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Health Care part VII

Old 02-23-10, 01:50 PM
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Health Care part VII

Previous thread - Part 6 here

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Old 02-23-10, 01:52 PM
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Re: Health Care part VII

I know severely obese people who have had plenty of checkups. Being told you have all those things doesn't always equate to better health, unfortunately. There is still choice involved after receiving information. Some people respond better than others. It's a wake-up call for many, which is a good thing. They think they can do whatever they want without knowing the true ramifications on their health.

But wellness checks aren't the only answer. I honestly think we could have a bigger impact on our nation using mandatory viewings of selected Oprah re-runs.
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Old 02-23-10, 01:59 PM
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Re: Health Care part VII

When a Canadian leader comes to the US for healthcare,either the US is doing something right or Canada is doing something wrong.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/can...Yz_6_b-gsGGDxA
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Old 02-23-10, 02:03 PM
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Re: Health Care part VII

Originally Posted by CRM
Would this hypothetical plan cover annual exams and sick visits for free? If not, it just exacerbates the problems of poor health which become much more costly down the road without intervention.
The only thing insurance paying for sick visits and annual exams does is hide the cost of medical treatment. Also, I don't believe for a second that large scale prevention does reduce costs (in the aggregate long run). You should have annual visits because it is good for you. Not to reduce costs.
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Old 02-23-10, 02:08 PM
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Re: Health Care part VII

Originally Posted by orangecrush View Post
The only thing insurance paying for sick visits and annual exams does is hide the cost of medical treatment. Also, I don't believe for a second that large scale prevention does reduce costs (in the aggregate long run). You should have annual visits because it is good for you. Not to reduce costs.
No, the other thing it does is entice people into going to the doctor instead of sitting at home infecting other people or ignoring clear warning signs of other serious issues.

Annual visits are good for you AND they reduce long term costs. They are inseparable.

Last edited by CRM114; 02-23-10 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 02-23-10, 02:12 PM
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Re: Health Care part VII

This thread is reminding me again that I really need to get a checkup one of these days.
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Old 02-23-10, 02:12 PM
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Re: Health Care part VII

Originally Posted by burnside986 View Post
When a Canadian leader comes to the US for healthcare,either the US is doing something right or Canada is doing something wrong.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/can...Yz_6_b-gsGGDxA
It tells me a country with a population less than California didn't have this kind of specialist in their country.
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Old 02-23-10, 02:49 PM
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Re: Health Care part VII

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
It tells me a country with a population less than California didn't have this kind of specialist in their country.
It seems to me that this is just another example of Canada free-riding through selective exploitation of the US healthcare system, just like their cheap prices for prescription drugs. If the US did not exist, Canada would not have these options and their system would have to be different (probably worse, certainly more expensive) as a result.
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Old 02-23-10, 02:51 PM
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Re: Health Care part VII

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
No, the other thing it does is entice people into going to the doctor instead of sitting at home infecting other people or ignoring clear warning signs of other serious issues.

Annual visits are good for you AND they reduce long term costs. They are inseparable.
It can also lead to distortions in the perception of “free” care. Look at the outrage over annual mammogram guidelines. Mammograms aren't exactly fun things to have done. You would think that women would jump up and down with joy over the prospect of forgoing an expensive unpleasant screening for years.
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Old 02-23-10, 02:52 PM
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Re: Health Care part VII

It will be interesting to see just how long the Thursday's White House 'love-fest' lasts.

What's your prediction?
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Old 02-23-10, 02:56 PM
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Re: Health Care part VII

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100223/..._care_overhaul

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., said comprehensive reform would be best but it's not all or nothing.

"We may not be able to do all. I hope we can do all, a comprehensive piece of legislation that will provide affordable, accessible, quality health care to all Americans," Hoyer said at his weekly media briefing. "But having said that, if we can't, then you know me — if you can't do a whole, doing part is also good. I mean there are a number of things I think we can agree on."

Does he include the Repubs when he says 'there a number of things I think we can agree on'?
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Old 02-23-10, 03:49 PM
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Re: Health Care part VII

Originally Posted by orangecrush View Post
It can also lead to distortions in the perception of “free” care. Look at the outrage over annual mammogram guidelines. Mammograms aren't exactly fun things to have done. You would think that women would jump up and down with joy over the prospect of forgoing an expensive unpleasant screening for years.
The mammogram thing had a bit more context than you make out.
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Old 02-23-10, 03:51 PM
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Re: Health Care part VII

Did someone answer my question earlier? Why don't the Democrats allow the Repubs to filibuster, eventually fail, and pass what they want with 51 votes? The filibuster can only make the Repubs look bad.

Doesn't this achieve the same thing as a Reconciliation vote without breaking the rules?
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Old 02-23-10, 03:54 PM
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Re: Health Care part VII

http://whipcongress.com/

Dem Senators who support the Public Option. Surprisingly, PA Senators Arlen Specter does and Robert Casey (according to this list) does not.
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Old 02-23-10, 04:09 PM
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Re: Health Care part VII

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Did someone answer my question earlier? Why don't the Democrats allow the Repubs to filibuster, eventually fail, and pass what they want with 51 votes?
Because the unity they found in the previous attempt will be harder to come by the next time around.
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Old 02-23-10, 04:22 PM
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Re: Health Care part VII

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Did someone answer my question earlier? Why don't the Democrats allow the Repubs to filibuster, eventually fail, and pass what they want with 51 votes? The filibuster can only make the Repubs look bad.

Doesn't this achieve the same thing as a Reconciliation vote without breaking the rules?
That is something I don't really get. Why do we have filibusters w/o Senators reading the dictionary? If you are going to filibuster, have the balls to do it right.
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Old 02-23-10, 04:26 PM
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Re: Health Care part VII

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Did someone answer my question earlier? Why don't the Democrats allow the Repubs to filibuster, eventually fail, and pass what they want with 51 votes? The filibuster can only make the Repubs look bad.

Doesn't this achieve the same thing as a Reconciliation vote without breaking the rules?
Because fillibusters don't work the way you think they do from watching Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. Debate in the Senate continues until cloture is reached. It takes 60 votes for cloture. If you don't have 60 votes, you don't have cloture and you can't vote on the bill.

The other suggestion people make is to "make the Republicans actually fillibuster and read from the phone book." The problem is that they won't read from the phone book. They'll read papers from the Heritage Foundation and similar think tanks -- there's more than enough of these "blowhard welfare" shops to keep the politicians in phony talking points in perpetuity.
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Old 02-23-10, 04:41 PM
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Re: Health Care part VII

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Because fillibusters don't work the way you think they do from watching Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. Debate in the Senate continues until cloture is reached. It takes 60 votes for cloture. If you don't have 60 votes, you don't have cloture and you can't vote on the bill.

The other suggestion people make is to "make the Republicans actually fillibuster and read from the phone book." The problem is that they won't read from the phone book. They'll read papers from the Heritage Foundation and similar think tanks -- there's more than enough of these "blowhard welfare" shops to keep the politicians in phony talking points in perpetuity.
Why must you and C-man constantly assault the idyllic image of Washington that Jimmy gave me?
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Old 02-23-10, 04:48 PM
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Re: Health Care part VII

I want somebody to print off reams of printscreens for 4chan and read that in a filibuster.
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Old 02-23-10, 04:59 PM
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Re: Health Care part VII

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Because fillibusters don't work the way you think they do from watching Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. Debate in the Senate continues until cloture is reached. It takes 60 votes for cloture. If you don't have 60 votes, you don't have cloture and you can't vote on the bill.

The other suggestion people make is to "make the Republicans actually fillibuster and read from the phone book." The problem is that they won't read from the phone book. They'll read papers from the Heritage Foundation and similar think tanks -- there's more than enough of these "blowhard welfare" shops to keep the politicians in phony talking points in perpetuity.
And another thing - most people don't realize that much of the business conducted in the Senate must be done by unanimous consent.
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Old 02-23-10, 07:38 PM
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Re: Health Care part VII

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
I want somebody to print off reams of printscreens for 4chan and read that in a filibuster.


That would be so incredibly awesome that i would watch C-Span.
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Old 02-23-10, 08:23 PM
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Re: Health Care part VII

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Did someone answer my question earlier? Why don't the Democrats allow the Repubs to filibuster, eventually fail, and pass what they want with 51 votes? The filibuster can only make the Repubs look bad.

Doesn't this achieve the same thing as a Reconciliation vote without breaking the rules?
Since the public is not too enthralled with the health care bill(s) so far, why would make the Repubs look bad?

I think you're confused. Cloture has to be invoked (60 votes) before a simple majority is sufficient for passage.

btw: Sen. Byrd, one of the authors of the reconciliation process, is still opposed to it being used. He says it violates both the rule & the spirit of the rule.
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Old 02-23-10, 08:36 PM
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Re: Health Care part VII

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
It tells me a country with a population less than California didn't have this kind of specialist in their country.
Canada has no cardiac surgeons?
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Old 02-23-10, 10:51 PM
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Re: Health Care part VII

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
Canada has no cardiac surgeons?
Apparently no good ones at least.

Upon reading the linked article, I thought it was kind of amusing that the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador had to go to New Jersey in order to consult with the most talented heart surgeon that Newfoundland has produced.
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Old 02-24-10, 08:44 AM
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Re: Health Care part VII

Sen. Reid is sometimes humorous.

He says he doesn't know why the Repubs are so up in arms about the threat by him to use the nuclear option - reconciliation. He says, correctly, that it's been used 19 times in the past few years - mostly by the Repubs. What he fails to mention is that 18 of those times it was appropriate (the rules were followed) in using the reconciliation.
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