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Hate Crime Legislation

Old 12-08-09, 09:25 AM
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Hate Crime Legislation

This piece perfectly sums up my views on hate crime legislation. The salient point, IMO, is that hate crime legislation is NOT going to be applied fairly across the whole spectrum of the population regardless of race, ethnicity, class, etc----nor was it ever intended to be.

Hate crime laws attempt to criminalize thoughts

By: Gregory Kane
Examiner Staff Writer

December 7, 2009 This story comes to us from Broward County, Fla. Teah Wimberly, 16, is charged with murdering Amanda Coll, a friend and classmate at Dillard High School in Fort Lauderdale. Both girls were 15 at the time of the shooting.

According to police, Ms. Wimberly wanted more than just a friendship with Collette, whom she'd known since childhood. Wimberly wanted a lesbian relationship with Collette, who rebuffed the idea, news reports indicate. On Nov. 12 of last year, police say, Wimberly took a .22-caliber handgun to school and fatally shot Collette.

Wimberly's trial started last week and is expected to continue this week. This may be the first time you've read about the case, unlike when Matthew Shepard was murdered in Wyoming or when James Byrd was dragged to death in Jasper, Texas.

My guess is you know plenty about those latter two incidents. Shepard was gay; two men beat him to death because he was gay. Byrd was a black man whom three white supremacists chained to a truck, dragged through the streets of Jasper and beheaded.

Both grisly crimes, to be sure. And when President Obama signed a new federal "hate crimes" law recently, it was called the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act.

That's a misnomer, because the law prevents nothing of the sort. And it creates classes of victims and perpetrators, as if some victims of violent crime are better than others, or the perpetrators of the same are worse.

And therein lies the answer about why Wimberly wasn't charged with a hate crime. She's the wrong sexual orientation: lesbian. Had she been a heterosexual teen who shot a lesbian, you'd have been able to repeat the details of this story verbatim, because that's how many times you'd have heard it.

Wimberly is also the wrong race: She's black, or, as the current PC term goes, African American. Her victim, Colette, was also a "person of color," to use yet another annoying PC term.


I'll repeat what I've said about "hate crimes" laws for some time: They should be more correctly called "bust whitey's hump" laws. These laws target whites who commit crimes against "people of color." You'll rarely see them used against "people of color" who commit crimes against whites. And it's even rarer to see them used against "people of color" who commit crimes against other "people of color."

Ever heard of Cheryl Greene? She was a black girl killed by members of a Mexican-American gang in Los Angeles. There have been some very nasty brown-on-black crimes committed in Los Angeles recently, but like the Amanda Collette murder, most media outlets give them little to no coverage.

The victims are the right color, but, dang it, the perps just aren't. Nothing makes for the perfect hate crime like a white perp and a victim who's a "person of color."

Or, if you're like the Obamas of the world, a victim who's gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender or transsexual. The purpose of the Shepard-Byrd Act was to add them to the list of approved "hate crimes" victims. At least that's what the law's supporters would try to con us into believing.

The truth is this: Supporters of "hate crimes" laws don't want to criminalize the conduct of those who commit crimes based on race, religion, ethnicity or sexual orientation. Wyoming and Texas both had murder statutes on the books that allowed the killers of Shepard and Byrd to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. It's not like the murderers escaped punishment.

No, supporters of "hate crimes" laws want to criminalize certain thoughts and ideas. That makes them far more dangerous than those who commit nonviolent "hate crimes."

The yokels who'd burn a cross on a lawn, paint a swastika on a synagogue or yell the dreaded "F" bomb at a gay couple are, at worst, insufferable bigots. At best they're simply royal pains in our collective neck.

But those who want to criminalize thoughts and ideas will soon lead us down the path to totalitarianism. Given my druthers, I'd gladly suffer the annoyance of the silly, nonviolent acts of a few idiotic bigots than trust an advocate of "hate crimes" laws to govern this nation.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/op...-78643762.html


Examiner Columnist Gregory Kane is a Pulitzer-nominated news and opinion journalist who has covered people and politics from Baltimore to the Sudan
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Old 12-08-09, 10:58 AM
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Re: Hate Crime Legislation

I'm not sure I would call people who'd burn a cross on a lawn "at worst, insufferable bigots." Other than that, his points are well taken.
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Old 12-08-09, 11:12 AM
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Re: Hate Crime Legislation

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
This piece perfectly sums up my views on hate crime legislation.
Your views on hate crime legislation are incoherent grasping at straws?
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Old 12-08-09, 11:54 AM
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Re: Hate Crime Legislation

Originally Posted by dork View Post
Your views on hate crime legislation are incoherent grasping at straws?
How so? What is incoherent?
What parts do you find to lack clarity or be unintelligible to you?

"Hate crime laws" have always been liberal feel good bull shit to make some half assed attempt at placing more value on some lives over others.
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Old 12-08-09, 11:58 AM
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Re: Hate Crime Legislation

Those god-damned liberals. If I saw one right now, I know what I'd do...
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Old 12-08-09, 12:13 PM
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Re: Hate Crime Legislation

Hate crime legislation is feel good legislation - like gun control.
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Old 12-08-09, 12:16 PM
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Re: Hate Crime Legislation

Originally Posted by dork View Post
Your views on hate crime legislation are incoherent grasping at straws?
Ahh yes, the ol' "I hate your opinion, and I don't care to debate it, so I'm going to pretend it's beneath me without disputing any specific point or engaging in any debate." Never seen that before on this forum.
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Old 12-08-09, 01:05 PM
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Re: Hate Crime Legislation

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
Ahh yes, the ol' "I hate your opinion, and I don't care to debate it, so I'm going to pretend it's beneath me without disputing any specific point or engaging in any debate." Never seen that before on this forum.
I prefer, "If you found that piece persuasive then any attempt at rebuttal I can come up with is doomed to failure, as I cannot even hope to match the level of casuistry contained therein."

According to the facts as presented by Kane, a girl shot another girl because the latter rejected her advances. Men do this to women all the time and are not charged with hate crimes. But they are charged with hate crimes when they shoot up women's centers. Do you understand the fucking distinction? Because Kane doesn't appear to.

In closing, I'm sorry to have been so dismissive and will try my best in the future to match the usual high standards of sophisticated debate that this subject inevitably generates, as typified by, "Oh noes, a black guy crashed his car into a white guy! If the races were reversed, he'd be accused of a hate crime!!!!!!! High five!"
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Old 12-08-09, 01:12 PM
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Re: Hate Crime Legislation

Originally Posted by dork View Post
In closing, I'm sorry to have been so dismissive and will try my best in the future to match the usual high standards of sophisticated debate that this subject inevitably generates, as typified by, "Oh noes, a black guy crashed his car into a white guy! If the races were reversed, he'd be accused of a hate crime!!!!!!! High five!"
Don't forget "Where's Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton?"
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Old 12-08-09, 01:15 PM
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Re: Hate Crime Legislation

Originally Posted by dork View Post

According to the facts as presented by Kane, a girl shot another girl because the latter rejected her advances. Men do this to women all the time and are not charged with hate crimes. But they are charged with hate crimes when they shoot up women's centers. Do you understand the fucking distinction? Because Kane doesn't appear to.
No, I sincerely don't understand at all why someone should be charged with a hate crime for shooting up a women's center. Please explain that to me. I can see them being charged with murder, but I don't understand the hate crime part. So by your logic, if a disgruntled female former employee of the women's center shoots the place up and kills just as many people, you feel she should be punished less severely than a man who killed the women out of "hate" ?
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Old 12-08-09, 01:29 PM
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Re: Hate Crime Legislation

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
No, I sincerely don't understand at all why someone should be charged with a hate crime for shooting up a women's center. Please explain that to me. I can see them being charged with murder, but I don't understand the hate crime part. So by your logic, if a disgruntled female former employee of the women's center shoots the place up and kills just as many people, you feel she should be punished less severely than a man who killed the women out of "hate" ?
Clearly you are just a misguided, unenlightened, misogynistic racist!
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Old 12-08-09, 01:38 PM
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Re: Hate Crime Legislation

Originally Posted by Nugent View Post
Clearly you are just a misguided, unenlightened, misogynistic racist!
Actually, I prefer "intolerant, mean-spirited, xenophobic, far-right extremist."
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Old 12-08-09, 01:50 PM
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Re: Hate Crime Legislation

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
Don't forget "Where's Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton?"
Out pimping hos and shaking down corporations, I'd guess.
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Old 12-08-09, 01:51 PM
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Re: Hate Crime Legislation

Originally Posted by dork View Post
In closing, I'm sorry to have been so dismissive and will try my best in the future to match the usual high standards of sophisticated debate that this subject inevitably generates, as typified by, "Oh noes, a black guy crashed his car into a white guy! If the races were reversed, he'd be accused of a hate crime!!!!!!! High five!"
What an outlandish prediction!

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
No, I sincerely don't understand at all why someone should be charged with a hate crime for shooting up a women's center. Please explain that to me. I can see them being charged with murder, but I don't understand the hate crime part. So by your logic, if a disgruntled female former employee of the women's center shoots the place up and kills just as many people, you feel she should be punished less severely than a man who killed the women out of "hate" ?
Originally Posted by Nugent View Post
Clearly you are just a misguided, unenlightened, misogynistic racist!
Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
Actually, I prefer "intolerant, mean-spirited, xenophobic, far-right extremist."
Outlandish!
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Old 12-08-09, 02:01 PM
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Re: Hate Crime Legislation

Are the hate crime proscecutions about even in terms of which race gets prosecuted more, or does it show that one race hates more?
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Old 12-08-09, 02:08 PM
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Re: Hate Crime Legislation

Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post
Hate crime legislation is feel good legislation - like gun control.
Or capital punishment, mandatory minimums, etc.
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Old 12-08-09, 02:16 PM
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Re: Hate Crime Legislation

Double posts are feel good, too.
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Old 12-08-09, 02:20 PM
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Re: Hate Crime Legislation

Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post
Hate crime legislation is feel good legislation - like gun control.

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
Or capital punishment, mandatory minimums, etc.
I know it sure made me feel good that this guy will not be paroled to kill again or that the taxpayers of Ohio will have to feed this festering turd in the future.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091208/...ohio_execution

Code:
Ohio executes inmate with 1-drug lethal injection

Last edited by Nugent; 12-08-09 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 12-08-09, 02:23 PM
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Re: Hate Crime Legislation

Well - here we go on another debate about capital punishment.
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Old 12-08-09, 03:16 PM
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Re: Hate Crime Legislation

Were the people who murdered Christopher Newsom and Channon Christian charged with a hate crime?
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Old 12-08-09, 03:35 PM
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Re: Hate Crime Legislation

Regardless of whether you are for or against hate crime laws, that article is bloody stupid and isn't even worth commenting on. If you expect intelligent discussion about hate crime legislation, don't use an asinine example as grounds for said discussion.
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Old 12-08-09, 03:54 PM
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Re: Hate Crime Legislation

Originally Posted by eXcentris View Post
Regardless of whether you are for or against hate crime laws, that article is bloody stupid and isn't even worth commenting on. If you expect intelligent discussion about hate crime legislation, don't use an asinine example as grounds for said discussion.

See post #7. If you honestly believe that a thread isn't worth commenting on, then you have the option of not commenting instead of threadcrapping.
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Old 12-08-09, 04:05 PM
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Re: Hate Crime Legislation

Originally Posted by eXcentris View Post
Regardless of whether you are for or against hate crime laws, that article is bloody stupid and isn't even worth commenting on. If you expect intelligent discussion about hate crime legislation, don't use an asinine example as grounds for said discussion.
You did just comment on it.

It's no less "asninine" than the entire concept of hate crime laws.
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Old 12-08-09, 04:08 PM
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Re: Hate Crime Legislation

Originally Posted by Nugent View Post
It's no less "asninine" than the entire concept of hate crime laws.
No, the article was even more asinine than hate crime laws.
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Old 12-08-09, 04:31 PM
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Re: Hate Crime Legislation

Why? Granted I thought the language/hyperbole was a bit over the top, but IMHO it makes a valid point about how HCL is being applied. Then again I'm no fan of HCL and think it is;

- nonsensical because the vast majority of crime involves hate of some form or another

- seems to be an attempt to create thoughtcrime and all the implications thereof

- it will never be applied evenly/"fairly" (which is the point the article was trying to get to)

- as others have pointed out it's "feel good" legislation

Which all means it's some nebulous standard which will apply to some situations but not others and will probably mostly be based more on political motivations than anything else.

Last edited by nemein; 12-08-09 at 04:34 PM.
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