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What would it take for you to vote across the aisle?

Old 09-15-08, 02:49 AM
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What would it take for you to vote across the aisle?

I don't think anyone in my immediate family has ever voted for a Republican candidate as president. So I've recently wondered what it would take for me to seriously vote across the aisle. The fact is that its hard to vote for a party whose ideals you don't share.

But I came to the realization that there is a strong chance that I would have voted for McCain back in 2000 if he had won the Republican primaries. I truly liked Gore as a vice-president, but McCain in 2000 was probably the first time I thought, "Well, here's someone who might be able to actually bridge that gap that so many politicians talk about but never really are able to bridge." Someone who could actually rise above the partisan bickering and possibly bring out the best aspects of both parties and, in turn, the country. Someone whose ideals I didn't share entirely, but at least there was some degree of understanding (largely in his moderate social views and work on lobbying reform). Maybe the idea of someone who can bridge the gap is not possible or is just a naive fantasy. But for a while there, I truly thought it might just happen

Well, now it is 2008 and sadly that man is no more. For all of his talk of reform, he has virtually made it impossible for reform to take place within a possible McCain administration. For votes, he has largely become the thing he rallied against so badly. And even if I felt a sign of the man from 2000 remained, and this posturing for the religious right was only a ruse until election, I see no sign of any such interest in his running mate. This past election, as in years before, the discourse (or lack thereof) has just worked to make the divide wider. (And for what it is worth, I'm not any more convinced Obama would bridge that gap any better).

But in 2000, on that naive belief, I would have probably broken with family tradition and voted across the aisle.

So my question is: Realistically, have you ever or could you ever seriously consider voting across the aisle, and if so, what would it take?
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Old 09-15-08, 03:26 AM
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I'm actually a registered independent believe it or not, and i'm voting democrat this year. This is the first year i've actually followed politics. I was actually contomplating voting for McCain after super tuesday I believe (or the day he won south carolina) Well, then i found out about all the voting with Bush most of the time, the flip flopping, and well, the idea of Palin being president, supposing McCain croaks scares me. That and i agree on most of Obama's view points.

And hey, someone else from Reisterstown.
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Old 09-15-08, 03:30 AM
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For Democrats to take a rational, humane stance on abortion.

If someone doesn't display the common sense to grasp the most obvious, basic issues of protecting the most defenseless human life...or worse, is unwilling to summon the courage & compassion to face the issue...that is a deal-breaker so far as trusting their judgment on other issues of consequence.
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Old 09-15-08, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
For Democrats to take a rational, humane stance on abortion.

If someone doesn't display the common sense to grasp the most obvious, basic issues of protecting the most defenseless human life...or worse, is unwilling to summon the courage & compassion to face the issue...that is a deal-breaker so far as trusting their judgment on other issues of consequence.
So I guess the flip-side question would be:

- Could you support a candidate who supports the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (or any war, for that matter), with the knowledge that many innocent, defenselesss human lives of all ages are lost because of war?

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Old 09-15-08, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by TheAllPurposeNothing View Post

Could you support a candidate who supports the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (or any war, for that matter), with the knowledge that many innocent, defenselesss human lives of all ages are lost because of war?
Many innocent, defenseless human lives of all ages are lost in any war whether you justify it or not.
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Old 09-15-08, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Rypro 525 View Post
I'm actually a registered independent believe it or not, and i'm voting democrat this year. This is the first year i've actually followed politics. I was actually contomplating voting for McCain after super tuesday I believe (or the day he won south carolina) Well, then i found out about all the voting with Bush most of the time, the flip flopping, and well, the idea of Palin being president, supposing McCain croaks scares me. That and i agree on most of Obama's view points.

And hey, someone else from Reisterstown.
Did you know most democrats 'vote with Bush' about 75% of the time? I'm always confused about that line. Does Bush vote somewhere? Also, isn't Obama the picture of flip flopping? Why judge McCain in one light and Obama in the other? Lastly, if Palin scares you, why doesn't Obama? Both are equally inexperienced, only Obama will be guaranteed to be president.

If these are your reasons for voting across the aisle, I'm disappointed.

For me, I would (and have) voted across the aisle (voted for Clinton over Dole) because I thought Dole was a very weak candidate, severely out of touch and I was going with Clinton's centrist first term which went pretty well. Little did I know what was to come. I would vote for a Liebermann democrat, someone tough on defense, strict with the budget, and pretty centrist or 'status quo' on everything else.
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Old 09-15-08, 08:06 AM
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McCain could get my vote if he wasn't so hawkish and he had a more reasonable fiscal policy. Show specific cuts in spending to pay for the tax cuts he wants.

Obama could get my vote if he didn't want the govt to grow so much - mostly universal healthcare. Also his wanting to increase my taxes doesn't help.
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Old 09-15-08, 08:07 AM
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For me to vote Democrat they would have to go more conservative with spending, reduce federal government intervention in American society (i.e. less socialistic), and a more realistic energy policy. As a Republican I have been very disappointed in Bush's high budget deficits. Runaway spending HAS to stop.
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Old 09-15-08, 08:16 AM
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As far as fiscal discipline is concerned - neither party will give y'all the kind of discipline you claim you want.
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Old 09-15-08, 08:31 AM
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I know
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Old 09-15-08, 08:38 AM
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I love how every reply has been "I would vote across the aisle if the other party switched their entire platform to match my party."
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Old 09-15-08, 08:55 AM
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Nothing.
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Old 09-15-08, 09:09 AM
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I'm Libertarian, but voted for Kerry in 2004. I hadn't planned on it, but as I walked into the polling center, this douchebag Republican volunteer walked up to me and asked for a couple minutes to explain why I absolutely had to vote for Bush. As I moved around him, he tried to take my arm and pull me aside. At that point I told him that if he touched me again, I'd be pressing charges. I then explained that I had planned to vote third party, but I'd be voting for Kerry, just to nullify his vote. So in 2004, it took someone being an aggressive asshole for me to vote across the aisle.

For the present, one of the two main candidates would have to do something to convince me that the country would be in substantially worse condition if he were to win for me to vote for the other one. I doubt that will happen in the next month and a half, but anything's possible.
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Old 09-15-08, 09:11 AM
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More like, "what would it take for you to vote at all?". When I did vote regularly, it was about 2/3rds Rep to 1/3rd Dem.
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Old 09-15-08, 09:12 AM
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Quite a bit.
1) Fiscal responsibility and actually attempt to make the f'ovt smaller. Republican presidents seem to love running up enormous deficits.
2) An end to supply side economics
2) Understand increased gun control doesn't mean outright gun banning.
3) Understand individual rights applies to everyone, including gays
4) Absolute separation of church and state.
5) Understand pro-choice does not mean pro-death, and does not mean an abortion will automatically occur. It means giving a woman an "option" in light of serious consequences that may result from unintended pregnancy. The lack thereof means she has no option whatsoever.

Last edited by wabio; 09-15-08 at 09:25 AM.
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Old 09-15-08, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Kerborus View Post
Did you know most democrats 'vote with Bush' about 75% of the time? I'm always confused about that line. Does Bush vote somewhere?
Congressional Quarterly keeps a tab of roll call votes on bills where the president has a stated position. So, for example, in 2006 we see this:

Code:
           name   party   state   support  
         Shelby       R      AL        86  
       Sessions       R      AL        91  
        Stevens       R      AK        93  
      Murkowski       R      AK        89  
         McCain       R      AZ        89  
            Kyl       R      AZ        90  
        Lincoln       D      AR        59  
          Pryor       D      AR        64  
      Feinstein       D      CA        54  
          Boxer       D      CA        47  
         Allard       R      CO        91  
        Salazar       D      CO        58  
           Dodd       D      CT        49  
      Lieberman       D      CT        62  
          Biden       D      DE        55  
         Carper       D      DE        64  
         Nelson       D      FL        60  
       Martinez       R      FL        92  
      Chambliss       R      GA        93  
        Isakson       R      GA        93  
         Inouye       D      HI        56  
          Akaka       D      HI        48  
          Craig       R      ID        94  
          Crapo       R      ID        88  
         Durbin       D      IL        47  
          Obama       D      IL        49  
          Lugar       R      IN        91  
           Bayh       D      IN        58  
       Grassley       R      IA        87  
         Harkin       D      IA        46  
      Brownback       R      KS        92  
        Roberts       R      KS        88  
      McConnell       R      KY        91  
        Bunning       R      KY        90  
       Landrieu       D      LA        71  
         Vitter       R      LA        87  
          Snowe       r      ME        75  
        Collins       R      ME        79  
       Sarbanes       D      MD        54  
       Mikulski       D      MD        49  
        Kennedy       D      MA        48  
          Kerry       D      MA        51  
          Levin       D      MI        56  
       Stabenow       D      MI        51  
         Dayton       D      MN        48  
        Coleman       R      MN        88  
        Cochran       R      MS        89  
           Lott       R      MS        88  
           Bond       R      MO        89  
         Talent       R      MO        82  
         Baucus       D      MT        61  
          Burns       R      MT        85  
          Hagel       R      NE        96  
         Nelson       D      NE        76  
           Reid       D      NV        57  
         Ensign       R      NV        90  
          Gregg       R      NH        93  
         Sununu       R      NH        90  
     Lautenberg       D      NJ        46  
       Menendez       D      NJ        50  
       Domenici       R      NM        91  
       Bingaman       D      NM        51  
        Schumer       D      NY        52  
        Clinton       D      NY        50  
           Dole       R      NC        90  
           Burr       R      NC        88  
         Conrad       D      ND        52  
         Dorgan       D      ND        46  
         DeWine       R      OH        86  
      Voinovich       R      OH        89  
         Inhofe       R      OK        88  
         Coburn       R      OK        88  
          Wyden       D      OR        51  
          Smith       R      OR        83  
        Specter       R      PA        76  
       Santorum       R      PA        86  
           Reed       D      RI        53  
         Chafee       R      RI        71  
         Graham       R      SC        91  
         DeMint       R      SC        90  
        Johnson       D      SD        57  
          Thune       R      SD        87  
          Frist       R      TN        93  
      Alexander       R      TN        93  
      Hutchison       R      TX        84  
         Cornyn       R      TX        91  
          Hatch       R      UT        88  
        Bennett       R      UT        90  
          Leahy       D      VT        46  
       Jeffords       D      VT        49  
         Warner       R      VA        91  
          Allen       R      VA        91  
         Murray       D      WA        59  
       Cantwell       D      WA        54  
           Byrd       D      WV        49  
    Rockefeller       D      WV        55  
           Kohl       D      WI        57  
       Feingold       D      WI        47  
         Thomas       R      WY        91  
           Enzi       R      WY        91
On average, Democratic Senators voted with the president 54% of the time, while their Republican counterparts did so 89% of the time. So, your 75% number is a little exaggerated I would think.
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Old 09-15-08, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by CreamyGoodness View Post
You make over $250,000 a year. Good job.
i don't. but i do have capital gains
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Old 09-15-08, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post
Many innocent, defenseless human lives of all ages are lost in any war whether you justify it or not.
True. I'm just trying to balance why many conservatives put more value on the unborn life as compared to those who have been born. Esp. when all murder is considered a sin.

Just like I have trouble rationalizing the justification people make for their candidates lying when it is a generally agreed tenet of Christianity that all sins are equal in the eyes of G*d.
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Old 09-15-08, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
For Democrats to take a rational, humane stance on abortion.

If someone doesn't display the common sense to grasp the most obvious, basic issues of protecting the most defenseless human life...or worse, is unwilling to summon the courage & compassion to face the issue...that is a deal-breaker so far as trusting their judgment on other issues of consequence.
Question. During what stage of fetal development do you oppose abortion?

So are you saying if someone does not choose to confront the abortion issue, they are incapable of overseeing other issues such as foreign and domestic policy, fiscal responsibility, military intervention, or diplomacy?
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Old 09-15-08, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
I love how every reply has been "I would vote across the aisle if the other party switched their entire platform to match my party."
That's what it boils down to.
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Old 09-15-08, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Rockmjd23 View Post
More like, "what would it take for you to vote at all?".

I'll be going to the polls in November, but I am pretty sure that I will be abstaining the Presidential vote like I did in '04. None of these guys, 3rd parties included, have earned my vote.
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Old 09-15-08, 09:29 AM
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It took the dems nominating an empty shell like Obama for me to vote Republican for the first time in any race ever.
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Old 09-15-08, 09:34 AM
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So here's a follow-up question:

For those that really can't or won't cross the aisle, and do plan on voting, do you plan on voting FOR your candidate or AGAINST the opposing candidate?

Just for argument's sake, they are not the same. There is a difference in purpose.
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Old 09-15-08, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by TheAllPurposeNothing View Post
So here's a follow-up question:

For those that really can't or won't cross the aisle, and do plan on voting, do you plan on voting FOR your candidate or AGAINST the opposing candidate?

Just for argument's sake, they are not the same. There is a difference in purpose.

Both. I could tolerate McCain, I'm just afraid he's going to be Bush III. Palin on the other hand.......no way!
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Old 09-15-08, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
I love how every reply has been "I would vote across the aisle if the other party switched their entire platform to match my party."
That about sums it up for me. Why vote for anyone who doesn't agree with me on the positions I think are important. It would be kind of like saying, "I'd have gay sex if he looked a little more like a woman."

Nothing could make me vote for a Democrat as they currently are (Talk to me again when the Kennedy Democrats come back), but I could be convinced very easily to vote for a third party or just sit the whole thing out (like I almost did again this year).
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