing that the agency had returned the "disgruntled" worker's guns, and "now considers this matter closed."

Also:
David Pyles hadn't committed any crime, nor was he suspected of having committed one. The police never obtained a warrant for either search or arrest. They never consulted with a judge or mental health professional before sending out the military-style tactical teams to take Pyle in.

"They woke me up with a phone call at about 5:50 in the morning," Pyles told me in a phone interview Friday. "I looked out the window and saw the SWAT team pointing their guns at my house. The officer on the phone told me to turn myself in. I told them I would, on three conditions: I would not be handcuffed. I would not be taken off my property. And I would not be forced to get a mental health evaluation. He agreed. The second I stepped outside, they jumped me. Then they handcuffed me, took me off my property, and took me to get a mental health evaluation."

By noon the same day, Pyles had already been released from the Rogue Valley Medical Center with a clean bill of mental health. Four days later the Medford Police Department returned Pyle’s guns, despite telling him earlier in the week—falsely—that he'd need to undergo a second background check before he could get them back.
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Old 03-16-10, 02:27 PM
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Re: Oregon Precrime Department



Should they arrest and commit someone who has committed no crime?

Yeah this is confusing, I need a LOT more info before I make a call here.

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Old 03-16-10, 02:59 PM
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Re: Oregon Precrime Department

Based on him being released, gus returned, etc. I think they made a major screw up. Hopefully they get sued. That's the type of press that will keep a guy from being able to get a job in the future, even though it turned out to be nothing.
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Old 03-16-10, 07:52 PM
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Re: Oregon Precrime Department

I think that the exact manner in which these police allegedly acted was overly aggressive, of questionable legality and probably violated Pyles' civil rights, let's set that aside for a moment. Consider only the following sentence in a vacuum:

Concerns about an Oregon Department of Transportation employee who purchased several guns after being placed on leave prompted law enforcement across Southern Oregon to step in.
Does anyone have a problem with what is conceptually described in that sentence? I think that is the real interesting discussion to be had here.
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Old 03-17-10, 06:44 AM
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Re: Oregon Precrime Department

Originally Posted by jfoobar View Post
I think that the exact manner in which these police allegedly acted was overly aggressive, of questionable legality and probably violated Pyles' civil rights, let's set that aside for a moment. Consider only the following sentence in a vacuum:



Does anyone have a problem with what is conceptually described in that sentence? I think that is the real interesting discussion to be had here.

You mean besides the fact that he was put into custody for committing no crime?
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Old 03-17-10, 07:27 AM
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Re: Oregon Precrime Department

Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse View Post


Should they arrest and commit someone who has committed no crime?

Yeah this is confusing, I need a LOT more info before I make a call here.

Surely you understand the fundamental legal drawback to precrime methodology?
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Old 03-17-10, 07:28 AM
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Re: Oregon Precrime Department

Originally Posted by crazyronin View Post
You mean besides the fact that he was put into custody for committing no crime?
Do you have a problem with the concept of the police identifying that the man had been put on leave at work and then bought 3 guns and acting proactively without any other evidence that the man was going to commit a crime?

What "acting proactively" should mean is a different, and difficult, discussion. As I said, the facts suggest that the police likely overdid it in this case. On the other hand, I don't entirely believe the man's story either.
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Old 03-17-10, 12:24 PM
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Re: Oregon Precrime Department

Originally Posted by jfoobar View Post
Do you have a problem with the concept of the police identifying that the man had been put on leave at work and then bought 3 guns and acting proactively without any other evidence that the man was going to commit a crime?
How difficult would it have been to get a warrant under those circumstances?
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Old 03-17-10, 06:23 PM
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Re: Oregon Precrime Department

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
How difficult would it have been to get a warrant under those circumstances?
Would it have mattered if they got a warrant? The guy purchased the guns legally. No crime was committed - the guns would have been returned either way.
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Old 03-17-10, 07:10 PM
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Re: Oregon Precrime Department

Originally Posted by jfoobar View Post
Do you have a problem with the concept of the police identifying that the man had been put on leave at work and then bought 3 guns and acting proactively without any other evidence that the man was going to commit a crime?

What "acting proactively" should mean is a different, and difficult, discussion. As I said, the facts suggest that the police likely overdid it in this case. On the other hand, I don't entirely believe the man's story either.
I would have no problem if they put him under surveillance with the Intelligence Unit. I do have a problem with them arresting, confining and confiscating the property of this man for engaging in a legal activity.
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Old 03-17-10, 07:20 PM
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Re: Oregon Precrime Department

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
How difficult would it have been to get a warrant under those circumstances?
It should have been impossible.
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