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The 2008 Presidential Election thread part XIX [Merged - Obama: Speak Spanish!]

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The 2008 Presidential Election thread part XIX [Merged - Obama: Speak Spanish!]

Old 06-14-08, 03:05 PM
  #26  
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http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/837626/

More discussion about the topic. I only wish my debt was as small of a percentage of my net worth as them.
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Old 06-14-08, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Dog
Well that proves he ain't no Muslim, although he's working to get there.
Well, all it actually proves is how much charity giving he wants the government (and probably the public) to know about.
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Old 06-14-08, 04:49 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Red Dog
Well that proves he ain't no Muslim, although he's working to get there.

And that McCain credit card tab is downright scary, and I think speaks volumes about his lack of discipline.
Well, I am no fan of McCain, but I wouldn't draw any conclusions about his credit card tab based on these articles. Both of the articles I have seen are inconsistent as to how much of the amount owed is credit card debt and how much is charge card debt. There is a difference, though many people (including the authors of these articles) mistakenly use the terms interchangeably. Basically, a charge card must be paid off in full each billing cycle. It is not a revolving account. See http://www.crediteria.com/CreditChat...arge_cards.htm for more details.

The articles mention that the bulk of the debt is on AmEx cards. The traditional AmEx cards (green cards, not blue) are charge cards. It would not be surprising for someone as wealthy as the McCains to have sizable charge card debt at any given time because using a card is a lot more convenient than paying cash for everything. The charge card balance would be (has to be) paid off each month. Sounds like most of the McCains' debt is charge card debt, with a small portion being credit card debt.

Last edited by JM; 06-14-08 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 06-14-08, 04:59 PM
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Yes, traditional Amex cards require monthly full payoff but given the amounts and the fact that they mention a 25% interest rate, it tells me it ain't a traditional Amex card.

I carry an Amex credit card where you can carry a balance. Not that I ever do. Unlike McCain, I have some financial discipline. I could get a traditional one, but I don't want to pay an annual fee.
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Old 06-14-08, 05:33 PM
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Olbermann: McCain should know better [MSNBC]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25126582/

At one time, I actually thought McCain would've made for an okay president because of his statements regarding war being a last resort and how much veterans hate war. Of course, that all changed once he got the Republican nomination. It's like the GOP gave him a list of all the positions he needed change on so that he could have a chance of winning the presidency.
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Old 06-14-08, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Dog
Yes, traditional Amex cards require monthly full payoff but given the amounts and the fact that they mention a 25% interest rate, it tells me it ain't a traditional Amex card.

I carry an Amex credit card where you can carry a balance. Not that I ever do. Unlike McCain, I have some financial discipline. I could get a traditional one, but I don't want to pay an annual fee.
Well, the MSNBC article only mentions the interest rate in relation to the $10,000 to $15,000 debt on a credit card. This article indicates the AmEx cards are charge cards. My point is that it isn't clear how much is credit card debt and how much is charge card debt, but the headlines are trying to characterize it all as credit card debt. It would be helpful to see a copy of the actual disclosure statement.
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Old 06-14-08, 05:45 PM
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You obviously weren't around when McCain was talking about what the U.S. should do in the Balkan War. That's when I figured out this guy should be nowhere near the Presidency.

Also, what's the deal with all these threads on the Presidential race? I thought we had a one & only for a reason.
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Old 06-14-08, 05:47 PM
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Tonight, a Special Comment on Sen. John McCain’s conclusion that it’s "not too important" when American forces come home from Iraq.

Thoughts, offered more in sorrow, than in anger. For two full days now, the Senator and his supporters have been outraged at what they see as the subtraction of context from this extraordinary remark.

This is, sadly, the excuse of our time, for everything. Still. If the Senator claims truncation, we will correct that, first.

"A lot of people," Matt Lauer began, "now say the surge is working."

"Anybody who knows the facts on the ground say that," the Senator interjected.

"If it’s now working, Senator," Lauer continued, "do you now have a better estimate of when American forces can come home from Iraq?"

"No," answered McCain. "But that’s not too important. What’s important is the casualties in Iraq. Americans are in South Korea. Americans are in Japan. American troops are in Germany.

That’s all fine. American casualties and the ability to withdraw. We will be able to withdraw. General Petraeus is going to tell us in July when he thinks we are. But the key to it is we don’t want any more Americans in harm’s way. And that way they will be safe, and serve our country, and come home with honor and victory — not in defeat, which is what Sen. [Barack] Obama’s proposal would have done. And I’m proud of them, and they’re doing a great job. And we are succeeding. And it’s fascinating that Sen. Obama still doesn’t realize it."

And there is the context of what Sen. McCain said. Well, not quite, Senator.

The full context is that the Iraq you see, is a figment of your imagination. This is not a war about "honor and victory," Sir. This is a war you, and the President you support and seek to succeed, conned this nation into.

Yes, sir. You.

Of the prospect of war in Iraq, you said, "I believe that success will be fairly easy –" John McCain., September 24, 2002.

"I believe that we can win an overwhelming victory in a very short period of time –" John McCain, September 29, 2002.

Of the ouster of Saddam and the Baathists: "There’s no doubt in my mind that once these people are gone, that we will be welcomed as liberators – " John McCain, March 24, 2003.

Asked, about a long-term commitment in Iraq, "are you talking about something in terms of South Korea, for instance, where you would expect U.S. troops to be in Iraq for decades?"

"No," you answered. "I don’t think decades, but I think years. A little straight talk, I think years. And I hope that we can gradually reduce that presence – " John McCain, March 18, 2004.

You were asked about the troops, and the future.

"I would hope that we could bring them all home. I would hope that we would probably leave some military advisers, as we have in other countries, to help them with their training and equipment and that kind of stuff."

"…I think one of our big problems has been the fact that many Iraqis resent American military presence. And I don’t pretend to know exactly Iraqi public opinion. But as soon as we can reduce our visibility as much as possible, the better I think it is going to be – " John McCain, January 31, 2005.

When a speaker at your town hall, five months ago, referenced the President’s forecast that we might stay in Iraq for 50 years, you cut him off.

"Make it a hundred! We’ve been in Japan for 60 years. We’ve been in South Korea 50 years or so. That would be fine with me. As long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed. That’s fine by me … – " John McCain, January 3, 2008.

And your forecast of your hypothetical first term.

"By January, 2013, America has welcomed home most of the servicemen and women who have sacrificed terribly so that America might be secure in her freedom. The Iraq war has been won – " John McCain, May 15, 2008.

That, Sen. McCain, is context.

You have attested to: a fairly easy success; an overwhelming victory in a very short period of time; in which we would be welcomed as liberators; which you assured us would not require our troops stay for decades but merely for years; from which we could bring them all home, since you noted many Iraqis resent American military presence; in which all those troops coming home will also stay there, not being injured, for a hundred years; but most will be back by 2013; and the timing of their return, is not that important.

That, Sen. McCain, is context.

And that, Sen. McCain, is madness.

The Government Accountability Office just released a study Tuesday that concludes that one out of every ten soldiers sent to Iraq, takes with them medical problems "severe enough to significantly limit their ability to fight."

In five years, we have now sent 43-thousand of them to war even though, they were already wounded.

And when they come home, is not that important.

Jalal al Din al Sagir, a member of the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq, and Ali al Adeeb, of the rival Dawa Political Party, gave a series of interviews last week about the particulars of this country’s demand for a "Status of Forces," agreement with Iraq, a treaty which Mr. Bush does not intend to show Congress before he signs it.

The Iraqi politicians say the treaty demands Iraq’s consent to the establishment of nearly double the number of U.S. military bases in Iraq,from about 30, to 58, and from temporary, to permanent.

Those will be American men and women who must, of necessity, staff these bases - staff them, in Mr. McCain’s MCEscher dream world in which our people can all come home while they stay there for a hundred years but they’ll be back by 2013.

And when they come home, is not that important.

Last year, a 20-year old soldier from the Bronx, on the day of his re-deployment to a second tour in Iraq, said he just couldn’t face the smell of burning flesh again. So, Jonathan Aponte paid a hit man 500 dollars... to shoot him in the knee.

Mount Sinai Hospital in New York reported treating a patient identifying himself as another Iraq-bound soldier, who claimed he had accidentally swallowed a pen at the bus station. No one doubted his story until examinations proved there was a second pen in his stomach bearing the logo of Greyhound Bus Lines.

In 2006, says his sister, a 24-year old Army Specialist from Washington State, on the eve of his second deployment, strapped a pack full of tools to his back, and then jumped off the roof of his house, injuring his spine.

And when they come home or more correctly all those like them who did not risk death or disability to avoid going back, when they come home, is not that important.

You’ve sold them all out, Senator. You.

You, whose sacrifice for this country was as all-encompassing and as horrible as the rest of us can only imagine in our darkest moments.

You, who survived, so that you could make America a better place where young men did not have to go and die in pointless wars or be maimed or be held prisoner or have to hire hit-men to shoot them in the knee because that couldn’t be worse.

You, who should know better.

Where, Senator, is the man who once said "veterans hate war more than anyone else, because veterans know, because veterans know these brave Americans, and others, know, that there is nothing more painful than the loss of a comrade."

Where is he, Sir? Where is the man who described that ineffable truth?

Oh, so long ago you touched the essence of the reality of Iraq. Your comments about your lost comrades, yesterday.

The men and women in Iraq, today, Senator, they are your comrades, too.

And you are condemning them to die.

To die, for your misdirection, for Mr. Bush’s lies, for whoever makes the money off building 58 permanent American bases and all the weapons and all the bullets and all the wiring so costly and so slip-shod that it electrocutes our comrades as they step, not to fight freedom’s enemies, but into the shower at the base.

That, Senator, that is context.

It is an easy thing to dismiss Sen. McCain as a sad and befuddled figure, already challenging for some kind of campaign record for malaprops.

Just yesterday in Philadelphia he answered Sen. Obama, not by defending or explaining his own "not that important" remark, but by seizing upon Obama’s "bitter" remark - or trying to.

Obama had foolishly said that some, in despair, in small towns, cling to their religion and their guns.

Sen. McCain vowed he’d go to those towns and tell them, "I don’t agree with Senator Obama that they cling to their religion and the Constitution because they’re bitter."

It was hard not to dismiss with a laugh, Sen. McCain, or any Republican, for even accidentally implying that he’s clung to the Constitution, not after the last seven years.

It was hard, the day before, not to become almost bemused when the Senator tried to say he would veto every single bill with ear-marks, but wound up, instead, vowing "I will veto every single beer."

It was hard, this week, not to laugh at how Sen. McCain could offer any serious defense against the accusation that he is running for President Bush’s third term, when a 2006 interview suddenly surfaced in which McCain said he would consider Dick Cheney for a position in a McCain administration.

"I don’t know if I would want him as Vice President. He and I have the same strengths. But to serve in other capacities? Hell, yeah."

These are all very funny, in a macabre yet unthreatening way.

And then one remembers Sen. McCain’s inability to separate Sunni and Shia, or his insistence that Iran is training Al Qaida for service in Iraq, and then being corrected about it, and then saying the same thing again anyway.

And then one is, inevitably, drawn back again to the overlooked substance of yesterday’s remark...

"If (the surge) is now working, Senator, do you now have a better estimate of when American forces can come home from Iraq?"

"No."

No?

The surge is working and even that still tells Sen. McCain nothing about when we can ransom our soldiers?

Wasn’t that the ultimate purpose of the surge? To get them out?

If we cannot tell, if McCain cannot even guess, doesn’t that, by definition, mean... the surge isn’t working?

And ultimately we are drawn back to the "not... too... important" remark, in its full context:

The context of the kaleidoscope of confused rhetoric, and endless non sequitur, and mutually exclusive conclusions—and what they add up to: a veritable tragedy, a microcosm of the American tragedy that is Iraq, a tragedy of a man who himself will never understand… "the context."

Your tragedy, Sen. McCain?

No. I’m sorry.

This tragedy is of Justin Mixon of Bogalusa, Louisiana. And it’s of Christopher McCarthy of Virginia Beach. It’s of Quincy Green of El Paso, and Joshua Waltenbaugh of Ford City, P.A. The tragedy is of Shane Duffy of Taunton Mass, and Jonathan Emard of Mesquite, Texas. It’s of Cody Legg of Escondido in California, and David Hurst of Fort Sill in Oklahoma. The tragedy is of Thomas Duncan the 3rd of Rowlett, Texas, and Tyler Pickett of Saratoga, Wyoming.

And who are they, Senator?

They are ten Americans, who have died in Iraq since the first of this month. There are four more. The Defense Department has not yet identified the others.

And while you, Senator, may ask for all the context you can get, those ten men... will never know any of it.

Because the true context here, is that if you could ask those American war heroes, or the family and the friends that loved them, if they have a better estimate of when American forces can come home from Iraq…

They could rightly say, "No. But that’s… not… too… important."
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Old 06-14-08, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Dog
Also, what's the deal with all these threads on the Presidential race? I thought we had a one & only for a reason.
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Old 06-14-08, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by hahn
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25126582/

At one time, I actually thought McCain would've made for an okay president because of his statements regarding war being a last resort and how much veterans hate war. Of course, that all changed once he got the Republican nomination. It's like the GOP gave him a list of all the positions he needed change on so that he could have a chance of winning the presidency.
The one position he should change and doesn't is on CAGW.
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Old 06-14-08, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Dog
You obviously weren't around when McCain was talking about what the U.S. should do in the Balkan War. That's when I figured out this guy should be nowhere near the Presidency.

Also, what's the deal with all these threads on the Presidential race? I thought we had a one & only for a reason.
#1 This doesn't deal directly with the race, just a candidate in the race. #2 That thread has too many various topics going on at once and makes it difficult to track.
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Old 06-14-08, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
Do you believe that a McCain administration would be more or less fiscally responsible than an Obama administration? If the answer is no, then why are you going to vote for Obama?

What does giving to charity have to do with being fiscally responsible?
1. Read again what JasonF said.

2. That's what I responded to. Point: governmental fiscal responsibility has absolutely nothing to do with personal fiscal responsibility.

3. JasonF was simply making a cheap shot. In that attempt - he seemed to have confused the two.

I'm not going to vote for Obama because I've bought this 'candidate of change' crap. I'm voting for him for 2 reasons: 1. I'm a Democrat - unlike some Obama supporters - I vote for Democrats. 2. I think he's preferable to McCain. The main reason is that I think he's probably less dangerous than McCain.

Last edited by classicman2; 06-14-08 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 06-14-08, 07:04 PM
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I'm a hell of a lot more interested in a president who is willing to pay for the wars the country are engaged in than I am what his credit card balance is or how much he/she owes.

As far as fiscal responsibility is concerned - all candidates claim they're going to be fiscally responsible. How many of them are?


btw: I don't know about you'll, but I'm damn sure proud of Red Dog for not carrying a balance - aren't you? He's the epitome of fiscal responsiblity. He deserves our kudos.
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Old 06-14-08, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Dog
Also, what's the deal with all these threads on the Presidential race? I thought we had a one & only for a reason.
Agreed.
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Old 06-14-08, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Dog

Also, what's the deal with all these threads on the Presidential race? I thought we had a one & only for a reason.

Personally, I don't like have hundreds of micro-topics within one post. It makes it extremely difficult to respond to one specific topic posted. Also, just because someone posts about McCain, doesn't necessarily mean it's a Presidential Race topic per se.

Having one thread which deals with the largest topic of the nation until the end of this year, is rather retarded.
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Old 06-14-08, 08:40 PM
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Damn, Nesbit, you should bold that propaganda piece.
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Old 06-14-08, 08:59 PM
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I don't like McCain at all. But having Olbermann say something about him makes me pay as much attention as Limbaugh trying to make a point about Obama. There just isn't any reason to listen to it other than to confirm you currently held position.
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Old 06-14-08, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by hahn
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25126582/

At one time, I actually thought McCain would've made for an okay president because of his statements regarding war being a last resort and how much veterans hate war. Of course, that all changed once he got the Republican nomination. It's like the GOP gave him a list of all the positions he needed change on so that he could have a chance of winning the presidency.
Allow me. At one time liberals thought McCain would've made for an okay president because he was the most liberal Republican they had ever seen run. Of course, that all changed once there was actually a chance that a liberal who atually dared to spout liberal ideas came around and won th enomination.

McCain cannot win the presidency by using any list from anyone. He can only win if there is a big blowup that come about on the part of OBama's past. He is simply too liberal to get most Republicans to care to go out and vote.

As someone else said, when the Govenor of Massachussetts is far more conservative than the Senator from Arizona, the game is over.
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Old 06-14-08, 10:14 PM
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If McCain was willing to mimic what Obama was doing, admit Iraq War was retarded, while still retaining moderate moral stances on abortion, marriage, he would do rather well. But he's a dumbass. He thinks campaigning under Bush is going to help him. Well, maybe currently if he's getting money from conservative lobbyists, but it won't mean shit when the voters go to the polls, now will it. But alas, McCain doesn't see long-term, just like Bush.
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Old 06-14-08, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by classicman2
btw: I don't know about you'll, but I'm damn sure proud of Red Dog for not carrying a balance - aren't you? He's the epitome of fiscal responsiblity. He deserves our kudos.
Three cheers for Red Dog! I'm writing him in in November.
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Old 06-15-08, 12:39 AM
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I don't carry a balance either. Where are my kudos?
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Old 06-15-08, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by JasonF
I don't carry a balance either. Where are my kudos?
They fell off a clif.

Last edited by dork; 06-15-08 at 12:50 AM.
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Old 06-15-08, 12:50 AM
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Okay, that's gotta be the stupidest fucking thing I've ever posted.

But the night is young!
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Old 06-15-08, 01:17 AM
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This presidential election thread has a nice, relaxing tone that the others lacked. I could fall asleep to this thread.

What the fuck is wrong with you people? McCain's a womanizer and a Bush, Jr.! Obama's a socialist and inexperienced! The election will be a landslide--both ways!

PS: Kudos to JasonF, but Red Dog still has my vote. Red Dog stands for change.
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Old 06-15-08, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
If McCain was willing to mimic what Obama was doing, admit Iraq War was retarded, while still retaining moderate moral stances on abortion, marriage, he would do rather well. But he's a dumbass. He thinks campaigning under Bush is going to help him. Well, maybe currently if he's getting money from conservative lobbyists, but it won't mean shit when the voters go to the polls, now will it. But alas, McCain doesn't see long-term, just like Bush.
Is he "campaigning under Bush" now? I know some in the media--and many on this board--are making it look like he is, but I haven't seen him doing so. Beside the fact that they're both Republicans. I, personally, have heard little positive reference to Bush (by the actual candidates) through this whole campaign.
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