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Obama supports extending Patriot Act provisions

Old 09-16-09, 12:34 AM
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Obama supports extending Patriot Act provisions

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090915/...us_patriot_act

Seems like yet another example of why this is Bush's third term.
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Old 09-16-09, 01:18 AM
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Re: Obama supports extending Patriot Act provisions

And suddenly, so do Democrats.
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Old 09-16-09, 01:29 AM
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Re: Obama supports extending Patriot Act provisions

Change™
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Old 09-16-09, 01:34 AM
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Re: Obama supports extending Patriot Act provisions

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Old 09-16-09, 09:04 AM
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Re: Obama supports extending Patriot Act provisions

Yeah but he's also open to improving the measures to allow more freedom, as long as it doesn't impede the effectiveness of the anti-freedom.
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Old 09-16-09, 09:46 AM
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Re: Obama supports extending Patriot Act provisions

I hope Clinton is just biding her time for a surprise challenge in the primaries. A sociopath in the White House would be better than a milquetoast.
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Old 09-16-09, 11:10 AM
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Re: Obama supports extending Patriot Act provisions



"You know, there might be a reason America hasn't been attacked for 8 years, I can't change this or we're fucked."
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Old 09-16-09, 11:32 AM
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Re: Obama supports extending Patriot Act provisions

I'd like to think this is because now that he's in the big chair, he's had a chance to review all those super top secret files about foiled terrorist attacks and realized that the PA was actually effective.
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Old 09-16-09, 11:51 AM
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Re: Obama supports extending Patriot Act provisions

Originally Posted by Cheato View Post
I'd like to think this is because now that he's in the big chair, he's had a chance to review all those super top secret files about foiled terrorist attacks and realized that the PA was actually effective.
I have little doubt that the Patriot Act is effective in its stated goals. I still think it is a steaming pile of crap.
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Old 09-16-09, 11:53 AM
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Re: Obama supports extending Patriot Act provisions

I'd just like a list of all the reasons why Bush was the "worst president ever" and eliminate all the things that Obama has continued or extended to see what's left on the list.
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Old 09-16-09, 12:07 PM
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Re: Obama supports extending Patriot Act provisions

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
I'd just like a list of all the reasons why Bush was the "worst president ever" and eliminate all the things that Obama has continued or extended to see what's left on the list.

Agreed. I had such high hopes for Obama, and this is just another example of his failure to effect any real change.
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Old 09-16-09, 01:55 PM
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Re: Obama supports extending Patriot Act provisions

Obama never invited a hurricane on New Orleans and Mississippi!
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Old 09-17-09, 10:48 AM
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Re: Obama supports extending Patriot Act provisions

Heckuva job, Bamy.
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Old 09-17-09, 10:53 AM
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Re: Obama supports extending Patriot Act provisions

Originally Posted by orangecrush View Post
I have little doubt that the Patriot Act is effective in its stated goals. I still think it is a steaming pile of crap.
I doubt it. I think it is a purely political move to give him political cover. If Obama maintains the status quo and we are attacked, he can then "prove" that it wasn't the Patriot Act that prevented attacks. That effectively neutralizes the Republicans/Conservatives who supported Bush's enacting of the Patriot Act.
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Old 09-17-09, 11:05 AM
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Re: Obama supports extending Patriot Act provisions

Originally Posted by sracer View Post
I doubt it. I think it is a purely political move to give him political cover. If Obama maintains the status quo and we are attacked, he can then "prove" that it wasn't the Patriot Act that prevented attacks. That effectively neutralizes the Republicans/Conservatives who supported Bush's enacting of the Patriot Act.
You could be right. But how could Obama sit there and say that it is effective enough to continue something he railed against for so long. The Patriot Act was exhibit #1 for why so many liberals hated Bush. If we are attacked with it still in force, he has some explaining to do as to why he didn't do anything to overturn something he blasted as very egregious AND turned out to be ineffective in its stated goal.
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Old 09-17-09, 11:11 AM
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Re: Obama supports extending Patriot Act provisions

Originally Posted by sracer View Post
I doubt it. I think it is a purely political move to give him political cover. If Obama maintains the status quo and we are attacked, he can then "prove" that it wasn't the Patriot Act that prevented attacks. That effectively neutralizes the Republicans/Conservatives who supported Bush's enacting of the Patriot Act.
Maybe if something happens in the first year of his tenure (and I certainly hope it doesn't) Obama could use this for cover. With every passing day though this excuse becomes less and less pertinent
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Old 09-17-09, 11:29 AM
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Re: Obama supports extending Patriot Act provisions

Originally Posted by orangecrush View Post
The Patriot Act was exhibit #1 for why so many liberals hated Bush.
I'd still like to see a complete list of all the reasons why people think GWB was the worst president ever and eliminate all the things that Obama has continued or renewed and see what's left on the list.


I just read the other day that Obama, without any request from the military, is authorizing 5000 new troops to Afghanistan and 1000 new troops to Iraq. I thought Bush was a war criminal and the war in Iraq is illegal and should go to the Hague for an international trial. Have I missed the announcement where Obama has set a timetable for leaving Iraq?

January 8, 2008 - Obama: No warrentless wiretaps if you elect me

April 9, 2009 - EFF Says Obama warrantless wiretaps are worse than Bush

Another criticism of Bush was that he was turning the USA into a theocracy. Obama has expanded bush's faith based initiative programs.


I'm not here to criticize Obama, I just want to know why Bush was vilified and Obama is not for the same policies. I realize that he can't completely change everything right away, but it's not like it's still his first 100 days. His term is almost 17% over already.
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Old 09-17-09, 11:39 AM
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Re: Obama supports extending Patriot Act provisions

"I just want to know why Bush <b>(R)</b> was vilified and Obama <b>(D)</b> is not for the same policies. "

I think the above answers your question The country at the moment is moving left of center.
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Old 09-17-09, 11:53 AM
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Re: Obama supports extending Patriot Act provisions

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
I'd still like to see a complete list of all the reasons why people think GWB was the worst president ever and eliminate all the things that Obama has continued or renewed and see what's left on the list.


I just read the other day that Obama, without any request from the military, is authorizing 5000 new troops to Afghanistan and 1000 new troops to Iraq. I thought Bush was a war criminal and the war in Iraq is illegal and should go to the Hague for an international trial. Have I missed the announcement where Obama has set a timetable for leaving Iraq?

January 8, 2008 - Obama: No warrentless wiretaps if you elect me

April 9, 2009 - EFF Says Obama warrantless wiretaps are worse than Bush

Another criticism of Bush was that he was turning the USA into a theocracy. Obama has expanded bush's faith based initiative programs.


I'm not here to criticize Obama, I just want to know why Bush was vilified and Obama is not for the same policies. I realize that he can't completely change everything right away, but it's not like it's still his first 100 days. His term is almost 17% over already.
You are smart enough that you know the answer. You just don't like the answer (neither do I). It is the thing I find most infuriating with some people. The attitude that expanded executive power is terrible when the other party is in office, but not so bad when my guy is in office drives me up the wall. It is the same as the crowd that is all too happy to take away liberties they particularly don't care about.

Last edited by orangecrush; 09-17-09 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 09-17-09, 11:59 AM
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Re: Obama supports extending Patriot Act provisions

Originally Posted by Cheato View Post
I'd like to think this is because now that he's in the big chair, he's had a chance to review all those super top secret files about foiled terrorist attacks and realized that the PA was actually effective.
I think so as well, which is why he should have shut his bitch mouth about it until he knew what was going on. But he decided to actually tell us he was going to change....and have a transparent government....and not have "illegal" wiretaps.....and keep unemployment under 8% if he got his $800 billion.

I don't mind the Patriot Act, personally, but this is shit. If I run for office on animal rights and then when I get into office and don't, people deserve to have a diminished opinion of me.
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Old 09-17-09, 12:48 PM
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Re: Obama supports extending Patriot Act provisions

If I run for office on animal rights
You'd never be elected... no one would buy it for a second
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Old 09-17-09, 01:03 PM
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Re: Obama supports extending Patriot Act provisions

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
I think so as well, which is why he should have shut his bitch mouth about it until he knew what was going on. But he decided to actually tell us he was going to change....and have a transparent government....and not have "illegal" wiretaps.....and keep unemployment under 8% if he got his $800 billion.

I don't mind the Patriot Act, personally, but this is shit. If I run for office on animal rights and then when I get into office and don't, people deserve to have a diminished opinion of me.
If we're going to have people shut their bitch mouths about things when they don't know what's going on, this forum will get less traffic than Book Talk.

Suffice it to say that two of the thre eprovisions President Obama has asked for renewal of -- roving wiretaps and lone wolf wiretaps (both via a court approved warrant) -- are completely non-controversial and always have been non-controversial. The third -- access to business records -- is more controversial, and I will wait to see what kinds of privacy safeguards Congress puts in place before I decide whether to oppose the President. I certainly have no objection to the general concept that under certain circumstances, with certain protections, law enforcement may need to access business records. The existing Patriot Act did not have sufficient limitations and protections as far as I was concerned; if the new version does, then I'm not going to oppose it simply because it has some similarities to a law I did oppose. So I will back Senators Durbin and Feingold, who have said they intend to tighten the checks on this aspect of the act, and will wait and see what form the renewal takes before I decide if I oppose it.

But in general, I have not been shy about saying that I think President Obama is too closely following President Bush's policies on national security.
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Old 09-17-09, 01:08 PM
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Re: Obama supports extending Patriot Act provisions

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
If we're going to have people shut their bitch mouths about things when they don't know what's going on, this forum will get less traffic than Book Talk.
You'd have a fantastic point if this forum were a primary. I expect more of the President of the United States than your average DVD Talk participant.

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
But in general, I have not been shy about saying that I think President Obama is too closely following President Bush's policies on national security.
Because you think they are bad policies, or simply because they are Bush policies?

Last edited by Th0r S1mpson; 09-17-09 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 09-17-09, 01:09 PM
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Re: Obama supports extending Patriot Act provisions

The Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. and Sgt. James Crowley incident proved that Obama has no problem opening his bitch mouth when he doesn't know what's going on, so it isn't really a surprise.

Sometimes it just makes one feel better to tell the president to shut his bitch mouth.
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Old 09-17-09, 01:16 PM
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Re: Obama supports extending Patriot Act provisions

Originally Posted by Thor Simpson View Post
Because you think they are bad policies, or simply because they are Bush policies?
Because I think they are bad policies. I'm not afraid to praise President Bush when he got something right (PEPFAR, for example, and I'm glad President Obama is continuing it).
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