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Ten Commandments Back on Courthouse Walls in Grayson County

Old 01-19-10, 07:50 PM
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Ten Commandments Back on Courthouse Walls in Grayson County

http://www.wbko.com/news/headlines/81999242.html

The Ten Commandments are back up inside the Grayson County Courthouse.

The move comes less than a week after an appellate court ruling allowed the document to be displayed.

In 2001, a lawsuit forced Grayson County to remove the Ten Commandments from its courthouse walls.

In 2008, a federal judge again barred the display saying its intent was religious.

But on Thursday, federal appeals judges struck down that injunction making for an emotional scene inside the courthouse on Monday.


It was a crowd of hundreds inside the Grayson County Courthouse Monday afternoon all singing in celebration.

After an eight-year legal battle, the Ten Commandments were put back onto courthouse walls.

"This is a county of people who believe in God," said Bonnie Phillips, a Grayson County resident who attended the ceremony.

For Phillips, being part of the celebration meant witnessing a piece of history.

"I want my children, my grandchildren and other children to be able to walk through this courthouse that is an historical building and see other historical documents," she said.

"From a child, I have been taught that America and God went together," said Chessie Shartzer, a long-time resident and pastor in Grayson County.

Shartzer says he and local officials have fought tirelessly to put the commandments back up.

He says today, God and America stand side by side.

"He didn't come back to Grayson County, he's always been here."

Grayson County Judge-Executive Gary Logsdon says rumors have circulated that taxpayers would end up fronting the bill for the lawsuits run through the court system.

He assures that a "pro-bono" filed with the suit keeps the county from paying anything.
Interesting. I didn't see anyting on the details of the ruling.
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Old 01-19-10, 07:52 PM
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Re: Ten Commandments Back on Courthouse Walls in Grayson County

There must not be much to do in Grayson County for Bonnie Phillips.
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Old 01-19-10, 07:56 PM
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Re: Ten Commandments Back on Courthouse Walls in Grayson County

Here's another story with a little more information:

LOUISVILLE, Ky. (AP) - A Kentucky county can restore a display
that included the Ten Commandments along with other historical
documents after a split federal appeals court ruled Thursday that
there's no evidence the county intended to mount a religious
display on public grounds.

The 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, by a 2-1 vote, vacated an
injunction barring Grayson County from using the commandments as
part of a "Foundations of American Law and Government" display
that included the full text of the Mayflower Compact, the full
Declaration of Independence and other historical documents with an
explanation of their significance.

U.S. District Judge Joseph McKinley barred the display in 2008,
saying its primary intent was religious. Two citizens and the
American Civil Liberties Union sued over the display.

Appellate Judge David W. McKeague wrote that minutes of the
Grayson County Fiscal Court show county officials were interested
mainly in having the historical display at the courthouse.
"While there is no doubt that the Fiscal Court members could
have been more explicit about their educational goals, we
nonetheless find that, taken as a whole, the Foundations Display
endorses an educational message rather than a religious one,"
McKeague wrote in an opinion joined by U.S. District Judge Karl
Forester of Lexington, who heard the case after being designated by
the appeals court to assist in the case.

Appellate Judge Karen Nelson Moore dissented, saying the minutes
of various Fiscal Court meetings make the intent of the display
clear. Moore noted that county officials didn't discuss the
historical significance of the commandments or other documents in
the display until after being sued.

"The County's asserted purpose here - that the Display was
posted for educational or historical reasons - is a sham and should
be rejected," Moore wrote. "The predominant purpose at the time
the Fiscal Court voted to approve the Display was a religious
one."

ACLU attorney Bill Sharp said he's considering several legal
options, including asking for a rehearing before the full appeals
court or having the U.S. Supreme Court look at the case.
"We're certainly disappointed in the decision," Sharp said.
"We're weighing those options and looking at the substantive and
procedural aspects of the decision."

Mat Staver, an attorney for the Orlando, Fla.-based Liberty
Counsel, which defended the display, said the Ten Commandments
belong in the display and should be allowed in the courthouse.
"The Ten Commandments are part of the fabric of our country and
helped shape the law," Staver said. "It defies common sense to
remove a recognized symbol of law from a court of law."

The case was filed in 2001, but put on hold while other legal
disputes involving public displays of the Ten Commandments were
heard in court.

The U.S. Supreme Court in 2005 ruled that displays inside the
McCreary and Pulaski county courthouses were unconstitutional while
the U.S. 6th District Court of Appeals said a Mercer County
Courthouse display that incorporated other historical documents was
constitutional.

Since then, Ten Commandments displays and monuments in Alabama,
Georgia, Indiana, Maryland, Nebraska, Ohio, Tennessee and West
Virginia have been challenged and taken down.

Another case involving the Ten Commandments, out of a dispute in
McCreary County, was argued before the appeals court in October. No
decision had been rendered in that case as of Thursday.
http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/81522677.html
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Old 01-19-10, 08:03 PM
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Re: Ten Commandments Back on Courthouse Walls in Grayson County

Thanks.
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Old 01-19-10, 08:17 PM
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Re: Ten Commandments Back on Courthouse Walls in Grayson County

I have to laugh at the extremes on both sides... but I certainly am annoyed with these constant challenges. As if crosses at memorials and decorative carvings which have been there for decades suddenly represents a huge threat. Than again, I live in a state where Holiday trees in the airport aren't allowed...
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Old 01-19-10, 08:55 PM
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Re: Ten Commandments Back on Courthouse Walls in Grayson County

I heard that a couple of the Commandments were still under review and may be amended before the court restores them to the decor?
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Old 01-19-10, 09:15 PM
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Re: Ten Commandments Back on Courthouse Walls in Grayson County

I see cases like this and it makes me wonder how much money was spent in the legal battle and if the Christians involved think their God would consider it a wise and just use of resources.
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Old 01-19-10, 09:33 PM
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Re: Ten Commandments Back on Courthouse Walls in Grayson County

Originally Posted by maxfisher View Post
I see cases like this and it makes me wonder how much money was spent in the legal battle and if the Christians involved think their God would consider it a wise and just use of resources.
So the ACLU is the one who sues to take them down and its the Christians who are the bad guys?
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Old 01-19-10, 09:38 PM
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Re: Ten Commandments Back on Courthouse Walls in Grayson County

Originally Posted by BKenn01 View Post
So the ACLU is the one who sues to take them down and its the Christians who are the bad guys?
We're not allowed to defend ourselves.... we should just hang our heads and go silently into the lion pit as well.
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Old 01-19-10, 10:35 PM
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Re: Ten Commandments Back on Courthouse Walls in Grayson County

Originally Posted by Artman View Post
We're not allowed to defend ourselves.... we should just hang our heads and go silently into the lion pit as well.
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Old 01-19-10, 11:44 PM
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Re: Ten Commandments Back on Courthouse Walls in Grayson County

Originally Posted by BKenn01 View Post
So the ACLU is the one who sues to take them down and its the Christians who are the bad guys?
I didn't say anything about these people being bad guys. I just find it to be incredibly hypocritical or ignorant of them to spend ludicrous amounts of money on this issue. First off, I think it's pretty close to idolatry as defined by the Bible. Second of all, if Christ as presented in the Bible had followers with a bunch of extra cash to throw around, I think he'd tell them to use it on things like feeding and clothing the needy, not getting the gov't to put up a chunk of stone acknowledging his teachings.

Originally Posted by Artman View Post
We're not allowed to defend ourselves.... we should just hang our heads and go silently into the lion pit as well.
Shooting for melodramatic martyrdom, are we? Out of curiosity, can you point to where in the Bible Christ tells his followers to defend themselves from the government? Or to do anything to impact the government at all, besides paying taxes?
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Old 01-19-10, 11:47 PM
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Re: Ten Commandments Back on Courthouse Walls in Grayson County

Cool topic. Thanks for the thread
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Old 01-20-10, 12:18 AM
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Re: Ten Commandments Back on Courthouse Walls in Grayson County

Originally Posted by Artman View Post
Than again, I live in a state where Holiday trees in the airport aren't allowed...
Good! We don't need "holiday trees" in the airport.

Instead of spending money on tinsel and ornaments, and having employees waste time and effort tending to the decorations, more attention should be paid to checking people's crotches for explosives.
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Old 01-20-10, 12:27 AM
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Re: Ten Commandments Back on Courthouse Walls in Grayson County

Originally Posted by maxfisher View Post
Shooting for melodramatic martyrdom, are we?
No, it was just a bit of sarcasm....perhaps I should've added a smiley.
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Old 01-20-10, 01:12 AM
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Re: Ten Commandments Back on Courthouse Walls in Grayson County

Originally Posted by Count Dooku View Post
Instead of spending money on tinsel and ornaments, and having employees waste time and effort tending to the decorations
Anti-stimulus? Check.

Anti-jobs? Check.
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Old 01-20-10, 02:25 AM
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Re: Ten Commandments Back on Courthouse Walls in Grayson County

Originally Posted by Count Dooku View Post
more attention should be paid to checking people's crotches for explosives.
Jobs? Check.

Stimulus? Check, if they do the crotch inspections thoroughly.
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Old 01-20-10, 05:58 AM
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Re: Ten Commandments Back on Courthouse Walls in Grayson County

I could give a fuck. As an atheist this is such a non-issue to me. That it gets people's panties in a bunch is a constant source of wonder and pity.
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