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Repeal 'don't ask, don't tell'?

Old 02-03-10, 04:58 PM
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Repeal 'don't ask, don't tell'?

Both stories from Washington Post.
Colin Powell shifts stance on 'don't ask, don't tell' policy
...
Retired Army Gen. Colin L. Powell, who opposed allowing gay men and lesbians to serve openly in the armed forces when he was the nation's top military officer, said Wednesday that he supports efforts to lift the ban on their service.
McCain appears to shift on 'don't ask, don't tell'
...
"The day that the leadership of the military comes to me and says, 'Senator, we ought to change the policy,' then I think we ought to consider seriously changing it," McCain said in October 2006 to an audience of Iowa State University students.

That day arrived Tuesday, with Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates and Joint Chiefs Chairman Mike Mullen testifying to senators after President Obama's announcement that he would seek a congressional repeal of the 15-year-old policy.

Mullen called repealing the policy, which bans openly gay men and lesbians from serving, "the right thing to do" and said he was personally troubled by effectively forcing service members to "lie about who they are in order to defend their fellow citizens."

Gates told the Armed Services Committee, "I fully support the president's decision."

In response, McCain declared himself "disappointed" in the testimony. "At this moment of immense hardship for our armed services, we should not be seeking to overturn the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy," he said bluntly, before describing it as "imperfect but effective."
Seems like it's time to change the policy.
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Old 02-03-10, 05:02 PM
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Re: Repeal 'don't ask, don't tell'?

I'm fine with it so long as the actual, current military leaders sign off on it.
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Old 02-03-10, 05:13 PM
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Re: Repeal 'don't ask, don't tell'?

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
I'm fine with it so long as the actual, current military leaders sign off on it.
That used to be my attitude, but with the Ft. Hood shooter incident showing how even the armed forces can be infected with political correctness to the point of it costing lives and affecting their effectiveness, I don't hold that as the yardstick anymore.

As far as gays in the military, if their actual behavior isn't disruptive, then I don't think their orientation in and of itself should be grounds for dismissal from the armed forces.
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Old 02-03-10, 05:29 PM
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Re: Repeal 'don't ask, don't tell'?

Well, I don't want to know if the military leaders are fine with it because they were pressured, I want to know what they really think. And since I am a peon, I'll never know. I honestly could care less if the military only allowed left handed women, if that is what made the military the absolute best it could be.
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Old 02-03-10, 06:01 PM
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Re: Repeal 'don't ask, don't tell'?

Seems like it's about time for this and that they are handling it appropriately and doing the necessary groundwork.

The military isn't one of those places where you treat people a certain way just because it's nice, right, or fair. Unfortunately, you need to weigh a lot of factors and obviously there can be goals of better treatment all around.

This seems like a positive direction for the policy.
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Old 02-03-10, 06:02 PM
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Re: Repeal 'don't ask, don't tell'?

ask, tell
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Old 02-03-10, 07:28 PM
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Re: Repeal 'don't ask, don't tell'?

I heard a congressmen from California defending DADT yesterday and it was brilliant. It ultimately boiled down to the fact military people are conservatives and conservatives are creeped out by gays watching them in the bathroom. He was also very concerned about the slippery slope of letting hermaphrodites and transgenders in next.
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Old 02-03-10, 07:30 PM
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Re: Repeal 'don't ask, don't tell'?

Hermaphrodites. This is the conservative viewpoint. If we repeal DADT, we will have hermaphrodites rushing to enlist.

BLOCK: You are not in favor of a repeal of dont ask, dont tell. Why not?

Rep. HUNTER: No, because I think that its bad for the cohesiveness and the unity of the military units, especially those that are in close combat, that are in close quarters in country right now. Its not the time to do it. I think its - the military is not civilian life. And I think the folks who have been in the military that have been in these very close situations with each other, there has to be a special bond there. And I think that bond is broken if you open up the military to transgenders, to hermaphrodites, to gays and lesbians.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=123287737
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Old 02-03-10, 07:52 PM
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Re: Repeal 'don't ask, don't tell'?

I will say that as much as some groups may not have liked DADT, you wouldn't be able to have this conversation without it being around this long.
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Old 02-03-10, 07:58 PM
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Re: Repeal 'don't ask, don't tell'?

It's a good conversation to be having. And once you start thinking outside the box, it's not hard to see the usefulness of an entire platoon of Tranny's.
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Old 02-03-10, 08:09 PM
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Re: Repeal 'don't ask, don't tell'?

Originally Posted by Thor Simpson View Post
It's a good conversation to be having. And once you start thinking outside the box, it's not hard to see the usefulness of an entire platoon of Tranny's.
Hell, just unleash a whole platoon of nude hermaphrodites at the enemy...they will be too stunned to shoot back.
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Old 02-03-10, 08:22 PM
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Re: Repeal 'don't ask, don't tell'?

I don't think they should be in the military. Every time somebody sucks at Call of Duty everybody call him the f-word, which indicates to me that gays have bad aim.
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Old 02-04-10, 10:08 AM
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Re: Repeal 'don't ask, don't tell'?

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
I don't think they should be in the military. Every time somebody sucks at Call of Duty everybody call him the f-word, which indicates to me that gays have bad aim.
Once again, video games teach us everything we need to know about life.
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Old 02-04-10, 10:17 AM
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Re: Repeal 'don't ask, don't tell'?

I don't believe that Gates supports the president's decision.

I just believe he's put into an akward position where he 'has' to support it, just as he did a couple of times when he served in the Bush cabinet.
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Old 02-04-10, 10:19 AM
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Re: Repeal 'don't ask, don't tell'?

Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post
I don't believe that Gates supports the president's decision.

I just believe he's put into an akward position where he 'has' to support it, just as he did a couple of times when he served in the Bush cabinet.
Is there any evidence to support this belief?
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Old 02-04-10, 10:21 AM
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Re: Repeal 'don't ask, don't tell'?

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
I'm fine with it so long as the actual, current military leaders sign off on it.
Like the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff?
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Old 02-04-10, 10:42 AM
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Re: Repeal 'don't ask, don't tell'?

The chairman is like Gates - he works for the president.

What do you expect him (them) to do?

I guess they could do like a number of field grade officers did under Clinton - resign.

When did a the last cabinet secretary resign over policy disagreement(s) with the president?
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Old 02-04-10, 11:55 AM
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Re: Repeal 'don't ask, don't tell'?

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
I wasn't saying I didn't think there were any, or that I needed proof.

Also, like I said, I would never be in a position to know what they really think because I wouldn't go off of a public announcement from them.
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Old 02-04-10, 12:17 PM
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Re: Repeal 'don't ask, don't tell'?

When I went into the military the first they did was split up the men and women and put them into different training flights (or platoons etc depending on the service). The reason was simply that they wanted people to stay 100% focused on their training and to accomplish that they wanted to avoid the flirting and gawking that happens when the men and women are put together.

As far as I know nobody has fought that decision since it does seem to make sense. So if they openly allow gays in the military will they be allowed to "mix in" or will they have their own dedicated group? Will we put gay man into the womens platoon and gay women into the mens? And either way doesn't it fly in the face of the purpose for separating the groups to begin with? If they pass this why not just dissolve the different groups and just make it all co-ed?

I guess my point is that there is more to this than the military just being a bunch of conservative rednecks - despite what the idiot congressman from California might want people to believe.
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Old 02-04-10, 12:32 PM
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Re: Repeal 'don't ask, don't tell'?

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
I wasn't saying I didn't think there were any, or that I needed proof.
Oh, I realize that, but responding to your post was a convenient way to link to that story.
Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post
The chairman is like Gates - he works for the president.

What do you expect him (them) to do?
Who would have to come out in favor of it for you to think the top brass is behind it?
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Old 02-04-10, 12:33 PM
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Re: Repeal 'don't ask, don't tell'?

Originally Posted by General Zod View Post
As far as I know nobody has fought that decision since it does seem to make sense.
Does it make sense to discharge thousands of highly qualified Arabic-language interpreters because of a dumbass policy?
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Old 02-04-10, 12:35 PM
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Re: Repeal 'don't ask, don't tell'?

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
Does it make sense to discharge thousands of highly qualified Arabic-language interpreters because of a dumbass policy?


Yeah - it's really the same.

Is that the best you can come up with?
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Old 02-04-10, 01:03 PM
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Re: Repeal 'don't ask, don't tell'?

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
Does it make sense to discharge thousands of highly qualified Arabic-language interpreters because of a dumbass policy?
Wow, they did not have a dumbass policy when I was in. There were tons of them and they were mostly officers.
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Old 02-04-10, 01:06 PM
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Re: Repeal 'don't ask, don't tell'?

I like the idea of getting rid of don't ask/tell, but I do like the thought of all the harassment suits coming from both sides.
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Old 02-04-10, 01:28 PM
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Re: Repeal 'don't ask, don't tell'?

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
Does it make sense to discharge thousands of highly qualified Arabic-language interpreters because of a dumbass policy?
Does it makes sense to lose thousands of good soldiers and officers because we wanted to have women in the military?

Does it make sense that in some surveys 90% of US military women report sexual harassment and a full third report rape and abuse?

You start asking 'does it make sense' and you can pretty much go anywhere you want with it.

As far as Zod's point about segregation, a big part of ending 'don't ask don't tell' is full integration. There will not be separate showers, or quarters, or training or the like.
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