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Do you think Bush is using energy prices to get what he wants?

Old 06-22-08, 11:51 AM
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Do you think Bush is using energy prices to get what he wants?

I'm realizing that the Oil Republicans who've been fighting forever to drill offshore, in the Arctic, Alaska, etc. are starting to get more support.

Could this have been their plan all along? Drive prices so high that dumb America will get behind the idea of drilling in places we once thought should be left alone? I've even heard elected Democrats supporting the idea (maybe they own stock).

I was never against offshore drilling, but as I witness the level of corruption continue to rise with each administration I'm forced to consider this angle.

Here's a chart of oil prices. Has consumption really increased as dramatically?
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Old 06-22-08, 12:04 PM
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Yes, its all the fault of the Bush Administration and the evil Republican controlled Congress, as you can see by the sharp spike after 2007.

Whoops.
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Old 06-22-08, 12:41 PM
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Has consumption increased as dramatically? Of course not. But I don't think there is a 1:1 ratio between consumption and price.

I think you are on the right track, but with the wrong train (or something). I think this is far from Bush getting what <i>he</i> wants... there are others that stand to gain far, far more than the President. A victory for Bush in passing this won't really do all that much for him or his legacy. I think prices have been rising seemingly uncontrollably ( ) to test the waters (why not push things to the max when you are trying to maximize profits) as well as to drive a new direction such as this, which will ensure profits for years to come in a number of industries.

It may not be entirely sinister, however... localizing oil could be a win-win for the American citizen as well as American oil.
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Old 06-22-08, 01:10 PM
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I thought Bush said we were addicted to oil.

Now he wants to give us a little more.
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Old 06-22-08, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by parrotheads4
I'm realizing that the Oil Republicans who've been fighting forever to drill offshore, in the Arctic, Alaska, etc. are starting to get more support.

Could this have been their plan all along?
Pretty much, yes. I've said this in other threads.

Bush could have subsidized oil prices like they were in the past. But didn't. What is his only excuse and solution? He blames those who are against oil drilling, and says the only way to solve the problem is to drill.

He has any tool available to him and he blames anti-oil drillers. At the same time, he should know damn well the production levels to make any difference are mythical and any effect noticed would be several years into the future.

Not really a concrete plan to stop the immediate gas prices, now is it.

Last time I checked, America needs solutions NOW.

The Saudis have even said over this weekend's meeting they will be bringing production "significantly higher", but only around June 2009. That's an entire year from now, and oil could be over $250 per barrel.

You have to ask yourself. What exactly is the Bush Administration doing to curb oil prices.

Virtually NOTHING.

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Old 06-22-08, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by crazyronin
Yes, its all the fault of the Bush Administration and the evil Republican controlled Congress, as you can see by the sharp spike after 2007.

Whoops.
I think 2007 only proves the point. Bush's clock started ticking louder. He, and his interested friends began the big push to milk the cow while they still own it.
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Old 06-22-08, 03:20 PM
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Which is the accusation here...

1) Bush is using this period of high energy prices to try to open up drilling, a longtime goal of his

2) Bush is also somehow behind the high prices themselves and has been orchestrating higher prices in order to open up drilling once the prices got high enough

I feel like some here are suggesting #2?

The primary difference being Bush using new conditions to push a point vs. bringing about those conditions to push a point.
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Old 06-22-08, 03:29 PM
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Yeah, this has nothing to do with the exponential increase in the demand for oil in developing countries like China or India... [/sarcasm]
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Old 06-22-08, 04:29 PM
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I love how these criticisms of Bush fall into two groups - the first, that he's a bumbling fool who can barely tie his own shoelaces, and the second, that he's some sort of devious mastermind who can control things like the global petroleum market for his own nefarious ends.

President Bush: Inspector Clouseau, or Ernst Stavro Blofeld? Does anyone know for sure?

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Old 06-22-08, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
I love how these criticisms of Bush fall into two groups - the first, that he's a bumbling fool who can barely tie his own shoelaces, and the second, that he's some sort of devious mastermind who can control things like the global petroleum market for his own nefarious ends.

President Bush: Inspector Clouseau, or Ernst Stavro Blofeld? Does anyone know for sure?

Clearly, President Bush is an imbecile who needs help using the toilet and Vice President Cheney is an evil genius bent on world domination.

And Senator Obama is a Muslim Christian Marxist Elitist.

(In other words, don't waste too much time looking for consistency from people who have demonized their political opponents. The important thing to remember is that the other side is evil and must be destroyed. We can figure out the details later).
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Old 06-22-08, 04:55 PM
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Bush is not controlling the market. He's simply siding with oil companies and publicizing their statement about solving gas prices with US drilling.

The President's siding with oil companies is furthering the gas price hike. He had advisors telling him gas prices were going to continually go up because of "peculiar" market indicators. He simply chose to do nothing like oil companies probably commented to him, which would force the public to capitulate their opposing viewpoints to oil drilling in the US.

As usual, Bush is making a bad situation...worse. This man has talent, I tell ya.

While we're at it, let's arrest over 400 mortgage brokers. You know. To let the market know the Bush Administration won't stand for business that has been going on for several years with absolutely no Bush Administration interference.

P.S. There is no recession.

Last edited by DVD Polizei; 06-22-08 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 06-22-08, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
President Bush: Inspector Clouseau, or Ernst Stavro Blofeld? Does anyone know for sure?

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Old 06-22-08, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
I love how these criticisms of Bush fall into two groups - the first, that he's a bumbling fool who can barely tie his own shoelaces, and the second, that he's some sort of devious mastermind who can control things like the global petroleum market for his own nefarious ends.

President Bush: Inspector Clouseau, or Ernst Stavro Blofeld? Does anyone know for sure?


I think they reported that GWB has an IQ of 130. Not bad. But I don't think he has the brains. I do think his father, and his father's friends do have the brains. When I said Bush I meant the entire Bush Organization which includes Saudi Arabia.
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Old 06-22-08, 07:00 PM
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Which party has publicly stated in the past that they want to see much higher gas prices in order to curb consumtion?
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Old 06-22-08, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by DeputyDave
Which party has publicly stated in the past that they want to see much higher gas prices in order to curb consumtion?
The Third Reich?
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Old 06-22-08, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
I love how these criticisms of Bush fall into two groups - the first, that he's a bumbling fool who can barely tie his own shoelaces, and the second, that he's some sort of devious mastermind who can control things like the global petroleum market for his own nefarious ends.

Obviously he's bipolar.
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Old 06-22-08, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Thor Simpson
The Third Reich?
FAIL!
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Old 06-22-08, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by DeputyDave
Which party has publicly stated in the past that they want to see much higher gas prices in order to curb consumtion?
Excellent point. We find our demons where we want.
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Old 06-23-08, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by DeputyDave
Which party has publicly stated in the past that they want to see much higher gas prices in order to curb consumtion?
Wait, wait. They meant through taxes that the government gets. They don't want the Big Oil Companies pocketing all that money when they could piss it away on entitlements and pork. You just don't understand what they really mean.


(I suspect you do )
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Old 06-23-08, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by DeputyDave
Which party has publicly stated in the past that they want to see much higher gas prices in order to curb consumtion?

I believe that was Al Gore's party


Believe it or not (but google can show you the light) there are things that have happened globally that are not in the control of anyone in the United States that have HELPED cause the problems with oil that we are now seeing.

We have beaten the increase in demand side to death (China, etc) but what about the supply side?

Do you really think that Exxon-Mobil (and other oil companies) wanted to partner with Chavez's state run oil company and turn over a higher percent in royalties?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12085050/

Since taking office in 1999, his government has passed legislation requiring a majority government stake in all oil production projects, hiked taxes and royalties on oil companies, and begun to collect millions of dollars in what it claims are unpaid taxes from them.

On Thursday, congress approved new guidelines to turn 32 privately run oil fields over to state-controlled joint ventures.

Among the terms faced by companies like Royal Dutch Shell PLC and France’s Total SA: a minimum 60 percent stake for the state oil company Petroleos de Venezuela SA (PDVSA) in each field; PDVSA controlling the boards of the new joint ventures; and a jump in income tax rates from 34 percent to 50 percent and royalties from 16.6 percent to 33.3 percent. They will also see their potential drilling acreage slashed by almost two-thirds.

BP and Shell have had similar problems in Russia

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/mai...3/cnoil113.xml



When you total up all the independent worldwide oil issues that seem to have accumulated over the years and are coming to head now, it is obviously "conspiracy theory" to blame Bush or any one company in the US as the "ONE" being at fault for the problem of high oil prices, but hey, if it makes you feel better
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Old 06-24-08, 10:08 PM
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Well, it makes me feel better.

Spoiler:
LA LA LA LA! LA LA LA! LA LA! LA LA LA!
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Old 06-25-08, 09:11 AM
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Has consumption really increased as dramatically?

China and India have increased their use over 400% year over year. China is burning tons of diesel right now because they don't want the games to be polluted (not burning coal so they can clear up the skies).

I really think Americans didn't realize how fast the rest of the world can catch up. 3 billion people in Asia want to live like everyone in the US. How could we be so stupid to believe that it would never affect our standard of living?
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Old 06-25-08, 10:04 AM
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It's not so much consumption:



as net imports:



China will overtake us as a petroleum importer by 2025.
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Old 06-25-08, 10:07 AM
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Oh, how we did miss those graphs.

You've made the forum members' day.

Thank you.

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Old 06-25-08, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
President Bush: Inspector Clouseau, or Ernst Stavro Blofeld? Does anyone know for sure?

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