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Who will be the next VP of the US, Biden or Palin? part III

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Who will be the next VP of the US, Biden or Palin? part III

Old 08-29-08, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by FunkDaddy J View Post
No, you're reading into this what you want to hear.
It's definitely not what I wanted to hear, but that's how I read it.
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Old 08-29-08, 10:13 PM
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I really hope the liberals keep making the mistake of underestimating Palin.

Out of the four people running for one of the top offices she's the ONLY one with executive experience.

She has been a huge maverick, taking on REPUBLICAN corruption in Alaska - and winning! She has gotten several reforms passed in Alaska, and has an 80% approval rating in the state.

As Governor she has had trade meetings with delegations from both Canada AND Russia (so much for being completly inexperienced with foreign policy).

She is bright, articulate, driven, good looking - she's got it all.

And now Joe Biden's put in a really bad position. If he starts talking down to her in their debate it will look like he looks down on women in general. His natual tendencies to be arrogant and condescending will hurt him more than ever, and if he holds back she'll clean his clock!

I heard a local radio host in L.A. talk about her on the way home tonight - he went to college with her, and said that while the other kids were out partying she was studying. When the other kids wanted to leave class she'd raise her hand to ask questions. She has always been driven and hard working, and, as mentioned before, very intelligent.

This may end up being the best possible selection McCain could have made. It certainly took Obama out of the news on a day when he was expected to dominte it.

Keep on underestimating Palin. She's gonna show you up.
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Old 08-29-08, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by FunkDaddy J View Post
Obama: "I never called for an invasion of Pakistan." And if there were "actionable intelligence reports" showing Al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden in Pakistan, U.S. troops as a last resort should enter and try to capture terrorists. That would happen, he added, only if "the Pakistani government was unable or unwilling" to go after the terrorists."
Actually what he said originally was:

I understand that President Musharraf has his own challenges. But let me make this clear. There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again. It was a terrible mistake to fail to act when we had a chance to take out an al Qaeda leadership meeting in 2005. If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won’t act, we will.

So no, he did not call for an 'invasion'. Instead he called for an impossible action that most certainly would upset the fragile balance of Pakistan. Which would be fine, as long as he would have the courage to see such action through to its logical end. (An invasion).
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Old 08-29-08, 10:21 PM
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Is B5Erik the first worshiper at the church of Palin on this board (or is it only OK to use like terms for Obama supporters?)
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Old 08-29-08, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
She is bright, articulate, driven, good looking - she's got it all.
Joe Biden: "You forgot clean."
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Old 08-29-08, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by X View Post
How about the recognition of the need for domestic self-sufficiency in oil so we don't have to deploy people like her son to Iraq? She's quite cognizant that's the reason he's going to be deployed over there.
The Iraq war is about oil? Is that the new talking point?
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Old 08-29-08, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
Is it just me, or does the Democratic position "It's irresponsible to vote for a woman who was recently a mayor of a small town a heartbeat away from the presidency, so vote for a man who was recently a community organizer as president instead" kind of give off sideshow bob/mayor quimby vibe?

Mayor Quimby supports revolving door prisons. Mayor Quimby even released Sideshow Bob -- a man twice convicted of attempted murder. Can you trust a man like Mayor Quimby? Vote Sideshow Bob for mayor.
The Obama campaign was caught flat-footed -- it's obvious that they weren't expecting Palin to get the nod and had to scramble to find talking-points against her. Compare to McCain, who had his Biden ads playing within hours of the announcement -- and he probably had an arsenal of ads for every conceivable VP pick Obama could've made.

I think the story that's being overlooked here is how this undermines the conventional wisdom that the McCain campaign is organized chaos, while Obama has a powerful, well-oiled machine. Not only was McCain better prepared for his opponent's choice, but he did a better job of keeping a lid on his own -- an hour before the announcement, people were still saying Palin was in Alaska -- and managed to generate more buzz out of it than Obama did with Biden -- in less than 12 hours, Palin's on her second thread here, while the Biden discussion barely merited a second page. The disparity in how well the veep announcements were handled is amazing.


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Old 08-29-08, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
The Iraq war is about oil? Is that the new talking point?
Oh, sorry. I forgot we care so much about the Middle East because of its culture and positive contributions to world stability and productivity.

Do you have any idea why Russia is able to do what it just did in Georgia?
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Old 08-29-08, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by X View Post
Oh, sorry. I forgot we care so much about the Middle East because of its culture and contributions to world stability and productivity.
You laugh.

What about ushering in a new era of democracy in the Middle East, like we were promised? Whatever happened to that one?
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Old 08-29-08, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Lord Rick View Post
You laugh.

What about ushering in a new era of democracy in the Middle East, like we were promised? Whatever happened to that one?
That's the only way to handle our dependence on oil if we're unwilling to use our own resources. Dealing with moderate democracies wouldn't take much of the money we send over there and turn it into something that's used against us.

Ultimately the Middle East will have to become democratic. If we don't need them for oil we can wait longer for it to occur.
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Old 08-29-08, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by hahn View Post
I think it was a ridiculous choice and obviously made to gain female votes.
If it was just that, he could've gone with Kay Baily Hutchinson. Instead he went with an almost complete unknown. Why? Because in addition to appealing to women and PUMAs, she's going to be attractive to Reagan Democrats and union workers -- running mates might not make a lot of difference, but if she can tip the balance by 1-2% in a few key states, it might be enough for McCain to win.

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Old 08-29-08, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by starman9000 View Post
Is B5Erik the first worshiper at the church of Palin on this board (or is it only OK to use like terms for Obama supporters?)
I'm just saying that what I'm hearing from people who have actually known her is very positive. The people on the left are already bashing her, but they haven't paid attention to what she's actually accomplished (newsflash - she's already accomplished more as Governor in a year and a half than Obama has accomplished in 4 years in the Senate).

Underestimating her at this point is a big mistake. One I'd just love for the Obama campaign people to make.
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Old 08-29-08, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
Can you point me to any stances Palin has taken on any foreign policy matters? She also seems pretty uninterested in national domestic issues.
Originally Posted by Sarah Palin
I've been so focused on state government, I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq.
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Old 08-29-08, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
If it was just that, he could've gone with Kay Baily Hutchinson. Instead he went with an almost complete unknown. Why? Because in addition to appealing to women and PUMAs, she's going to be attractive to Reagan Democrats and union workers -- running mates might not make a lot of difference, but if she can tip the balance by 1-2% in a few key states, it might be enough for McCain to win.
She and her husband are both union members. She signed domestic partner benefits into law for the first time in Alaska. She's a conservative, but has some liberal streaks that will appeal to some Democrat voters (including Pennsylvania & Ohio blue collar union workers).
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Old 08-29-08, 10:59 PM
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"domestic self-sufficiency"

Is this possible? I'm assuming he's talking about oil.
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Old 08-29-08, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Vandelay_Inds View Post
The Obama circus reminds me of debates between those people who have TV shows where they attempt to convince audience members of their ability to communicate with their dead relatives by making great claims of sincerity and empathy, and frustrated scientists whose reasoned arguments attempting to uncover such charlatanry prove futile against the spiritist's charisma and his hold over ignorant people's dearest hopes.

If Obama were taking an exam at a reputable economics faculty, he'd fail miserably. In these matters, his judgment is as intelligent and wise as an astrologer's or a palm reader's. It really bothers me that he and those behind him have been able to convince so many that he is anything other than a very ordinary person.
Come on that is silly willy talk, ordinary people don't become presidential nominees. Your logic is lame. Obama would do what all good people do when they don't know something. They get people that know how to do it to do it for them. Bush got rid of everyone that disagreed with his point of view and surrounded himself with yes men. They probably had the best interests of country but without all points of view they were bound to fail. Obama might do the same thing but so far it doesn't look like it.

Great men like Hitler, Martin Luther King, JFK etc etc didn't know how to do a lot of things. They moved mountains by using their words to energize the people. The inspire people to sacrifice themselves for the greater good. And they take into account all points of view.

A good scientist or a good economist probably could never be a good leader because they wouldn't have the skills needed to move people to do anything.
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Old 08-29-08, 10:59 PM
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If something were to happen to McCain, how do you think she would perform as President?
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Old 08-29-08, 11:03 PM
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In a 2006 gubernatorial debate, the soon-to-be governor of Alaska said of evolution and creation education, "Teach both. You know, don't be afraid of education. Healthy debate is so important, and it's so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both."

Asked by the Anchorage Daily News whether she believed in evolution, Palin declined to answer, but said that "I don't think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class."

http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2...s-vp-want.html
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Old 08-29-08, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Baron Of Hell View Post
Great men like Hitler
In before people ignore the rest of your well-reasoned and well-stated post in order to pounce on these 4 words.
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Old 08-29-08, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by vhgong View Post
If something were to happen to McCain, how do you think she would perform as President?
Well, when was the last time a VP had to take over for the President? It's been a while.

But I think she'd do just as well as Obama, maybe better. She has executive experience (which he doesn't), she knows how to get things done from the top (as a leader, rather than just a member of a large group), and she'd have at least a year or three experience as VP under her belt by the time she took over (McCain's not dropping dead any time soon, and I seriously doubt that he'll have any trouble finishing out his term in office).

And, again, she's already negotiated with representatives of both Canada and Russia (which border her state), so she has SOME experience in foreign relations/diplomacy.
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Old 08-29-08, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by vhgong View Post
If something were to happen to McCain, how do you think she would perform as President?
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Old 08-29-08, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
And at least that is the right attitude for the opposition to have. But Bush was elected twice with the most evil person on the planet as his VP choice, so I don't know that I would bet against those "stupid, shallow, Americans."

Obama should have had it all wrapped up long ago. McCain should have had no chance from the begining. I gave him no chance. The fact that the polls are where they are suggests that the Dems have a weak candidate, imo.
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Old 08-29-08, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
Well, when was the last time a VP had to take over for the President?
During the 10:35 showing of Disaster Movie.
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Old 08-29-08, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
Well, when was the last time a VP had to take over for the President? It's been a while.

But I think she'd do just as well as Obama, maybe better. She has executive experience (which he doesn't), she knows how to get things done from the top (as a leader, rather than just a member of a large group), and she'd have at least a year or three experience as VP under her belt by the time she took over (McCain's not dropping dead any time soon, and I seriously doubt that he'll have any trouble finishing out his term in office).

And, again, she's already negotiated with representatives of both Canada and Russia (which border her state), so she has SOME experience in foreign relations/diplomacy.
But guess what? 18 million people voted for Barack Obama. 18 million people said he was ready. No one voted for Governor Palin to be a heartbeat away.
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Old 08-29-08, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
If it was just that, he could've gone with Kay Baily Hutchinson. Instead he went with an almost complete unknown. Why? Because in addition to appealing to women and PUMAs, she's going to be attractive to Reagan Democrats and union workers -- running mates might not make a lot of difference, but if she can tip the balance by 1-2% in a few key states, it might be enough for McCain to win.

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I'm not saying that it was just that. But if it were the exact same person, but Palin was a man, would he have been picked for his qualifications? I can't even believe anyone here would deny that the single biggest reason she was picked was for her gender. Her appeal to Reagan democrats and union workers is merely a thin layer of icing on top of the cake that is her sex. You know what I'm saying.

Last edited by hahn; 08-29-08 at 11:23 PM.
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