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Same Sex Marriage Thread Part 2

Old 11-13-08, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
No, but people are using their religious beliefs to deny me civil rights.
Yep.


Last edited by LiquidSky; 11-13-08 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 11-13-08, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
you don't think adultary is sex outside of marriage? or is that not what you mean?
I meant what I posted.

'Sex before marriage' is not directly addressed in the bible.

'Adultery' itself has several meaning. The most common biblical meanings are foreign religions instead of following God and His word. And sex with someone while married.

Such as is covered in Matt 5:32. With the word fornication btw. Though the context there is clear.

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Old 11-13-08, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse View Post
I meant what I posted.

'Sex before marriage' is not directly addressed in the bible.

'Adultery' itself has several meaning. The most common biblical meanings are foreign religions instead of following God and His word. And sex with someone while married.

Such as is covered in Matt 5:32. With the word fornication btw. Though the context there is clear.
since fornication means sex outside of marriage, i dont understand how you say it is never addressed in the bible
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Old 11-13-08, 04:05 PM
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Marriage is largely an entity defined by society. Not getting married does not deny any right other than the rights which society outlines for marriage. No freedoms are inhibited other than a title. This is opposed to freedom of religion or freedom of speech, for example, which means that people are inhibited in their practices. As I said before, we are otherwise apparently inhibiting the rights of those who cannot or have not found a spouse. You can take a civil union and call it marriage if you want, but it's a different matter to ask for society's stamp of approval on that title.

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Old 11-13-08, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by LiquidSky View Post
Yep.

Atheist Eve is a whore. There, I said it.
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Old 11-13-08, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
Atheist Eve is a whore. There, I said it.
I need a beer!
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Old 11-13-08, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Thor Simpson View Post
Marriage is largely an entity defined by society. Not getting married does not deny any right other than the rights which society outlines for marriage. No freedoms are inhibited other than a title. This is opposed to freedom of religion or freedom of speech, for example, which means that people are inhibited in their practices. As I said before, we are otherwise apparently inhibiting the rights of those who cannot or have not found a spouse. You can take a civil union and call it marriage if you want, but it's a different matter to ask for society's stamp of approval on that title.
So you're against changing the definition? I still don't see what your argument is for allowing two men or two women to marry based on what you have just said.
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Old 11-13-08, 04:19 PM
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I'm sorry, but the "we'll accept civil unions ... just don't call it marriage!" argument is complete and utter bullshit. Amendment 2 passed in Florida with 62% of the vote -- and it bars not only gay marriage, but any equivalent to marriage -- in other words, it bans civil unions as well.
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Old 11-13-08, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Thor Simpson View Post
Marriage is largely an entity defined by society. Not getting married does not deny any right other than the rights which society outlines for marriage. No freedoms are inhibited other than a title. This is opposed to freedom of religion or freedom of speech, for example, which means that people are inhibited in their practices. As I said before, we are otherwise apparently inhibiting the rights of those who cannot or have not found a spouse. You can take a civil union and call it marriage if you want, but it's a different matter to ask for society's stamp of approval on that title.
Someone needs to learn the difference between civil rights and natural rights.
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Old 11-13-08, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
People have kept saying homosexuals are also being intolerant. Can someone explain to me how I'm supposed to have any respect for an intellectual position which at its basis calls one of the most fundamental parts of my nature to be a sin?
If it makes you feel any better, a good reformed theologian would tell you that all people are composed of a deeply sinful nature.
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Old 11-13-08, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
since fornication means sex outside of marriage, i dont understand how you say it is never addressed in the bible
I'm simply stating what's accurate and obvious.

While The Free Dictionary can define terms accurately for use today, Webster's has a similar definition I'm sure.

That's not the biblical definition or use of the term.

There is no where in the bible where "sex before marriage" is directly addressed. Considering the specificity of the Pentateuch, it's an easy point to understand. They get down to if a cow breaks a fence and wanders into another person's field exactly how to handle it, and who was wronged. It delves into the minutia of these things.

Yet 'sex before marriage' is not specifically addressed. Nor is it anywhere else in the bible.

That simple point is accurate. Words games or no.

You can't post a single place in the bible where 'sex before marriage' is specifically addressed, because it isn't. That was my point.

Fornication is used for many things in the bible, like I covered above. The meanings of 'porneia' are varied.
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Old 11-13-08, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by LiquidSky View Post
I need a beer!
Atheist Eve needs a few beers -- tequila even -- and she can put her mouth to better use.
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Old 11-13-08, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse View Post
I'm simply stating what's accurate and obvious.

While The Free Dictionary can define terms accurately for use today, Webster's has a similar definition I'm sure.

That's not the biblical definition or use of the term.

There is no where in the bible where "sex before marriage" is directly addressed. Considering the specificity of the Pentateuch, it's an easy point to understand. They get down to if a cow breaks a fence and wanders into another person's field exactly how to handle it, and who was wronged. It delves into the minutia of these things.

Yet 'sex before marriage' is not specifically addressed. Nor is it anywhere else in the bible.

That simple point is accurate. Words games or no.

You can't post a single place in the bible where 'sex before marriage' is specifically addressed, because it isn't. That was my point.

Fornication is used for many things in the bible, like I covered above. The meanings of 'porneia' are varied.
The trinity is not specifically addressed either. What exactly is your point?
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Old 11-13-08, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by orangecrush18 View Post
If it makes you feel any better, a good reformed theologian would tell you that all people are composed of a deeply sinful nature.
I feel fine about it. I'm more concerned with them acting hurt when I say I don't respect their position.
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Old 11-13-08, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse View Post
I'm simply stating what's accurate and obvious.

While The Free Dictionary can define terms accurately for use today, Webster's has a similar definition I'm sure.

That's not the biblical definition or use of the term.

There is no where in the bible where "sex before marriage" is directly addressed. Considering the specificity of the Pentateuch, it's an easy point to understand. They get down to if a cow breaks a fence and wanders into another person's field exactly how to handle it, and who was wronged. It delves into the minutia of these things.

Yet 'sex before marriage' is not specifically addressed. Nor is it anywhere else in the bible.

That simple point is accurate. Words games or no.

You can't post a single place in the bible where 'sex before marriage' is specifically addressed, because it isn't. That was my point.

Fornication is used for many things in the bible, like I covered above. The meanings of 'porneia' are varied.
so you're saying fornication doesn't mean sex outside of marriage then?

I think it is pretty evident what the Bible's views are of sex outside of marriage. I don't know how specific a reference you are looking for. What about Deut 22:20 (and surrounding verses)?
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Old 11-13-08, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by wildcatlh View Post
I'm sorry, but the "we'll accept civil unions ... just don't call it marriage!" argument is complete and utter bullshit. Amendment 2 passed in Florida with 62% of the vote -- and it bars not only gay marriage, but any equivalent to marriage -- in other words, it bans civil unions as well.
Let me just say that I object to you, sir. Not your opinion. Not your rationale. But you.....sir.
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Old 11-13-08, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
so you're saying fornication doesn't mean sex outside of marriage then?

I think it is pretty evident what the Bible's views are of sex outside of marriage. I don't know how specific a reference you are looking for. What about Deut 22:20 (and surrounding verses)?
Again, that isn't dealing with 'sex before marriage' is it? That is a daughter promised as a virgin for marriage to man, who has contested virginity.

Good stuff btw...

You might look at 28 and 29 of the same chapter. Gets pretty specific there. But what is the resolution? Get my point?
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Old 11-13-08, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
Let me just say that I object to you, sir. Not your opinion. Not your rationale. But you.....sir.
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Old 11-13-08, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse View Post
Again, that isn't dealing with 'sex before marriage' is it? That is a daughter promised as a virgin for marriage to man, who has contested virginity.
it has everything to do with sex before marriage. where does it state the issue is with her voiding a contract or whatever you're suggesting? verse 21 makes her sin clear: "She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house."
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Old 11-13-08, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
Let me just say that I object to you, sir. Not your opinion. Not your rationale. But you.....sir.
Hmpf ... now I'm gonna go strand myself on some distant island and never return.
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Old 11-13-08, 05:11 PM
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I'm not strenuously opposed to gay marriage, for what it's worth. I'm just trying to convey that side of the argument. Maybe that's why I'm doing a piss poor job of it. I did vote "yes" on prop 8, however.

And I still think you are a bunch of sinners like me.

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Old 11-13-08, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
it has everything to do with sex before marriage. where does it state the issue is with her voiding a contract or whatever you're suggesting? verse 21 makes her sin clear: "She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house."
You're being deliberately difficult at this point aren't you?

So the specific thing addressed, as YOU post, is 'being promiscuous while still in her father's house'.

Not 'sex before marriage'.
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Old 11-13-08, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse View Post
You're being deliberately difficult at this point aren't you?

So the specific thing addressed, as YOU post, is 'being promiscuous while still in her father's house'.

Not 'sex before marriage'.
ha. i was thinking the same thing of you.

what is the difference, in the context of that verse, between those two statements?
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Old 11-13-08, 05:24 PM
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This thread is way better than the last one.
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Old 11-13-08, 05:29 PM
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Too much bible talk for me
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