Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > General Discussions > Other Talk > Religion, Politics and World Events
Reload this Page >

Replacement windows cost school $6,300 each (at a Washington D.C. public school)

Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

Replacement windows cost school $6,300 each (at a Washington D.C. public school)

Old 06-30-08, 03:35 PM
  #1  
Political Exile
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 15,988
Replacement windows cost school $6,300 each (at a Washington D.C. public school)

I've never heard of any private body spending this much money per window for windows of this size and type.

No wonder why the D.C. public schools are in such trouble.


http://www.examiner.com/a-1455777~Re..._300_each.html

Replacement windows cost school $6,300 each

June 24, 2008

WASHINGTON -

Nearly 150 windows installed last year in Northwest’s Shepherd Elementary School will be replaced this summer at a cost of roughly $6,300 each, and parents are hopeful the District’s new contractor will be an improvement over the last “catastrophe.”

Roughly 140 rotting wooden windows at Shepherd, located on 14th Street just north of Walter Reed Army Medical Center, were replaced in 2007 at a cost of $4,042 per window under a contract awarded by the D.C. Public Schools to the Timonium-based Orlando J. Sales Painting Co.



In December, Allen Lew, director of the Office of Public Education Facilities Modernization, terminated the deal for “substandard” work. It was the third time since Lew took over school renovations that he’d fired a contractor.

“The first contractor botched the job,” said Lannette Woodruff, mother of a Shepherd third-grader. “They were not installed right. It was a catastrophe.”

Many of the windows installed by OJS were “too small for their respective masonry openings” as a result of the company mis-measuring, according to a May 5 letter from Lew to Orlando J. Sales, president of the company. Gaps between the windows and the walls were filled with wood frames.

Lew deducted $431,769 from the balance of the OJS contract, a matter that is now in litigation.

He recently awarded a $1.37 million contract to the Gilford/United Association to install 215 new windows in two buildings on the campus. The price tag: Roughly $6,372 each, and the work must be done by Aug. 15.

“I do have optimism this time,” said Lovell Saunders, whose son will enter second grade in the fall. “I think Lew and his staff understand the issue now. They came in themselves and saw the shoddy work the last contractor did.”

Tony Robinson, Lew’s spokesman, said the new windows are of higher quality and require a larger outlay up front in order to reap the benefits down the road.

“If looking for the best value means paying a little more for a product that’s going to last 50 to 80 years, then that’s the product that will be chosen,” he said.

D.C.’s contracting community, Robinson said, “really needs to step up its game when it’s working on D.C. Public School projects.” By removing contractors, he said, Lew has “sent a message.”

The phone line at OJS headquarters was busy all day Monday.
grundle is offline  
Old 06-30-08, 03:45 PM
  #2  
Moderator
 
Groucho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 70,538
I've never tried to replace windows of that nature, so I have no idea what it's supposed to cost. But between this, and the botched contractor job from last year, looks like they're in the hole for ~$10,000 each.
Groucho is offline  
Old 06-30-08, 03:48 PM
  #3  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Home again, Big D
Posts: 27,798
geez...that is a lot for the window. Could it be the way they are installed they need to remove brick or drywall to get it done?
Sdallnct is offline  
Old 06-30-08, 04:02 PM
  #4  
Political Exile
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 15,988
Originally Posted by Sdallnct
geez...that is a lot for the window. Could it be the way they are installed they need to remove brick or drywall to get it done?

That might be part of it. But the government incompetence and corruption are probably the main reason.
grundle is offline  
Old 06-30-08, 04:03 PM
  #5  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 6,270
I just had 13 new windows put in my house for $2k less than one of their windows. Granted, theirs look a little larger than mine, but still...
maxfisher is offline  
Old 06-30-08, 04:24 PM
  #6  
DVD Talk God
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Directionally Challenged (for DirecTV)
Posts: 122,482
Maybe they're bullet-proof.
Red Dog is offline  
Old 06-30-08, 04:25 PM
  #7  
Moderator
 
Groucho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 70,538
Originally Posted by Red Dog
Maybe they're bullet-proof.
I'm pretty sure that handgun ban would make this unnecessary.
Groucho is offline  
Old 06-30-08, 04:26 PM
  #8  
DVD Talk God
 
kvrdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 86,200
It would be nice to see the bidding process. Too much unknown in this, but that sounds like a lot.
kvrdave is offline  
Old 06-30-08, 04:33 PM
  #9  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Lower Gum Curve
Posts: 18,882
Originally Posted by Sdallnct
geez...that is a lot for the window. Could it be the way they are installed they need to remove brick or drywall to get it done?
no no no, it has to be some sort of government boondoggle.
Jason is offline  
Old 06-30-08, 06:16 PM
  #10  
Political Exile
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 15,988
Originally Posted by maxfisher
I just had 13 new windows put in my house for $2k less than one of their windows. Granted, theirs look a little larger than mine, but still...

Yep - that's a great point.
grundle is offline  
Old 06-30-08, 06:18 PM
  #11  
Political Exile
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 15,988
Originally Posted by Red Dog
Maybe they're bullet-proof.
That would make sense - the pedestrians who walk by the school need to be protected.
grundle is offline  
Old 06-30-08, 06:22 PM
  #12  
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,982
Why not go one of those places that are low priced?
Like why don't they buy their supplies from Wal-Mart instead of paying sky high prices from someplace. I'll tell you why, because the person getting the contract is a buddy of somebody.
wm lopez is offline  
Old 06-30-08, 09:15 PM
  #13  
Political Exile
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 15,988
Originally Posted by wm lopez
Why not go one of those places that are low priced?
Like why don't they buy their supplies from Wal-Mart instead of paying sky high prices from someplace. I'll tell you why, because the person getting the contract is a buddy of somebody.
Exactly.
grundle is offline  
Old 06-30-08, 10:33 PM
  #14  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: in da cloud
Posts: 26,196
Originally Posted by wm lopez
Why not go one of those places that are low priced?
Like why don't they buy their supplies from Wal-Mart instead of paying sky high prices from someplace. I'll tell you why, because the person getting the contract is a buddy of somebody.
because wal mart doesn't sell windows in that size and they must be custom made, transportation costs a lot more money and the $6300 includes labor as well
al_bundy is offline  
Old 07-01-08, 05:11 AM
  #15  
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,982
Then goto here for deals www.4feldco.com .
wm lopez is offline  
Old 07-01-08, 05:29 AM
  #16  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Dr Mabuse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: 75 clicks above the Do Lung bridge...
Posts: 18,950
the whole 'more money for education' thing is a joke...

it has become an industry unto itself... completely self serving and corrupt...
Dr Mabuse is offline  
Old 07-01-08, 06:29 AM
  #17  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 6,270
Originally Posted by al_bundy
because wal mart doesn't sell windows in that size and they must be custom made, transportation costs a lot more money and the $6300 includes labor as well
The windows I bought for my house were custom made and cost around $300 each, including installation. From the pics, theirs look what, about 3' x 6'? Most of mine were around 28" x 48". I can see theirs being pricier, but not by a factor of 20. There's really no defending the school system/gov't on this, as it's pretty typical behavior. These kinds of projects always seem to cost the gov't substantially more than a private individual would pay.
maxfisher is offline  
Old 07-01-08, 06:57 AM
  #18  
Political Exile
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 15,988
Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse
the whole 'more money for education' thing is a joke...

it has become an industry unto itself... completely self serving and corrupt...


Yes.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educati..._united_states

Education in the United States

Funding for K-12 schools

Many people have claimed that U.S. public schools are underfunded, but this claim is debatable. According to a 2005 report from the OECD, the United States is tied for first place with Switzerland when it comes to annual spending per student on its public schools, with each of those two countries spending more than $11,000 (in U.S. currency). [15] Despite this high level of funding, U.S. public schools lag behind the schools of other rich countries in the areas of reading, math, and science. [16] Achievement and funding can vary widely between districts, so the relationship between funding and achievement is complex.[49] As noted above, while arguments can be made whether overall funding is adequate, the amount actually reaching the classroom level is not adequate to fully fund classroom activities.[50]

According to a 2007 article in The Washington Post, the Washington D.C. public school district spends $12,979 per student per year. This is the third highest level of funding per student out of the 100 biggest school districts in the U.S. Despite this high level of funding, the school district provides outcomes that are lower than the national average. In reading and math, the district's students score the lowest among 11 major school districts - even when poor children are compared only with other poor children. 33% of poor fourth graders in the U.S. lack basic skills in math, but in Washington D.C., it's 62%. [17]

According to a 2006 study by the Goldwater Institute, Arizona's public schools spend 50% more per student than Arizona's private schools. The study also says that while teachers constitute 72% of the employees at private schools, they make up less than half of the staff at public schools. According to the study, if Arizona's public schools wanted to be like private schools, they would have to hire approximately 25,000 more teachers, and eliminate 21,210 administration employees. The study also said that public school teachers are paid about 50% more than private school teachers. [18]

In 1985 in Kansas City, Missouri, a judge ordered the school district to raise taxes and spend more money on public education. Spending was increased so much, that the school district was spending more money per student than any of the country's other 280 largest school districts. Although this very high level of spending continued for more than a decade, there was no improvement in the school district's academic performance. [19] [20]

According to a 1999 article by William J. Bennett, former U.S. Secretary of Education, increased levels of spending on public education have not made the schools better. Among many other things, the article cites the following statisitcs: [21]

* Between 1960 and 1995, U.S. public school spending per student, adjusted for inflation, increased by 212%.

* In 1994, less than half of all U.S. public school employees were teachers.

* Out of 21 industrialized countries, U.S. 12th graders ranked 19th in math, 16th in science, and last in advanced physics.
grundle is offline  
Old 07-01-08, 07:03 AM
  #19  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
The Bus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 54,814
Originally Posted by Red Dog
Maybe they're bullet-proof.
Originally Posted by grundle
That would make sense - the pedestrians who walk by the school need to be protected.


<hr>

max, where did you get your windows from? I had two made and they cost about $3000. Mind you, the windows are really nice (compared to others I've seen or the ones I've got in my house already) and they had to actually cut a hole in the outside wall to put them in, but it was way above $300.
The Bus is offline  
Old 07-01-08, 07:27 AM
  #20  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
DVD Polizei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 51,946
Originally Posted by wm lopez
Why not go one of those places that are low priced?
Like why don't they buy their supplies from Wal-Mart instead of paying sky high prices from someplace. I'll tell you why, because the person getting the contract is a buddy of somebody.
Yep. It's just like a mini-Iraq deal. At least the US is consistent with its corruption and using taxpayer money with no regard for consequences.
DVD Polizei is offline  
Old 07-01-08, 07:28 AM
  #21  
DVD Talk Reviewer
 
Randy Miller III's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 4,706
Maybe they're made out of gas?
Randy Miller III is offline  
Old 07-01-08, 07:28 AM
  #22  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 6,270
Originally Posted by The Bus


<hr>

max, where did you get your windows from? I had two made and they cost about $3000. Mind you, the windows are really nice (compared to others I've seen or the ones I've got in my house already) and they had to actually cut a hole in the outside wall to put them in, but it was way above $300.
After having a couple contractors come out, I went with this guy:
http://www.allamericanwindowman.com/

Horrible website & logo, but the windows are great and he did a solid job on the installation. I'd guess a big portion of your cost was cutting the holes in the wall. For mine, they just had to pop the old ones out and install the new ones in the same spots.
maxfisher is offline  
Old 07-01-08, 07:30 AM
  #23  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
The Bus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 54,814
I wanted to get more of them done in my house but I figured at $1500 a pop I was going to wait a while before doing it.

BTW, that site isn't bad, considering this is a window guy.
The Bus is offline  
Old 07-01-08, 08:49 AM
  #24  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Home again, Big D
Posts: 27,798
Originally Posted by maxfisher
The windows I bought for my house were custom made and cost around $300 each, including installation. From the pics, theirs look what, about 3' x 6'? Most of mine were around 28" x 48". I can see theirs being pricier, but not by a factor of 20. There's really no defending the school system/gov't on this, as it's pretty typical behavior. These kinds of projects always seem to cost the gov't substantially more than a private individual would pay.
Again, it depends on how the windows were installed. You can't just use your house as an example, as there are many houses in which windows cost a lot more to install. It does happen depending on the age of the building where you have to remove brick or drywall wall to install the windows. This can be way more then the cost of the widow itself. I have seen this many a time.

Tho since this is the 2nd replacement, I'm wondering even if they had to remove brick to take out the original windows why they would not have spent the money to put the new window in more conventionally? But mybe they never thought they would have to replace them again.
Sdallnct is offline  
Old 07-01-08, 08:57 AM
  #25  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Home again, Big D
Posts: 27,798
Originally Posted by grundle
Yes.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educati..._united_states

Education in the United States

Funding for K-12 schools

Many people have claimed that U.S. public schools are underfunded, but this claim is debatable. According to a 2005 report from the OECD, the United States is tied for first place with Switzerland when it comes to annual spending per student on its public schools, with each of those two countries spending more than $11,000 (in U.S. currency). [15] Despite this high level of funding, U.S. public schools lag behind the schools of other rich countries in the areas of reading, math, and science. [16] Achievement and funding can vary widely between districts, so the relationship between funding and achievement is complex.[49] As noted above, while arguments can be made whether overall funding is adequate, the amount actually reaching the classroom level is not adequate to fully fund classroom activities.[50]

According to a 2007 article in The Washington Post, the Washington D.C. public school district spends $12,979 per student per year. This is the third highest level of funding per student out of the 100 biggest school districts in the U.S. Despite this high level of funding, the school district provides outcomes that are lower than the national average. In reading and math, the district's students score the lowest among 11 major school districts - even when poor children are compared only with other poor children. 33% of poor fourth graders in the U.S. lack basic skills in math, but in Washington D.C., it's 62%. [17]

According to a 2006 study by the Goldwater Institute, Arizona's public schools spend 50% more per student than Arizona's private schools. The study also says that while teachers constitute 72% of the employees at private schools, they make up less than half of the staff at public schools. According to the study, if Arizona's public schools wanted to be like private schools, they would have to hire approximately 25,000 more teachers, and eliminate 21,210 administration employees. The study also said that public school teachers are paid about 50% more than private school teachers. [18]

In 1985 in Kansas City, Missouri, a judge ordered the school district to raise taxes and spend more money on public education. Spending was increased so much, that the school district was spending more money per student than any of the country's other 280 largest school districts. Although this very high level of spending continued for more than a decade, there was no improvement in the school district's academic performance. [19] [20]

According to a 1999 article by William J. Bennett, former U.S. Secretary of Education, increased levels of spending on public education have not made the schools better. Among many other things, the article cites the following statisitcs: [21]

* Between 1960 and 1995, U.S. public school spending per student, adjusted for inflation, increased by 212%.

* In 1994, less than half of all U.S. public school employees were teachers.

* Out of 21 industrialized countries, U.S. 12th graders ranked 19th in math, 16th in science, and last in advanced physics.
The point being missed is more then about money. If private school teachers get paid that much less then public how in the world do private shcools get teachers at all? How do they keep an retain a steady workforce when they cannot compete salary wise with public schools?

Of course some teachers just start out may only be able to get a private school job, but there are many other reasons. Smaller classrooms, not dealing with all the administration and satisfaction with the job. Feeling like you can make a real difference.
Sdallnct is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.