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Facts about Joe the plumber

Old 10-17-08, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by taa455 View Post
That might be your belief, but I would disagree. This country already has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world.
Only when you fail to consider the many loopholes built into the tax code. McCain is gonna tell you 35%. Don't believe it for a second.
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Old 10-17-08, 04:52 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by Doughboy View Post
So let me get this straight. Because Joe had the audacity to ask Obama a question about his tax policy when he was approached on his front lawn, because Obama chose to stand there for 5 1/2 minutes explaining his plans to "spread the wealth around", and because the media chose to air the footage of this encounter, that justifies digging up every aspect of this man's life in order to discredit him as if he were the one running for public office?

Where exactly is this going to end? In just the last month and a half, I've seen people defend the smearing of Sarah Palin's husband, daughter, and newborn son who has Down Syndrome. I've seen "truth squads" deployed to Missouri to threaten anyone who makes any statement about Obama interpreted by his campaign as untrue or misleading. I've seen TV stations threatened with repercussions if they choose to run 527 ads from the NRA. I've seen the Obama campaign e-mail its supporters urging them to flood a WGN radio station with calls in order to protest the booking of a conservative writer as a talk show guest. And now I'm witnessing the smearing of a private citizen whose only "crime" as I see it is asking a Presidential candidate a hypothetical question.

And all this is BEFORE Obama is even in the Oval Office. Imagine him and his supporters with the full power of the government at their disposal. This is truly dangerous territory we're entering. The kind of stuff Orwell and Rand wrote about. And what scares me more than anything is that many people appear to be cheering it on.
Really? REALLY? After 8 years of Bush led Karl Rove smearing of unconscionable levels you really want to go there? really?

We don't have to imagine what it would be like to have a president with no respect for civil rights and orwellian abuses of power - we've been living it for 8 fucking years!
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Old 10-17-08, 05:37 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by Nausicaa View Post
Joe was a youtube-of-the-day with a few thousand views. It was McCain who had the 'audacity' to use him as a campaign prop. Predictably, like most of McCain's campaign, it turned to shit.
Exactly. Leave it to McCain to just go off half cocked and blow something out of his ass without thinking about it (he himself has said in the past he will react first and then worry about the consequences later. Yeah, we need this man and Sarah Palin next to the "button.")

If "Joe the Plumber" is receiving scrutiny right now, he shouldn't take it personally. It's just one more example of McCain not researching something fully before he decides to bring it up. The fact that the media was able to find the true facts about Joe so fast means McCain's team should have found them even faster before he went on national TV spouting off about it as if he knew Joe personally, in and out.

Kind of like he should have picked a VP nominee that he knew in and out, and vetted fully, not just picking the first Republican governor that had a vagina thinking Hillary voters would vote for anything female.
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Old 10-17-08, 06:15 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by calhoun07 View Post
If "Joe the Plumber" is receiving scrutiny right now, he shouldn't take it personally. It's just one more example of McCain not researching something fully before he decides to bring it up. The fact that the media was able to find the true facts about Joe so fast means McCain's team should have found them even faster before he went on national TV spouting off about it as if he knew Joe personally, in and out.
What a pile of bullshit. You act as though Joe had no business challenging Obama and should be "vetted" before his valid question has merit. God forbid a citizen of the US ask a question of a Presidential candidate. What the fuck is wrong with people? Can you honestly say that Joe had no business challenging Obama? Are we not allowed to question our "leaders"? McCain seized on this because of the answer that Joe got from Obama. The fact that the media decided to trash this man for having the same types of problems that, I would bet, many on this board have is very telling. I mean, why cover Obama's grand social experiment when you can just silence the dissent? What else is telling is that Obama supporters don't seem to have a problem with the media trashing this man as long as it deflects from the great Obama. If the media attacked someone for asking a question of Bush, how many of you defending this hit job would be up in arms? Be honest.

Last edited by Binger; 10-17-08 at 06:20 PM.
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Old 10-17-08, 06:21 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by Binger View Post
What a pile of bullshit. You act as though Joe had no business challenging Obama and should be "vetted" before his valid question has merit.
I stopped reading here because you obviously failed to read my post. Go back and re-read it and get back to me.
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Old 10-17-08, 06:36 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by calhoun07 View Post
I stopped reading here because you obviously failed to read my post. Go back and re-read it and get back to me.
Oh, I read your post. I still see the same thing....deflection. McCain, half cocked, doesn't think, Palin=bad, blah, blah, blah. The media is deflecting here and you seem a willing accomplice. McCain is supposed to vet a US citizen asking a politcian a question?

News flash...Joe is not the story. McCain saying "my good friend Joe" is not the story. Obama has come out, in public, in favor of "spreading the wealth". That is the story.
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Old 10-17-08, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Binger View Post
Oh, I read your post. I still see the same thing....deflection. McCain, half cocked, doesn't think, Palin=bad, blah, blah, blah. The media is deflecting here and you seem a willing accomplice. McCain is supposed to vet a US citizen asking a politcian a question?

News flash...Joe is not the story. McCain saying "my good friend Joe" is not the story. Obama has come out, in public, in favor of "spreading the wealth". That is the story.
No... McCain is supposed to vet him before using him as a prop at the debate... Maybe find out if Joe is making enough to buy the business, and if the business is making enough to get taxed under Obama's plan. And he REALLY should have checked to see if Joe would actually make more under his plan than Obama's
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Old 10-17-08, 07:36 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by brizz View Post
We don't have to imagine what it would be like to have a president with no respect for civil rights and orwellian abuses of power - we've been living it for 8 fucking years!
Looks like Obama's living up to the high standards set by the Bush Presidency. Four more years of no respect for civil rights and Orwellian abuses of power.

The Change We Need!
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Old 10-17-08, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by shadowhawk2020 View Post
No... McCain is supposed to vet him before using him as a prop at the debate... Maybe find out if Joe is making enough to buy the business, and if the business is making enough to get taxed under Obama's plan. And he REALLY should have checked to see if Joe would actually make more under his plan than Obama's
He does not care - he continues to use him on the stump today. I think the message is strong for people that dont look into the details so they keep going with it.
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Old 10-17-08, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Binger View Post
Oh, I read your post. I still see the same thing....deflection. McCain, half cocked, doesn't think, Palin=bad, blah, blah, blah. The media is deflecting here and you seem a willing accomplice. McCain is supposed to vet a US citizen asking a politcian a question?

News flash...Joe is not the story. McCain saying "my good friend Joe" is not the story. Obama has come out, in public, in favor of "spreading the wealth". That is the story.
If you were a Presidential Candidate, would you name somebody on National television without first checking with your campaign manager as to the viability of the person? For all you know the person you shook hands with is a child molester or a wanted felon, or both.

Think man. That's all we're talking about here. McCain didn't think. Politics 101. Hell, it's Politics 99.
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Old 10-17-08, 10:57 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by TheBigDave View Post
Looks like Obama's living up to the high standards set by the Bush Presidency. Four more years of no respect for civil rights and Orwellian abuses of power.

The Change We Need!
yes, because Obama forced Joe to go on 17 talk shows and lie his ass off and then sicked the media on him to uncover said lies. yep...Obama did all that. bastard.
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Old 10-18-08, 12:13 AM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by Binger View Post
Oh, I read your post. I still see the same thing....deflection. McCain, half cocked, doesn't think, Palin=bad, blah, blah, blah. The media is deflecting here and you seem a willing accomplice. McCain is supposed to vet a US citizen asking a politcian a question?
No. He should have checked the facts before spouting off random things as if they were facts. Or he should shut the hell up when the media brings it to the nation's attention that he was wrong. Because all I saw in the headlines this afternoon on his response was pretty much whining. The old man needs to get over it. People are going to do fact checking, and yes, both candidates like to spout off "facts" that are not entirely correct. That is why we have fact checkers. But McCain managed to make a point of Joe the plumber over and over and over again, the the point of exhaustion. He made it a story. He spoke with great authority on the subject, and was wrong.

And my only point is if he wanted to speak with such great authority on Joe, then his team could have just as easily found out the true facts like the media did. Or he could have just mentioned Joe, went on to the next subject, and stop beating the horse. Or, as I said, stop whining when people point out he was wrong.

And the only use of "vetted" in my post refers to Palin, NOT Joe the plumber. I never once made the statement that McCain should have vetted Joe. Reread the post and get back to me. I just made a point that he could have had some fact checking done on Joe before making it a main talking point that became the focus of the entire debate. If he wanted to throw Joe's name out as a quick example and move on, then no...I don't think he should have to research the same things the media did. But he decided to make it a major point, and revisited it often. Any debater that decides to revisit a point over and over again should know something about that topic, and not be making things up and talking out of their ass about it.

And the fact checkers usually find fault in throw away comments that are not focused on for long periods of time in debates. This is one example of a point in a debate that was brought up by McCain over and over again that the fact checkers found full of holes, and McCain either needs to own up to that or shut up.

And I stand by the statement that he himself has said in the past he will react first and then worry about the consequences later.

Last edited by calhoun07; 10-18-08 at 12:25 AM.
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Old 10-18-08, 03:26 AM
  #113  
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I have a simple solution to McCain's lil' problem. He could just claim that his old age ailed him and he mistakenly spoke about the wrong plumber. His "good friend" is actually Mark, not Joe.

Likewise, he could say that everytime a bill on U.S. Servicemembers or Veterans comes to vote, he forgets that he is a vet, and that he cares about those he served with [who he calls heroes], and that is why he is graded a 'D' by the IAVA, and a '20%' by the Disabled Veterans of America. And it's why he votes AGAINST funding the VA. Heh.


He's senile, you see.

E
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Old 10-18-08, 07:25 AM
  #114  
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Why all this talk about Obama's plan or McCain's plan?

Do you really believe that either is going to be implemented?

If either one of them were truly being honest, Obama would have said (in the last debate) 'I will raise your taxes; and, so will John McCain.' McCain would have said the same thing.

Of course neither would have been politically the wise thing to do, but it would have have been the honest thing to do. Political expediency trumps honesty every time.

Last edited by classicman2; 10-18-08 at 07:29 AM.
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Old 10-18-08, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Thor Simpson View Post
Joe the Plumber with 2 threads. The Obama camp is getting desperate. Or it is "cocky?"

Do you mean McCain camp? Obama's camp is pretty much on cruise control.
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Old 10-18-08, 10:31 AM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by Binger View Post
What the fuck is wrong with people? Can you honestly say that Joe had no business challenging Obama? Are we not allowed to question our "leaders"?
There should be some reasonable expectation that the person asking the question is basing their question in reality. "Joe" the "Plumber" is a republican shill.
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Old 10-18-08, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post
If either one of them were truly being honest, Obama would have said (in the last debate) 'I will raise your taxes; and, so will John McCain.' McCain would have said the same thing.
It worked for President Mondale.

Between the anti-tax Republicans and the Keynesians, taxes are not going up any time soon.
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Old 10-19-08, 02:16 AM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
If you were a Presidential Candidate, would you name somebody on National television without first checking with your campaign manager as to the viability of the person?
Did you see his VP pick? How is this surprising?
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Old 10-19-08, 04:49 AM
  #119  
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I can see the 2012 repubilcan ticket now: Sarah Palin and Joe the Plumber.

The world's going to end about six weeks after the election, so they might as well go for it.
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Old 10-19-08, 06:12 AM
  #120  
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I think Joe the Plumber could kick Obama's ass.

He could mop the floor with Obama.
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Old 10-19-08, 10:05 AM
  #121  
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NEW YORK "Joe the Plumber" is lashing out at the media for analyzing his personal life since he suddenly became a focal point of the presidential race last week.

Joe Wurzelbacher, a plumber from Holland, Ohio, told Mike Huckabee on his Fox News talk show Saturday that he is upset by the attention and has been unable to work with reporters crowded on his front lawn.

"The media's worried about whether I've paid my taxes, they're worried about any number of silly things that have nothing to do with America," Wurzelbacher told the former Republican presidential hopeful on his show, "Huckabee."

Wurzelbacher said he felt terrible after reading some of the criticism of himself posted online.

"I felt about that small," he said. "I mean I really did."

Republican presidential candidate John McCain has been portraying Wurzelbacher as emblematic of people with concerns about Obama's tax plans.

Wurzelbacher became famous after he met Obama and said the Democrat's tax proposal could keep him from buying the two-man plumbing company where he works. However, reports of Wurzelbacher's annual earnings suggest he would receive a tax cut rather than an increase under Obama's plan.

"You know, I am a plumber," Wurzelbacher said. "Just a plumber."

Wurzelbacher said he agreed to appear on the show after he received phone calls from friends serving in the military who voiced their support.

"You know, when you can't ask a question of your leaders anymore, that gets scary," he said.

On Sunday, McCain was to travel to Ohio, where he might appear with Wurzelbacher.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081019/...0gpbUS33is0NUE


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bahahaha...Joe is getting what he deserved. I mean, of course it matters whether or not he pays taxes...if he doesn't pay tax, then it doesn't matter if tax rates go thru the roof, since he doesn't pay.

And of course the media is concerned about whether or not he pays taxes...McCain shows (or pretends to show) genuine interest in Joe's well being and his taxes. So, if everyone in America were to be like Joe and not pay taxes, then where would we be today?

bottom line, he tried to call out Obama, and got caught in a boldfaced lie.

McCain, as he has done in the past, did not check the facts out thoroughly, so there's nothing new here.
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Old 10-19-08, 10:09 AM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
It worked for President Mondale.

Between the anti-tax Republicans and the Keynesians, taxes are not going up any time soon.
I didn't say it was the politically the smart thing to do. It's just the honest thing to do.
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Old 10-19-08, 10:34 AM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by D.Pham00 View Post
bottom line, he tried to call out Obama, and got caught in a boldfaced lie.

McCain, as he has done in the past, did not check the facts out thoroughly, so there's nothing new here.
I wonder how much of this is genuine. I have little doubt that Joe might have felt 'small' after being criticized by the press. That's what happens when you lie about who you are and get called out on it. You feel small - and you should. But his reaction is to go complain and play the victim on Fox News right in the national spotlight, bringing even more attention?

And now McCain might be appearing with Joe today? It wouldn't surprise me if McCain put him up to this to make a point about 'liberals' and the 'mainstream media'. This...

"You know, when you can't ask a question of your leaders anymore, that gets scary," he said.
...pretty much confirms it. McCain has been trying to bait the Obama campaign and scream 'foul' for weeks now. Obama has been a pretty straight shooter so far, which is why the McCain campaign's attempts to play the victim and demonize the left are so transparent. Outrage over the Lewis comment, outrage over calling out hateful comments at rallies, and now outrage over Joe.

It all fits in nicely with their larger theme that Obama is just an 'eloquent speaker' who has captured the support of the 'mainstream media', making it easy to disguise his real identity as an America-hating far-left terrorist-loving Socialist that enjoys killing babies. This is a losing strategy, since this shit doesn't have much appeal beyond the Republican base, a large segment of which seems increasingly willing to entertain conspiracy theories.

Last edited by Nausicaa; 10-19-08 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 10-19-08, 12:12 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post
I didn't say it was the politically the smart thing to do. It's just the honest thing to do.
Deficit spending is neither honest nor dishonest. It is a fiscal policy with consequences, both good and bad. Same for a balanced budget.

In my opinion, the bad consequences of cutting spending and/or raising taxes during a recessionary period outweigh the good consequences of balancing the budget.
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Old 10-19-08, 12:20 PM
  #125  
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aargh!

Originally Posted by shadowhawk2020 View Post
No... McCain is supposed to vet him before using him as a prop at the debate... Maybe find out if Joe is making enough to buy the business, and if the business is making enough to get taxed under Obama's plan. And he REALLY should have checked to see if Joe would actually make more under his plan than Obama's

Good Lord. I don't care if Joe the Plumber is William Ayres himself! The point that everyone ('cept for a few) overlook is that Obama is a Socialist. Perhaps many on this forum aren't bother in the least by this fact but I am. Joe could be a ballerina for all I care. Who cares who he is? Is it what Obama revealed that is pertinent here. aaargh!
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