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So, are we at war with Pakistan?

Old 09-16-08, 03:18 PM
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So, are we at war with Pakistan?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...r=HOME_4452192

Pakistan Tells Army To Fire On U.S. Troops

Order Is Response To U.S. Air, Ground Raids; Pentagon Urges Islamabad To Revise Comment

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan, Sept. 16, 2008

(CBS/ AP) Pakistan's military has ordered its forces to open fire if U.S. troops launch another air or ground raid across the Afghan border, an army spokesman said Tuesday.

The orders, which come in response to a highly unusual Sept. 3 ground attack by U.S. commandos, are certain to heighten tensions between Washington and a key ally against terrorism. Although the ground attack was rare, there have been repeated reports of U.S. drone aircraft striking militant targets, most recently on Sept. 12.

However, the Pentagon said Islamabad will "correct the record" the volatile statement.


Spokesman Bryan Whitman said Pakistan is an ally in the global war on terror, adding that the U.S. enjoys "good cooperation with Pakistan along the border."

Pakistani officials warn that stepped-up cross-border raids will accomplish little while fueling violent religious extremism in nuclear-armed Pakistan. Some complain that the country is a scapegoat for the failure to stabilize Afghanistan.

Pakistan's civilian leaders, who have taken a hard line against Islamic militants since forcing Pervez Musharraf to resign as president last month, have insisted that Pakistan must resolve the dispute with Washington through diplomatic channels.

However, army spokesman Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas told The Associated Press that after U.S. helicopters ferried troops into a militant stronghold in the South Waziristan tribal region, the military told field commanders to prevent any similar raids.

"The orders are clear," Abbas said in an interview. "In case it happens again in this form, that there is a very significant detection, which is very definite, no ambiguity, across the border, on ground or in the air: open fire."

U.S. military commanders accuse Islamabad of doing too little to prevent the Taliban and other militant groups from recruiting, training and resupplying in Pakistan's wild tribal belt.


Pakistan acknowledges the presence of al Qaeda fugitives and its difficulties in preventing militants from seeping through the mountainous border into Afghanistan.

However, it insists it is doing what it can and paying a heavy price, pointing to its deployment of more then 100,000 troops in its increasingly restive northwest and a wave of suicide bombings across the country.

After talks Tuesday with British officials in London, Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari said he did not "think there will be any more" cross-border raids by the U.S. He declined to comment on the order to use lethal force against American troops.

Instead, he and British Prime Minister Gordon Brown issued a joint statement saying Afghanistan and Pakistan should lead the efforts to battle border militancy. The joint statement left out any mention of the United States.

American officials have confirmed their forces carried out the Sept. 3 raid near the town of Angoor Ada but given few details of what happened.

Abbas said that Pakistan's military had asked for an explanation but received only a "half-page" of "very vague" information that failed to identify the intended target.

Pakistani officials have said the raid killed about 15 people, and Abbas said they all appeared to be civilians.

"These were truck drivers, local traders and their families," he said.

How to reverse a surge in Taliban violence in Afghanistan has become a major issue in the U.S. presidential campaign and refocused attention on the porous border with Pakistan.

Pakistan's military has won American praise for a six-week offensive against militants in the Bajur tribal region that officials here say has killed 700 suspected insurgents and about 40 troops. Troops backed by warplanes killed eight more alleged militants Tuesday, officials said.

In the same timeframe, there has been a surge in missile strikes apparently carried out by unmanned U.S. drones. Such attacks killed at least two senior al Qaeda commanders earlier this year.

Abbas did not say when exactly the orders for Pakistani troops to open fire to prevent cross-border raids by U.S. troops were issued. He wouldn't discuss whether Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, who replaced Musharraf as army chief last year, personally took the decision or if the orders had been discussed with American officials.

The spokesman also played down suggestions that the instructions had been put into practice before dawn on Monday, when U.S. helicopters reportedly landed near Angoor Ada only to fly away after troops fired warning shots.

Abbas insisted no foreign troops had crossed the border and that "trigger-happy tribesmen" had fired the shots. Pakistani troops based nearby fired flares to see what was going on, he said.

The U.S. military in Afghanistan said none of its troops were involved.

In a rare public statement last week, Kayani said Pakistan's sovereignty would be defended "at all cost." Abbas said Pakistani officials had to consider public opinion, which is skeptical of American goals in the region and harbors sympathy for rebels fighting in the name of Islam.

"Please look at the public reaction to this kind of adventure or incursion," Abbas said. "The army is also an extension of the public and you can only satisfy the public when you match your words with your actions."

Meanwhile, U.S. lawmakers are promising close scrutiny of the Bush administration's request to divert hundreds of millions of dollars in anti-terrorism aid to upgrade Pakistan's aging fleet of U.S.-made F-16 fighter planes.

The Bush administration says the upgraded F-16s will allow Pakistan to better conduct precision attacks on terrorists. But the planes have not traditionally been used in anti-terrorism operations. Pakistan sees them as an asset in its arms race against rival India.


MMVIII, CBS Interactive Inc
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Old 09-16-08, 03:21 PM
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Doesn't look like they have fired on us yet, so not at war. But it's definitely getting testy. Wonder if Barack Obama wants to take some ground troops in there now.
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Old 09-16-08, 03:25 PM
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Didn't Syrian forces fire on us in Iraq? We didn't go to war with them
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Old 09-16-08, 03:50 PM
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The real question is: Why are we not at war with Pakistan???
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Old 09-16-08, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by dan30oly View Post
The real question is: Why are we not at war with Pakistan???
Cause we haven't come up with a cute jingle?

"Bomb bomb bomb, Bomb bomb Pakistan" just doesn't have the right ring to it.
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Old 09-16-08, 04:44 PM
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If you take out the 5th "bomb" it works well enough for me. I'll start the paperwork.
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Old 09-16-08, 05:20 PM
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We are at war with <s>Eastasia</s> Pakistan. We have always been at war with <s>Eastasia</s> Pakistan.
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Old 09-16-08, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by dan30oly View Post
The real question is: Why are we not at war with Pakistan???
A) They have nukes.

B) Why don't we just delegate the issue to India?
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Old 09-16-08, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by dan30oly View Post
The real question is: Why are we not at war with Pakistan???
On no. Not only has John McCain learned how to use a computer, he's hacked into dan30oly's account!
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Old 09-17-08, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
A) They have nukes.

B) Why don't we just delegate the issue to India?
A) They would never even think about using the nukes against the U.S.
B) Delegating the issue to India??? That is a country that Pakistan would use the nukes on. Not a good idea.

Originally Posted by Thor Simpson View Post
On no. Not only has John McCain learned how to use a computer, he's hacked into dan30oly's account!
You forget, McBrilliant doesn't know how to use a computer.
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Old 09-17-08, 09:52 AM
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That was my underhanded point.
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Old 09-22-08, 08:28 AM
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DERA ISMAIL KHAN, Pakistan - Pakistani troops and tribesmen opened fire on two U.S. helicopters that crossed into the country from neighboring Afghanistan, intelligence officials said Monday.

The helicopters did not return fire and re-entered Afghan airspace without landing, theofficials said.

Pakistan's army and the U.S. military in Afghanistan said they had no information on the reported incursion late Sunday, which will likely add to tensions between Islamabad and Washington.
____________

Question: Should the U.S. helicopters have returned the fire?
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Old 09-22-08, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
A) They have nukes.

B) Why don't we just delegate the issue to India?
Because corporate America has a huge presence in India and would not want to see their investments there disturbed.
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Old 09-22-08, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
A) They have nukes.

B) Why don't we just delegate the issue to India?
Because India would outsource the job.
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Old 09-22-08, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by sracer View Post
Because corporate America has a huge presence in India and would not want to see their investments there disturbed.
Yeah, where else will we have access to cheap customer service reps who can barely speak English?
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Old 09-22-08, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
Yeah, where else will we have access to cheap customer service reps who can barely speak English?
Arkansas?
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Old 09-22-08, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by wildcatlh View Post
We are at war with <s>Eastasia</s> Pakistan. We have always been at war with <s>Eastasia</s> Pakistan.

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Old 09-25-08, 04:38 PM
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080925/...as_afghanistan

another exchange of bullets.
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Old 09-25-08, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
Perhaps US forces should consider restraining themselves before there's an international incident.
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Old 09-25-08, 05:49 PM
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The Pakistani President claims that his troops fired only flares at the US helicopters. The US doesn't seems to agree.

Have Pakistan arrested anyone for the recent hotel bombing? I think the President had offered asylum to al Qaeda members - what has been the outcome so far?
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Old 09-25-08, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by huzefa View Post
Arkansas?

Yeah, but can they talk and type at the same time?

Makes you wonder where Clinton and Huckabee learnt to speak so good.
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Old 09-25-08, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
Didn't Syrian forces fire on us in Iraq? We didn't go to war with them
and there are plenty of Iranian special forces in Iraq
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Old 09-25-08, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Breakfast with Girls View Post
Perhaps US forces should consider restraining themselves before there's an international incident.
I would rather the US destroy Pakistan. That's a country that needs destroyin.

Seriously. If we are fired upon, fire back and destroy the target.
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Old 09-25-08, 09:09 PM
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People, we don't need to go to war with Pakistan anymore; just have Palin give him a lapdance and he'll hand OBL over on a platter!

Palin gets cozy with Pakistan's president
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Old 09-25-08, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by bhk View Post
I would rather the US destroy Pakistan. That's a country that needs destroyin.

Seriously. If we are fired upon, fire back and destroy the target.
Is Pakistan a sovereign country? And if so, why was Condi bitching about Russia in regards to the "sovereign" country of Georgia?
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