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US slips down development index

Old 07-17-08, 10:00 AM
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US slips down development index

Just watched M. Moore's Sicko the other day. I thought it was a bit exessive.

But after reading that I am not too sure now....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7511426.stm

US slips down development index

Americans live shorter lives than citizens of almost every other developed nation, according to a report from several US charities.

The report found that the US ranked 42nd in the world for life expectancy despite spending more on health care per person than any other country.

Last edited by O=&=O; 07-17-08 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 07-17-08, 10:02 AM
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Single payer, universal healthcare is the obvious answer. Medicare for all. We have absolutely no need for insurance companies tacking on middleman expenses.
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Old 07-17-08, 10:14 AM
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we're also the fattest country, aren't we?
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Old 07-17-08, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Venusian
we're also the fattest country, aren't we?
Probably. And that would seem to correlate.
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Old 07-17-08, 10:24 AM
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I wonder how much, if any, of it is related to FDA regulations. I recently was working on a story about the artificial heart for my job and was surprised at how it seems to be much easier to get new procedures & devices approved in Europe and Asia than it is here. It's definitely not something I'd given much consideration before.
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Old 07-17-08, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Venusian
we're also the fattest country, aren't we?
It could be that our life expectancy is lower due to the fact that we eat more crap than other countries. As a country, we eat a lot of processed food with little nutritional value.
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Old 07-17-08, 10:45 AM
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Those stats are misleading because of the diffrences the way stillbirths are counted and reported in the US compared to other countries.

http://www.kaisernetwork.org/daily_r...fm?DR_ID=46838
Sam Harper, an epidemiologist at McGill University, said, "It's not as simple as saying we don't have national health insurance. It's not that easy." Paul Terry, an assistant professor of epidemiology at Emory University, said, "The U.S. has the resources that allow people to get fat and lazy," adding, "We have the luxury of choosing a bad lifestyle as opposed to having one imposed on us by hard times" (AP/Arizona Daily Star, 8/12).

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Old 07-17-08, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by orangecrush18
It could be that our life expectancy is lower due to the fact that we eat more crap than other countries. As a country, we eat a lot of processed food with little nutritional value.
Isn't our infant mortality also incorporated into the average? And don't we have a high infant mortality for reasons quite different than not having good health care?

I believe murder among young minorities also lowers our average longevity. More homogeneous populations don't have much of that issue.
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Old 07-17-08, 10:49 AM
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once the govt is paying for healthcare, they'll have a compelling state interest to tell us how much we can weigh. w00t!
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Old 07-17-08, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by orangecrush18
It could be that our life expectancy is lower due to the fact that we eat more crap than other countries. As a country, we eat a lot of processed food with little nutritional value.
True. It's due in part to the consumerist mentality constructed in the US over the last 100 years. Most of the shit in the middle of the grocery store is processed crap. You can do most of your shopping around the edges and eat healthier.
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Old 07-17-08, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Venusian
once the govt is paying for healthcare, they'll have a compelling state interest to tell us how much we can weigh. w00t!
What's the difference between that and the insurance companies doing the same? (Except one is doing it for profit?)
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Old 07-17-08, 11:03 AM
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We're not talking about huge differences between these countries, you know. I've done a quick graph showing life expectancy at birth for every country with more than one million in population and GDP per capita of $20,000 or greater:



I'm willing to bet that, once controlling for prosperity, the major factors affecting this are murder rates, levels of urbanization (if you live in a city, medical care is more accessible) and maybe a couple of other factors. I doubt universal health care is one of them, to be honest.
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Old 07-17-08, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
I doubt universal health care is one of them, to be honest.
I just felt the need to interject since I have become a strong proponent of it over the past few months.
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Old 07-17-08, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
Suck it, Denmark!
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Old 07-17-08, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
We're not talking about huge differences between these countries, you know. I've done a quick graph showing life expectancy at birth for every country with more than one million in population and GDP per capita of $20,000 or greater:



I'm willing to bet that, once controlling for prosperity, the major factors affecting this are murder rates, levels of urbanization (if you live in a city, medical care is more accessible) and maybe a couple of other factors. I doubt universal health care is one of them, to be honest.
How do you explain Canada, by the way? Do any of those countries NOT have universal health care?
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Old 07-17-08, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by CRM114
What's the difference between that and the insurance companies doing the same? (Except one is doing it for profit?)
my insurance company hasn't told me how much i can weigh. and they don't have the power to enforce it either
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Old 07-17-08, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by maxfisher
I wonder how much, if any, of it is related to FDA regulations. I recently was working on a story about the artificial heart for my job and was surprised at how it seems to be much easier to get new procedures & devices approved in Europe and Asia than it is here. It's definitely not something I'd given much consideration before.

10-15 years ago they gave the FDA the power to fast track drugs, devices, etc. After Vioxx the same people who complained in the 1990's complained again that the FDA was doing a poor job and not taking enough time to ensure safety.
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Old 07-17-08, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by JasonF
Suck it, Denmark!
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Old 07-17-08, 11:54 AM
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"The numbers are in. Compared to the U.S., we (Canadians) work less, live longer, enjoy better health and have more sex. And get this: now we're wealthier too.

http://www.macleans.ca/canada/nation...25_50113_50113

Take that ya Yanks!

... ...
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Old 07-17-08, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by X
Isn't our infant mortality also incorporated into the average? And don't we have a high infant mortality for reasons quite different than not having good health care?

I believe murder among young minorities also lowers our average longevity. More homogeneous populations don't have much of that issue.
That would make sense. I do know that we have one of the highest infant mortality rates of all developed nations. My wife would say that is due to the high rate of medical interventions and c-sections. I don't know for sure.
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Old 07-17-08, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by orangecrush18
That would make sense. I do know that we have one of the highest infant mortality rates of all developed nations. My wife would say that is due to the high rate of medical interventions and c-sections. I don't know for sure.

This was addressed in earlier health care threads. The argument that the US has a higher infant mortality rate (which impacts on life expectancy) because it tries to save more babies only portrays one side of the issue. The immediate question that should come to mind is why is there a need to "save" so many babies. Most difficult births can be prevented by education, prevention and visits to the doctor during the 1st trimester. Studies have shown that in the US, young underprivileged mothers (especially from black and hispanic minorities) are especially affected by lack of health care during early pregnancy. IHMO, this issue is certainly related to health care and cannot be simplistically reduced to "trying to save more babies".
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Old 07-17-08, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Venusian
once the govt is paying for healthcare, they'll have a compelling state interest to tell us how much we can weigh. w00t!

Government is already starting to move in that direction.

And the difference between a private requirement and a government law/regulation is quite obvious, as you alluded to.
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Old 07-17-08, 12:31 PM
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There'll be nationalized air travel before there's universal health care in the states.

Never mind all the other things that are run by the government. Just not health care.
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Old 07-17-08, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by CRM114
How do you explain Canada, by the way?
Cold weather is good for people's health?
Originally Posted by CRM114
Do any of those countries NOT have universal health care?
Singapore doesn't, and it looks like Australia and new Zealand have not-quite-but-almost universal health care. The rest do. And, among the countries listed in the graph, there doesn't seem to be a correlation between life expectancy and anything I can find.

Maybe rice consumption per capita.
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Old 07-17-08, 12:36 PM
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I think Singapore's approach to health care is excellent.
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