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47% will pay no federal income tax

Old 10-04-09, 11:47 PM
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Re: 47% will pay no federal income tax

It wouldn't?

Everyone pays the same percentage of their income....that doesn't treat everybody equally?
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Old 10-05-09, 12:20 AM
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Re: 47% will pay no federal income tax

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
It wouldn't?

Everyone pays the same percentage of their income....that doesn't treat everybody equally?
Yeah, but it ignores the fact that some Americans, in the government's eyes, are more equal than others. Responsible folks need a Brown v. Board of their own.
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Old 10-05-09, 05:32 AM
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Re: 47% will pay no federal income tax

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
It wouldn't?

Everyone pays the same percentage of their income....that doesn't treat everybody equally?
It doesn't account for how people with higher incomes are better able to manage their tax liability.
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Old 10-05-09, 05:36 AM
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Re: 47% will pay no federal income tax

Oh, I could go on for pages about everything wrong with a flat tax... and it's not because it's not equitable, it's because it's impossible to implement. We would just end up with the same tax system we have now, with all the same potential problems.
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Old 10-05-09, 10:12 AM
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Re: 47% will pay no federal income tax

Originally Posted by pedagogue View Post
Why do we keep rewarding people to breed? A flat tax should be implemented. It simplifies the tax code, and everyone pays their fair share. Frankly, it is a HUGE net loss to have all of those people not pay taxes because many are usual social programs, but don't pay into them.
I personally don't have a huge problem w/ the child tax, but don't think it should be refundable. I also don't think we need any change as radical as the flat tax or national sales tax. We just need a much simpler tax code. I say limit it to 150 pages w/ 10 point font.
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Old 10-05-09, 10:25 AM
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Re: 47% will pay no federal income tax

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
It wouldn't?

Everyone pays the same percentage of their income....that doesn't treat everybody equally?
No it wouldn't, and I really don't understand why that concept isn't universally understood and accepted.
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Old 10-05-09, 10:57 AM
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Re: 47% will pay no federal income tax

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
And it would treat people the same. That's not American.
No, it wouldn't.
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Old 10-05-09, 11:36 AM
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Re: 47% will pay no federal income tax

Why wouldn't it?
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Old 10-05-09, 11:38 AM
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Re: 47% will pay no federal income tax

Think about it a little, and I'm reasonably certain you can see why it wouldn't.

We encourage thought on this forum.
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Old 10-05-09, 11:54 AM
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Re: 47% will pay no federal income tax

Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post
Think about it a little, and I'm reasonably certain you can see why it wouldn't.
I wouldn't mind hearing a couple reasons why some people think it wouldn't and then see if there is a way to work around those issues.
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Old 10-05-09, 12:07 PM
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Re: 47% will pay no federal income tax

Flat tax - takes away a major incentive for the middle-class buying a home.
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Old 10-05-09, 12:11 PM
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Re: 47% will pay no federal income tax

Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post
Flat tax - takes away a major incentive for the middle-class buying a home.
That's one point for a flat tax. And I say that as a home owner with a substantial mortgage interest deduction.

It would have to be phased in though.
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Old 10-05-09, 12:13 PM
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Re: 47% will pay no federal income tax

I actually do favor a form of the flat tax. I believe the top 1% should have a flat tax rate of 75%.
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Old 10-05-09, 12:31 PM
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Re: 47% will pay no federal income tax

Just take it all.
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Old 10-05-09, 12:51 PM
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Re: 47% will pay no federal income tax

We've had a 75% tax rate in the past.

The rich still managed to get richer, but I think that was the highest bracket ever. I think it was still in effect as late at the 60's.
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Old 10-05-09, 01:13 PM
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Re: 47% will pay no federal income tax

Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse View Post
We've had a 75% tax rate in the past.

The rich still managed to get richer, but I think that was the highest bracket ever. I think it was still in effect as late at the 60's.
The highest marginal tax rate we've ever had in the U.S. was 94%. The top marginal tax rate was 70% or higher from 1936 through 1980, which explains why the post-World War II period is remembered as a dark time in American history when the country stagnated, there was no innovation, and nobody got rich.
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Old 10-05-09, 01:16 PM
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Re: 47% will pay no federal income tax

Why risk money to innovate when the prize is having 70% of it taken away?
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Old 10-05-09, 01:23 PM
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Re: 47% will pay no federal income tax

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
Why risk money to innovate when the prize is having 70% of it taken away?
30% of an obscenely large sum of money is still a very large sum of money. But you'd probably get a more complete answer from all the people who risked money to innovate between 1936 and 1980.
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Old 10-05-09, 01:24 PM
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Re: 47% will pay no federal income tax

It just means they have to work harder to get rich. I think it provides motivation.
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Old 10-05-09, 01:44 PM
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Re: 47% will pay no federal income tax

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
The highest marginal tax rate we've ever had in the U.S. was 94%. The top marginal tax rate was 70% or higher from 1936 through 1980, which explains why the post-World War II period is remembered as a dark time in American history when the country stagnated, there was no innovation, and nobody got rich.
Funny, I think other people remember it (post WW2 up through the 70s) as the time when America went from an economy based on single-working-parent households to one based on dual-working-parent households. After WWII and for the next 30 years or so, progress and prices can be tied to the fact that there was an increase in the workforce and, as a result, in family incomes. Suddenly everybody could afford a house and a car, and then TV started and they all got those, along with all kinds of appliances designed to make life easier, etc., etc.. As the economy reached a new equilibrium over the next two generations of increased wages and increased consumption, and prices increased to accommodate the new supply of money (houses, college tuition, cars, etc.), we found ourselves in a prisoners' dilemma. It was no longer a choice for many to have single-working-parent households. And people in dual-working-parent-households could no longer get ahead--they could only keep up.

Comparing the tax structure of today to the one of that time, or using the one of that time as a predictive model for another would not yield accurate results, IMO.
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Old 10-05-09, 01:52 PM
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Re: 47% will pay no federal income tax

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
30% of an obscenely large sum of money is still a very large sum of money. But you'd probably get a more complete answer from all the people who risked money to innovate between 1936 and 1980.


I think you have a vastly different conception of what an obscenely large sum of money is than many, (most), people do.


And don't you think it is relevant to include in your posting of rates what the income level was with those rates? Like for example that from 49 to 64 the income level was over $400k, as opposed to only $300k in 2001?
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Old 10-05-09, 02:00 PM
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Re: 47% will pay no federal income tax

Originally Posted by Pharoh View Post


I think you have a vastly different conception of what an obscenely large sum of money is than many, (most), people do.


And don't you think it is relevant to include in your posting of rates what the income level was with those rates? Like for example that from 49 to 64 the income level was over $400k, as opposed to only $300k in 2001?
I didn't say anything about the income level at which people started paying the top marginal rate.

I support adding at least two or three additional tax brackets above the one we have now. I do favor a very high top marginal bracket, but I think it should be reserved for people making somewhere in the neighborhood of seven figures.
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Old 10-05-09, 02:36 PM
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Re: 47% will pay no federal income tax

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
I didn't say anything about the income level at which people started paying the top marginal rate.

I support adding at least two or three additional tax brackets above the one we have now. I do favor a very high top marginal bracket, but I think it should be reserved for people making somewhere in the neighborhood of seven figures.
I know you didn't; that was the point. You can't point out that the rate was often 90% without also indicating what the income level was, especially if you are discussing growth and its possibility.


As for your other suggestion, I still cant' fathom how it makes economic sense or is morally justified. (And remember, I am not in favour of a flat tax).
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Old 10-05-09, 02:39 PM
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Re: 47% will pay no federal income tax

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
The highest marginal tax rate we've ever had in the U.S. was 94%. The top marginal tax rate was 70% or higher from 1936 through 1980, which explains why the post-World War II period is remembered as a dark time in American history when the country stagnated, there was no innovation, and nobody got rich.


Nice.
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Old 10-05-09, 03:17 PM
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Re: 47% will pay no federal income tax

Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
With my help, she'll get it all back (minus my 15% fee for finding the loopholes and filing the forms).
Brother of the year.
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