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Michigan Passes Smoking Ban (Finally)

Old 12-10-09, 06:30 PM
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Michigan Passes Smoking Ban (Finally)

After YEARS of wrangling, it finally passes. It does contain an exception for the gaming floor of casinos and a few other things, but it bans smoking in bars, restaurants, and most places where it wasn't already banned. Woot!

(Note: Per 6 PM TV news, the governor has already signed, so article is slightly out of date. We're #38. Not good, but better than #50.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/21889354/detail.html
MI House, Senate Pass Smoking Ban
Bill Sent To Granholm's Desk For Signing

POSTED: Monday, December 7, 2009
UPDATED: 3:49 pm EST December 10, 2009

LANSING, Mich. -- The Michigan Senate and House have passed a smoking ban Thursday, with exceptions for three Detroit casinos that have to compete with tribal casinos not affected by the ban.

The bill will now be sent to Gov. Jennifer Granholm's desk, which she has already said she plans on signing.

The Democrat-led House passed the ban by a 75-30 vote Thursday. It mirrors a version passed by the Republican-led Senate earlier in the day. Thursday's Senate vote was 24-13; one senator was absent.

The ban would take effect in May 2010. It applies to all bars, restaurants and workplaces except for the Detroit casinos, cigar bars, tobacco specialty stores, home offices and motor vehicles.

Lawmakers had squabbled for years over what should be included in the ban.

With Granholm's signature, Michigan would become the 38th state to limit smoking in public places such as government buildings and bars and restaurants
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Old 12-10-09, 06:41 PM
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Re: Michigan Passes Smoking Ban (Finally)

glad to hear it.
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Old 12-10-09, 06:46 PM
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Re: Michigan Passes Smoking Ban (Finally)

It's always nice when the government tells private business owners how to run their business.
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Old 12-10-09, 06:48 PM
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Re: Michigan Passes Smoking Ban (Finally)

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Old 12-10-09, 06:49 PM
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Re: Michigan Passes Smoking Ban (Finally)

I'm waiting for the first state to have the balls to ban smoking altogether.
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Old 12-10-09, 07:04 PM
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Re: Michigan Passes Smoking Ban (Finally)

Originally Posted by crazyronin View Post
It's always nice when the government tells private business owners how to run their business.
Actually, they had told nearly all other businesses years ago, but bars and restaurants had a special exception to kill their workers with SHS. Now only casinos do (and only on the gambling floor, their bars and restaurants have the same ban).

They also have to pay taxes, not pump heavy metals into the atmosphere, water, or their workers, etc. Bars and restaurants have to handle food properly, eliminate rat and insect problems, pass inspections, etc. They get told quite a bit about how to run their business. This is just one more.
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Old 12-10-09, 07:07 PM
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Re: Michigan Passes Smoking Ban (Finally)

Oh, well that's OK then. What's one more thing.
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Old 12-10-09, 07:53 PM
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Re: Michigan Passes Smoking Ban (Finally)

Originally Posted by OldDude View Post
They get told quite a bit about how to run their business. This is just one more.
Yea?
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Old 12-10-09, 07:57 PM
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Re: Michigan Passes Smoking Ban (Finally)

Originally Posted by dan30oly View Post
I'm waiting for the first state to have the balls to ban smoking altogether.
Oh totally.

I remember the head of the DEA saying he figured he would be able to jail people for tobacco with 10-15 years. This was around 5-6 years ago.

We need to put more people in jail for not committing a crime, that's what we need.

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Old 12-10-09, 09:30 PM
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Re: Michigan Passes Smoking Ban (Finally)

Originally Posted by OldDude View Post
Actually, they had told nearly all other businesses years ago, but bars and restaurants had a special exception to kill their workers with SHS. Now only casinos do (and only on the gambling floor, their bars and restaurants have the same ban).

They also have to pay taxes, not pump heavy metals into the atmosphere, water, or their workers, etc. Bars and restaurants have to handle food properly, eliminate rat and insect problems, pass inspections, etc. They get told quite a bit about how to run their business. This is just one more.
Damn shame that those bars and restaurants were allowed to force those people at gunpoint to work there.

Evaluate: Obesity is a major problem which kills thousands and thousands of Americans every year. Therefore, no restaurant should be able to serve food over x number of calories in a serving. Allowable? If not, given the precedent you're willing to accept, why not?
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Old 12-10-09, 09:35 PM
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Re: Michigan Passes Smoking Ban (Finally)

I always find the analogy between cigarettes and bad food to be specious.

If you can give me an example of second-hand trans fats, I'd be more than happy to agree with you.
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Old 12-10-09, 09:41 PM
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Re: Michigan Passes Smoking Ban (Finally)

A few weeks ago at Red Lobster there were two people smoking right next to our table, it took two showers to get that horrid smell out of my hair and I couldn't finish eating. This is a great, great step!
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Old 12-10-09, 09:58 PM
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Re: Michigan Passes Smoking Ban (Finally)

Originally Posted by John Slider View Post
A few weeks ago at Red Lobster there were two people smoking right next to our table, it took two showers to get that horrid smell out of my hair and I couldn't finish eating.
Is your post decrying cigarettes or bad food? Please clarify.
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Old 12-10-09, 10:07 PM
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Re: Michigan Passes Smoking Ban (Finally)

Originally Posted by wildcatlh View Post
Damn shame that those bars and restaurants were allowed to force those people at gunpoint to work there.
Yeah, I don't think this argument is going to be that effective in this economy, with millions out of work and millions more taking what they can get. Where someone ends up working is not at all akin to walking into Baskin Robbins and picking one of the 31 flavors, even in the best of economic circumstances.

You could also extend the argument to lots of other things currently prohibited by OSHA or state workplace regulations. I think the risks of SHS have been wildly overstated at times, but spending several hours a day, 5 days a week in a smoky room is simply going to have a detrimental health effect. To call it self-inflicted when it is a work environment just because employees choose where they work (to an extent) isn't really being fair. Our governments have a long history of regulating work environments, especially for worker safety.
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Old 12-10-09, 10:18 PM
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Re: Michigan Passes Smoking Ban (Finally)

Originally Posted by wildcatlh View Post
Evaluate: Obesity is a major problem which kills thousands and thousands of Americans every year. Therefore, no restaurant should be able to serve food over x number of calories in a serving. Allowable? If not, given the precedent you're willing to accept, why not?
Don't worry. They're working on banning that stuff too.
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Old 12-10-09, 10:36 PM
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Re: Michigan Passes Smoking Ban (Finally)

Good for Michigan.

Florida FINALLY increased their cig tax from $.34 to $1.34.
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Old 12-10-09, 11:57 PM
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Re: Michigan Passes Smoking Ban (Finally)

I smoke cigars. I've been discriminated against for years in bars and restaurants. Good to see these cigarette guys getting theirs.

(Facetious, of course. Another thing the government should have no hand in. Second-hand smoke? DON'T FUCKING EAT AT THAT RESTAURANT/BAR. Or, stop believing that your lungs are pussies. Two very simple choices.)
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Old 12-11-09, 12:26 AM
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Re: Michigan Passes Smoking Ban (Finally)

Originally Posted by John Slider View Post
A few weeks ago at Red Lobster there were two people smoking right next to our table, it took two showers to get that horrid smell out of my hair and I couldn't finish eating. This is a great, great step!
I wouldn't eat in a restaurant that allowed smoking, personally.

My state was one of the first with a total ban, and I do enjoy it, but that doesn't mean I agree with it. A hooka bar had to shut down. A bar where you go to smoke was no longer allowed to have smoking. That's stupid.
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Old 12-11-09, 06:07 AM
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Re: Michigan Passes Smoking Ban (Finally)

I wonder how the laws work. In my state we have a no smoking ban on restaurants and bars but we have some hookah bars in the cities around me.
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Old 12-11-09, 06:25 AM
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Re: Michigan Passes Smoking Ban (Finally)

Originally Posted by wildcatlh View Post
Evaluate: Obesity is a major problem which kills thousands and thousands of Americans every year. Therefore, no restaurant should be able to serve food over x number of calories in a serving. Allowable? If not, given the precedent you're willing to accept, why not?
Mostly, because second-hand transfat isn't much of a problem.

Whether or not you accept all the data on second hand smoke, it is the basis for smoking bans. If first-hand smoke isn't good for you (and that data seems undeniable) then SHS can't be good for you either. We are only arguing about [U]how[U] bad.

Even alcohol is only a risk to others if you drink and drive, and we forbid that. Smoking is a risk to others every time you light up.

As even kids watching Sesame Street know, "One of these things is NOT like the others."
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Old 12-11-09, 06:31 AM
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Re: Michigan Passes Smoking Ban (Finally)

Originally Posted by wildcatlh View Post
Damn shame that those bars and restaurants were allowed to force those people at gunpoint to work there.
True, I have no idea why OSHA regulates carcinogens and pollutants in industrial workplaces. And why can't automakers emit as many toxins as they want. Why should government protect ANY workplace, or the environment at large?

Given that we had laws about smoking in MOST public places, with an exception for bars and restaurants, I would ask you to clarify why servers should be unprotected from smoke when nearly every other worker has been for years. The disparity is a giant "we don't give a shit about you" message.
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Old 12-11-09, 08:43 AM
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Re: Michigan Passes Smoking Ban (Finally)

Property rights loses again.
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Old 12-11-09, 08:48 AM
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Re: Michigan Passes Smoking Ban (Finally)

It's only page 1 of a smoking thread, and Old Dude has already resorted to playing the lame "will somebody think of the poor bar workers" and "why won't OSHA come to the rescue" cards, so yes, it is time to break out:

Originally posted by Red Dog
I don't know why I get involved in these threads anymore. They always go the same way.

1. Smoking is bad and smokers are selfish for blowing their smoke around. Gov't should stop it.
2. Someone responds saying they disagree with the ban.
3. Supporters of the ban say it is the smokers complaining - a smoker vs non-smoker issue.
4. Opponents of the ban say it is not a smoker vs non-smoker but a private property owner vs government issue.
5. There are arguments made about the harm of 2nd hand smoke and how it is comparable to any other form of pollution.
5. Proponents then ask then whether opponents think a private property owner should be able to do whatver they want on their property.
6. Opponents say anything that does not interfere with the rights of others (and clean air is not a right).
7. Then the employee argument is brought out.
8. Opponents respond that employee has the choice whether to work there or not.
9. Then you get into employee safety and OSHA.
10. Movielib, Duran or I call for the elimination of OSHA.
11. People then ask who will monitor the safety of businesses.
12. Movielib, Duran or I say private companies will be hired (for insurance purposes) to inspect businesses for safety complience.
13. Someone says how can we trust a 3rd party.
14. We say we trust a 3rd party more than we trust some government official.
15. People then call libertarians anarchists.
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Old 12-11-09, 08:53 AM
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Re: Michigan Passes Smoking Ban (Finally)

Originally Posted by OldDude View Post
Whether or not you accept all the data on second hand smoke, it is the basis for smoking bans.
Not really - the basis is because many people are annoyed by smoke and don't want to be around it even when visiting someone else's property.

And your alcohol analogy is terrible. Drinking and driving is dangerous (and proven so I might add unlike SHS) so we ban drinking and driving, but we don't ban alcohol.

Last edited by Red Dog; 12-11-09 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 12-11-09, 09:05 AM
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Re: Michigan Passes Smoking Ban (Finally)

I would have to think that there are many jobs in the US that require workers to come into contact with very mildly toxic fumes, and I don't believe those industries are all outlawed. If the goal of this type of legislation was truly to protect workers from the dangers of secondhand smoke, I would think they could come up with more specific regulations (like the above-mentioned industries do), where you would run regular air quality tests, limit the time a worker can be in the environment, provide breathing masks/oxygen stations for the workers, etc. But I believe the goal of this type of legislation is nanny-state control of the unwashed masses by the enlightened elites, and that's why those things aren't even considered.
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