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Facts about Joe the plumber

Old 10-21-08, 01:32 PM
  #176  
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Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel View Post
I don't think he's a Muslim, terrorist, or communist. I find much bigger fault in his church membership than I do with any supposed terrorist or muslim connection... his willing participation in that church speaks more to his character than anything else. I'm resentful of the number of African-Americans who are voting for him solely based on race (just as I'm irritated at the number of whites voting against him for the same reason). And I'm resentful of the fact that he's been hyped and shoved down our throat since his speech at the DNC in 2004... I remember commentators in the totally unbiased news media glowing over him then as much as they do now. His rise seems a little artificial and staged to me.

That's pretty much where I get my distaste for the man. That, and the fact that I'm pretty sure he's going to ramrod gun control legislation into law. McCain's not much better in any category, and he's worse in some, but at least with him I'm not afraid of my rights actually being infringed in a tangible manner like I am with Obama.


I also think it's a little disingenuous to point out that "taxation is socialist" by nature without commenting on where in the socialist/capitalist continuum an individual's beliefs fall. Virtually any government plan is going to have socialist elements in it. The degree of the socialist elements determines how palatable I find many of the plans.


If Jesus ran as a Democrat? I was pretty much under the impression he was running this year. Surely Farrakhan didn't lie, did he?
and where exactly did you get this impression? I'm guessing out of thin air? Because that's pretty much where the NRA gets their anti-Obama crap...

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Old 10-21-08, 01:37 PM
  #177  
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Obama doesn't need to ramrod any gun legislation. That's what he has Congress for. Do you really think he will veto any such thing if it comes across his desk?
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Old 10-21-08, 01:40 PM
  #178  
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Originally Posted by brizz View Post
and where exactly did you get this impression? I'm guessing out of thin air? Because that's pretty much where the NRA gets their anti-Obama crap...

From what I know of Marvel, he is rather well-versed on gun legislation and the legal rulings, and I would guess he has followed what Obama has said on gun ownership closely. Based on the conflicting things that Obama has said over the years re: gun ownership, given his voting record at the state level for handgun bans, saying vague things such as "I support the 2nd amendment" (whatever the fuck that means), and given the fact that he will have to the opportunity to appoint new SCt Justices (with a potential filibuster-proof Senate majority), I certainly wouldn't say his opinion comes from out of thin air.

Last edited by Red Dog; 10-21-08 at 01:43 PM.
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Old 10-21-08, 07:10 PM
  #179  
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Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel View Post
Perhaps I wasn't clear when I said:

[/b]

You're right. That's my bad for missing that. But then what? I still don't see the hate for Obama.

Again, is it his fault that blacks are voting for him because of his skin color? Is it his fault that he is able to motivate people? Why do you hold that against him? It makes no sense to me.
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Old 10-21-08, 07:26 PM
  #180  
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Obama hasn't exactly gone out of his way to make sure black people vote in the spirit of affirmative action.
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Old 10-21-08, 08:15 PM
  #181  
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and where exactly did you get this impression? I'm guessing out of thin air? Because that's pretty much where the NRA gets their anti-Obama crap...
Crap huh? Looks to me as if he has issues with guns.

http://www.ontheissues.org/domestic/...un_Control.htm

Barack Obama on Gun Control
Democratic Jr Senator (IL)




Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws
Q: Is the D.C. law prohibiting ownership of handguns consistent with an individual's right to bear arms?
A: As a general principle, I believe that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms. But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right, in the same way that we have a right to private property but local governments can establish zoning ordinances that determine how you can use it.

Q: But do you still favor the registration & licensing of guns?

A: I think we can provide common-sense approaches to the issue of illegal guns that are ending up on the streets. We can make sure that criminals don't have guns in their hands. We can make certain that those who are mentally deranged are not getting a hold of handguns. We can trace guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers that may be selling to straw purchasers and dumping them on the streets.

Source: 2008 Philadelphia primary debate, on eve of PA primary Apr 16, 2008

FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban
Obama was being misleading when he denied that his handwriting had been on a document endorsing a state ban on the sale and possession of handguns in Illinois. Obama responded, "No, my writing wasn't on that particular questionnaire. As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns."
Actually, Obama's writing was on the 1996 document, which was filed when Obama was running for the Illinois state Senate. A Chicago nonprofit, Independent Voters of Illinois, had this question, and Obama took hard line:

35. Do you support state legislation to:
a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes.
b. ban assault weapons? Yes.
c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.


Obama's campaign said, "Sen. Obama didn't fill out these state Senate questionnaires--a staffer did--and there are several answers that didn't reflect his views then or now. He may have jotted some notes on the front page of the questionnaire, but some answers didn't reflect his views."

Source: FactCheck.org analysis of 2008 Philadelphia primary debate Apr 16, 2008

Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok
Q: You said recently, "I have no intention of taking away folks' guns." But you support the D.C. handgun ban, and you've said that it's constitutional. How do you reconcile those two positions?
A: Because I think we have two conflicting traditions in this country. I think it's important for us to recognize that we've got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally. And a lot of law-abiding citizens use it for hunting, for sportsmanship, and for protecting their families. We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage. And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets. And cracking down on the various loopholes that exist in terms of background checks for children, the mentally ill. We can have reasonable, thoughtful gun control measure that I think respect the Second Amendment and people's traditions.

Source: 2008 Politico pre-Potomac Primary interview Feb 11, 2008

Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing
Q: When you were in the state senate, you talked about licensing and registering gun owners. Would you do that as president?
A: I don't think that we can get that done. But what we can do is to provide just some common-sense enforcement. The efforts by law enforcement to obtain the information required to trace back guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers. As president, I intend to make it happen. We essentially have two realities, when it comes to guns, in this country. You've got the tradition of lawful gun ownership. It is very important for many Americans to be able to hunt, fish, take their kids out, teach them how to shoot. Then you've got the reality of 34 Chicago public school students who get shot down on the streets of Chicago. We can reconcile those two realities by making sure the Second Amendment is respected and that people are able to lawfully own guns, but that we also start cracking down on the kinds of abuses of firearms that we see on the streets.

Source: 2008 Democratic debate in Las Vegas Jan 15, 2008

2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month
Obama sought moderate gun control measures, such as a 2000 bill he cosponsored to limit handgun purchases to one per month (it did not pass). He voted against letting people violate local weapons bans in cases of self-defense, but also voted in2004 to let retired police officers carry concealed handguns.
Source: The Improbable Quest, by John K. Wilson, p.148 Oct 30, 2007

Concealed carry OK for retired police officers
Obama voted for a bill in the Illinois senate that allowed retired law enforcement officers to carry concealed weapons. If there was any issue on which Obama rarely deviated, it was gun control. He was the most strident candidate when it came to enforcin and expanding gun control laws. So this vote jumped out as inconsistent.
When I queried him about the vote, he said, "I didn't find that [vote] surprising. I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry. This was a narrow exception in an exceptional circumstance where a retired police officer might find himself vulnerable as a consequence of the work he has previously done--and had been trained extensively in the proper use of firearms."

It wasn't until a few weeks later that another theory came forward about the uncharacteristic vote. Obama was battling with his GOP opponent to win the endorsement of the Fraternal Order of Police.

Source: From Promise to Power, by David Mendell, p.250-251 Aug 14, 2007

Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities
Q: How would you address gun violence that continues to be the #1 cause of death among African-American men?
A: You know, when the massacre happened at Virginia Tech, I think all of us were grief stricken and shocked by the carnage. But in this year alone, in Chicago, we've had 34 Chicago public school students gunned down and killed. And for the most part, there has been silence. We know what to do. We've got to enforce the gun laws that are on the books. We've got to make sure that unscrupulous gun dealers aren't loading up vans and dumping guns in our communities, because we know they're not made in our communities. There aren't any gun manufacturers here, right here in the middle of Detroit. But what we also have to do is to make sure that we change our politics so that we care just as much about those 30-some children in Chicago who've been shot as we do the children in Virginia Tech. That's a mindset that we have to have in the White House and we don't have it right now.

Source: 2007 NAACP Presidential Primary Forum Jul 12, 2007

Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality
I believe in keeping guns out of our inner cities, and that our leaders must say so in the face of the gun manfuacturer's lobby. But I also believe that when a gangbanger shoots indiscriminately into a crowd because he feels someone disrespected him, we have a problem of morality. Not only do ew need to punish thatman for his crime, but we need to acknowledge that there's a hole in his heart, one that government programs alone may not be able to repair.
Source: The Audacity of Hope, by Barack Obama, p.215 Oct 1, 2006

Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban
KEYES: [to Obama]: I am a strong believer in the second amendment. The gun control mentality is ruthlessly absurd. It suggests that we should pass a law that prevents law abiding citizens from carrying weapons. You end up with a situation where the crook have all the guns and the law abiding citizens cannot defend themselves. I guess that's good enough for Senator Obama who voted against the bill that would have allowed homeowners to defend themselves if their homes were broken into.
OBAMA: Let's be honest. Mr. Keyes does not believe in common gun control measures like the assault weapons bill. Mr. Keyes does not believe in any limits from what I can tell with respect to the possession of guns, including assault weapons that have only one purpose, to kill people. I think it is a scandal that this president did not authorize a renewal of the assault weapons ban.

Source: Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes Oct 21, 2004

Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions
Principles that Obama supports on gun issues:
Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.
Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms.
Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms.
Source: 1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test Jul 2, 1998

Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers.
A bill to prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages, injunctive or other relief resulting from the misuse of their products by others. Voting YES would:
Exempt lawsuits brought against individuals who knowingly transfer a firearm that will be used to commit a violent or drug-trafficking crime
Exempt lawsuits against actions that result in death, physical injury or property damage due solely to a product defect
Call for the dismissal of all qualified civil liability actions pending on the date of enactment by the court in which the action was brought
Prohibit the manufacture, import, sale or delivery of armor piercing ammunition, and sets a minimum prison term of 15 years for violations
Require all licensed importers, manufacturers and dealers who engage in the transfer of handguns to provide secure gun storage or safety devices
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Old 10-21-08, 08:45 PM
  #182  
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Originally Posted by BKenn01 View Post
Crap huh? Looks to me as if he has issues with guns.

http://www.ontheissues.org/domestic/...un_Control.htm
All that was said by the NRA's evil, alternate dimension clone of Barack that they use to discredit him. You can tell if you look at the videos because he has a goatee.
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Old 10-24-08, 01:11 AM
  #183  
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Olbermann's 'campaign comment' calling McCain to stop the Joe the Plumber nonsense, also revealing that Joe is in talks to a book deal.
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Old 10-28-08, 08:37 PM
  #184  
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McCain should've listened to Olbermann:

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Old 10-28-08, 09:06 PM
  #185  
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What an idiot.
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Old 10-28-08, 09:41 PM
  #186  
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Originally Posted by BigDaddy View Post
What an idiot.
That's McCain's boy all right.
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Old 10-29-08, 01:39 AM
  #187  
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Sad part is, Joe could probably be McCain's campaign advisor at this point. Out of touch, lacking any factual grounding, and shrill as can be -- that's about right, isn't it?
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Old 10-29-08, 01:46 AM
  #188  
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This Joe guy is such a tool. Is there any doubt that he was planted by the GOP.
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Old 10-29-08, 03:28 AM
  #189  
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Originally Posted by danstheday View Post
This Joe guy is such a tool. Is there any doubt that he was planted by the GOP.
I'm starting to wonder if he was planted by the Democrats.
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Old 10-29-08, 07:10 AM
  #190  
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Why is this moran even given airtime to spout BS that he can't even explain or prove?

Pathetic
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Old 10-29-08, 01:25 PM
  #191  
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Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel View Post


I also think it's a little disingenuous to point out that "taxation is socialist" by nature without commenting on where in the socialist/capitalist continuum an individual's beliefs fall. Virtually any government plan is going to have socialist elements in it. The degree of the socialist elements determines how palatable I find many of the plans.
I think that's actually the reason for the criticism: just because your opponent is (say) 1% less capitalistic than you, that doesn't justify labelling him as a socialist or a Marxist.

The funny thing is that Bush, and with that McCain, has probably redistributed more wealth during these last eight years than Obama will ever dream of. It's because you can't do that in any democratic society, unless you choose to get the money from people who have no say (yet) in the democratic process of your country.
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Old 10-29-08, 01:30 PM
  #192  
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Originally Posted by mgbfan View Post
Sad part is, Joe could probably be McCain's campaign advisor at this point. Out of touch, lacking any factual grounding, and shrill as can be -- that's about right, isn't it?
Sounds like he could be Obama's too. Screw it, let's just have both candidates and Joe in a room together and let him decide who gets it.
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Old 10-29-08, 01:43 PM
  #193  
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Who knew Joe the Plumber tap danced better than Sammy Davis, Jr.?
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Old 10-29-08, 02:54 PM
  #194  
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Originally Posted by DVD Josh View Post
Sounds like he could be Obama's too.
How so? I realize you're on the right, but I'm not sure this makes any sense.
Screw it, let's just have both candidates and Joe in a room together and let him decide who gets it.
Probably McCain's only hope.
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Old 10-29-08, 04:07 PM
  #195  
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Originally Posted by mgbfan View Post
How so? I realize you're on the right, but I'm not sure this makes any sense.
I am not on the right. I am just voting for McCain. I voted for Kerry in 2004, Gore in 2000, and Clinton before that. I am voting for a democrat for Senator. I am at best, a conservative democrat.

Both campaigns are staffed by delusional crazy people.
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Old 10-29-08, 05:10 PM
  #196  
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Originally Posted by Jaymole View Post
Why is this moran even given airtime to spout BS that he can't even explain or prove?

Pathetic
Well, I know the answer to this question but I would prefer if you went out and did your own research and looked at the facts for yourself.
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Old 10-29-08, 05:14 PM
  #197  
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Originally Posted by Jaymole View Post
Why is this moran even given airtime to spout BS that he can't even explain or prove?

Pathetic
I think you meant to post that in this thread: link
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Old 10-29-08, 05:19 PM
  #198  
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Originally Posted by Mordred View Post
Well, I know the answer to this question but I would prefer if you went out and did your own research and looked at the facts for yourself.


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Old 10-29-08, 06:22 PM
  #199  
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Fuck Joe the Plumber. He's a fucking douchebag.
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Old 10-29-08, 07:46 PM
  #200  
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On the rare occasion I watch Fox I wonder how Shepherd Smith can work there. He actually seems like a competent newsman who challenges a guy like Joe The Plumber instead of giving him a blow job like most of the other Fox talent.
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