Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

Islam and the West

Old 08-24-10, 09:08 PM
  #876  
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: Islam and the West

Fox News is indeed staggeringly stupid and evil.


<table style='font:11px arial; color:#333; background-color:#f5f5f5' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='360' height='353'><tbody><tr style='background-color:#e5e5e5' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com'>The Daily Show With Jon Stewart</a></td><td style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; text-align:right; font-weight:bold;'>Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c</td></tr><tr style='height:14px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;' colspan='2'<a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-23-2010/the-parent-company-trap'>The Parent Company Trap<a></td></tr><tr style='height:14px; background-color:#353535' valign='middle'><td colspan='2' style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; width:360px; overflow:hidden; text-align:right'><a target='_blank' style='color:#96deff; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/'>www.thedailyshow.com</a></td></tr><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><embed style='display:block' src='http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:351494' width='360' height='301' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='window' allowFullscreen='true' flashvars='autoPlay=false' allowscriptaccess='always' allownetworking='all' bgcolor='#000000'></embed></td></tr><tr style='height:18px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><table style='margin:0px; text-align:center' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='100%' height='100%'><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/'>Daily Show Full Episodes</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.indecisionforever.com/'>Political Humor</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/videos/tag/Tea+Party'>Tea Party</a></td></tr></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
Jose Dromedary is offline  
Old 08-24-10, 09:30 PM
  #877  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 25,058
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: Islam and the West

Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
And for god's sake, lets not turn this into a debate over zoning.
No, let's! It'll be ever so much fun!
Tracer Bullet is offline  
Old 08-24-10, 09:40 PM
  #878  
Admin
 
VinVega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Herding cats
Posts: 32,910
Received 132 Likes on 81 Posts
Re: Islam and the West

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
There's at least one church about a block away.

People who are opposed to this thing are opposed because of an emotional response, and that's OK, I guess. But trying to argue against it rationally when your opposition isn't rational is doomed to failure.


There are some things that some Muslims do that I don't think I would ever agree with, but they have a right to put up what amounts to a Muslim version of a YMCA 2 blocks from ground zero and they even have the right to put up a Mosque 2 blocks from the WTC. It's not a provocation at all.
VinVega is online now  
Old 08-25-10, 06:04 AM
  #879  
DVD Talk God
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 68,522
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: Islam and the West

You have the right to do a lot of things that would be inapproriate for you to do.

Stop the 'they have the right' argument. Of course they have the right.
classicman2 is offline  
Old 08-25-10, 06:37 AM
  #880  
DVD Talk God
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 68,522
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: Islam and the West

From the 'tolerant wing' of the DVD Talk Politics Forum:

'If you oppose this you are a racist, bigot, blind, stupid, ignorant, ......etc.'

Have I left anything out?
classicman2 is offline  
Old 08-25-10, 09:05 AM
  #881  
DVD Talk Legend
 
sracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
Posts: 13,600
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
Re: Islam and the West

Originally Posted by Joe Camel View Post
Fox News is indeed staggeringly stupid and evil.


<table style='font:11px arial; color:#333; background-color:#f5f5f5' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='360' height='353'><tbody><tr style='background-color:#e5e5e5' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com'>The Daily Show With Jon Stewart</a></td><td style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; text-align:right; font-weight:bold;'>Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c</td></tr><tr style='height:14px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;' colspan='2'<a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-23-2010/the-parent-company-trap'>The Parent Company Trap<a></td></tr><tr style='height:14px; background-color:#353535' valign='middle'><td colspan='2' style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; width:360px; overflow:hidden; text-align:right'><a target='_blank' style='color:#96deff; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/'>www.thedailyshow.com</a></td></tr><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><embed style='display:block' src='http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:351494' width='360' height='301' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='window' allowFullscreen='true' flashvars='autoPlay=false' allowscriptaccess='always' allownetworking='all' bgcolor='#000000'></embed></td></tr><tr style='height:18px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><table style='margin:0px; text-align:center' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='100%' height='100%'><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/'>Daily Show Full Episodes</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.indecisionforever.com/'>Political Humor</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/videos/tag/Tea+Party'>Tea Party</a></td></tr></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
Staggeringly stupid? I tend to agree with the evil part, but in what way is Fox News "staggeringly stupid"?
sracer is offline  
Old 08-25-10, 09:52 AM
  #882  
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: Islam and the West

Originally Posted by sracer View Post
Staggeringly stupid? I tend to agree with the evil part, but in what way is Fox News "staggeringly stupid"?
Try watching the video.
Jose Dromedary is offline  
Old 08-25-10, 10:20 AM
  #883  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 36,979
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: Islam and the West

Why does Fox News get brought up in every thread?
Venusian is offline  
Old 08-25-10, 10:37 AM
  #884  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Dr Mabuse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: 75 clicks above the Do Lung bridge...
Posts: 18,946
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Re: Islam and the West

Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
Why does Fox News get brought up in every thread?
Because they knocked the liberal propaganda that is the rest of the mainstream media's dick in the dirt. I mean they slapped those bitches down and beat them like a red headed stepchild, and crushes everything else added together in ratings. I think Fox continues to even further increase its rating dominance to this day.

So the left hates them for it. They gobble up the ridiculous bullshit of the propaganda they like as pure crystalline truth in it's immaculate perfection, and the propaganda from Fox as 'evil lies'.

It's pretty hilarious really. But people are that simple minded.
Dr Mabuse is offline  
Old 08-25-10, 11:09 AM
  #885  
DVD Talk Legend
Thread Starter
 
Ky-Fi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Cape Ann, Massachusetts
Posts: 10,928
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: Islam and the West

Europe is a lot further along than the US in dealing with a large Muslim population, and it's interesting to see how it's affecting various countries over there----creating strange alliances and opponents:


Are the French Taking Secularism Too Far?

By Bruce Crumley / Paris Monday, Aug. 23, 2010


For most of the 105 years it's been in force, France's secularity law has endeavored to segregate private religious belief from the strictly agnostic sphere of public life — usually without too much friction. But that relative harmony has given way to tension and conflict in recent years, as secularists have turned their attention to the spreading influence of Islam, now France's second largest faith.

Whereas secularism — or laïcité — traditionally sought to create a wall between religious expression and the public domain, critics claim its defenders have become far more militant. In some cases, that's creating a zero-sum showdown in which France's secularists, who dominate public life and debate, are exhibiting a quasi-evangelical zeal in imposing the values of laïcité on the private observance of religious minorities, particularly Muslims.

"The 1905 law establishing secularism describes it as a measure to protect individual citizens' freedom of religion and faith by rendering the state totally neutral to — and disconnected from — religious matters," says Jean Baubérot, a professor emeritus of sociology and expert on secularism at Paris University's École Pratique des Hautes Études. Baubérot notes that secularity was initially meant to reduce the Catholic Church's influence on society by tasking the state with removing religious instruction from public schools as part of a general effort to relegate questions of faith to the private sphere. "Now we frequently see secularists urging the state to intervene in the private religious affairs or practices of people or organizations," Baubérot says. "Increasingly, secularity resembles what Jean-Jacques Rousseau called a 'civil religion': the values and dogma of a state that individual citizens must submit to — or be made to respect."

The most controversial example of secularism's evolution is the pending French law to ban full-body coverings like the burqa and niqab, whose final passage is expected in October. But that headline-grabbing measure (which will affect only an estimated 370 to 2,000 women) was preceded by the 2004 prohibition of headscarves being worn by Muslim women in public schools. More recently, pundits, bloggers and others have entered a loud public debate over whether the serving of halal beef by fast-food outlets is also a violation of laïcité. Meanwhile, militants of extreme right- and left-wing groups have banded together under the banner of secularity to stage public gatherings in which attendants eat pork sausage and sip wine — an attempt, organizers say, to send Muslims the message that their religion won't be tolerated within the tableau of French daily life.


France's fractious relationship with Islam isn't new. What is new, though, is the way the nation is radicalizing secularity by setting limits that effectively invade the private religious lives of its Muslims. Islam seems to have taken the place of Catholicism as the main target of secularist ire. Catholics initially decried early secularist measures as unfair and abusive. As segregation of private faith from public life became the norm, however, impassioned tussles between the state, institutional advocates of secularity and religious groups gave way to administrative formality and legal process.

In July, for example, the Conseil d'Etat — one of France's highest legal bodies — heard a request by the France-based International Observatory of Secularism to strike down 2008 educational accords between the Foreign Ministry and the Vatican. The Conseil's ruling upheld the bilateral agreement, under which France recognizes diplomas granted by Catholic universities operating outside the French educational system. But the Conseil's decision also required that state colleges and institutions reject any applicants who hold Vatican-sanctioned degrees that education authorities deem inferior to official French standards. Such is the studied, sober manner in which France tries to decide the limits of Catholicism's reach.
(Comment on this story.)

At times, however, that approach is overtaken by more emotional secular sorties. In late July, two Communist Party parliamentarians proposed legislation to "prohibit [any] President of the Republic from receiving any religious title" — a belated response to President Nicolas Sarkozy's 2007 acceptance of the honorary canon of St. John Lateran (a title the Vatican has for centuries bestowed upon French heads of state). The reason, the proposal reads, is that France's constitution defines the nation as "secular" — a legal obligation making "this mix of activity between politics and religion ... intolerable in our Republic."

Secular watchdogs have been even touchier elsewhere. In 2007, Christine Bouton, then France's Urban Housing Minister, tapped a Catholic priest to act as adviser on policies to improve the nation's troubled housing projects. The French public let out cries of protest in response — ignoring the priest's experience and social work in suburban ghettos. More recently, Green Party politicians in the northern Paris suburb of Aulnay-sous-Bois aired concern in July over the city's decision to create meat-free menus in public-school cafeterias. The move, critics claimed, was fine for vegetarians but would look too much like acquiescence to Muslim parents who had requested halal meat in school lunches.

To some observers, such protests sound a lot like secular fundamentalism. "As secularists become more militant, their arguments have gotten less rational and have begun to ring with the righteous conviction you usually associate with religious forces they oppose," says Rokhaya Diallo, founder of Les Indivisibles, an association that celebrates the diversity of modern France. "My perception of secularity has always been one of protection, of the state and society defending individuals and minority religions from coercion. Now we frequently see the opposite at work."

Both Diallo and secularism expert Baubérot attribute the trend to rising secularist concern about the spread of Islam's influence. That feeling, Diallo laments, has led "people from politicians to ordinary citizens to recognize secularity as an alibi to express increasingly Islamophobic attitudes." Baubérot says this is mostly a reaction to France's wider worries about where its society is headed — so it uses the tradition of secularity to respond to what it regards as the challenge posed by Islam. Only time will tell whether France can establish with Islam the happy balance it generally maintains with other faiths — or whether laïcité will become synonymous with the state's interference in how Muslims practice their faith.



Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...#ixzz0xdOJ5LWU
Ky-Fi is offline  
Old 08-25-10, 11:21 AM
  #886  
DVD Talk Hero
 
CRM114's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 42,731
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: Islam and the West

Originally Posted by Rockmjd23 View Post
I think I understand what you meant to write here...but yes it is interesting who is taking the "freedom of religion" side, this time.
I'm on the Constitution side. People are free to worship any imaginary being they choose to as long as it doesn't encroach into government affairs.
CRM114 is offline  
Old 08-25-10, 11:24 AM
  #887  
DVD Talk God
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 68,522
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: Islam and the West

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
I'm on the Constitution side. People are free to worship any imaginary being they choose to as long as it doesn't encroach into government affairs.
It's one of the few times you've been on The Constitution side.

The forum should celebrate.
classicman2 is offline  
Old 08-25-10, 11:28 AM
  #888  
DVD Talk Hero
 
CRM114's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 42,731
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: Islam and the West

Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse View Post
Because they knocked the liberal propaganda that is the rest of the mainstream media's dick in the dirt. I mean they slapped those bitches down and beat them like a red headed stepchild, and crushes everything else added together in ratings. I think Fox continues to even further increase its rating dominance to this day.

So the left hates them for it. They gobble up the ridiculous bullshit of the propaganda they like as pure crystalline truth in it's immaculate perfection, and the propaganda from Fox as 'evil lies'.

It's pretty hilarious really. But people are that simple minded.
So you are slamming every other news organization in response to Fox failing to uncover the nefarious mosque funder is a major FoxNews shareholder? Yes, its the liberals and their simple minds.
CRM114 is offline  
Old 08-25-10, 11:29 AM
  #889  
DVD Talk Hero
 
CRM114's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 42,731
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: Islam and the West

Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post
It's one of the few times you've been on The Constitution side.

The forum should celebrate.
That's not true.
CRM114 is offline  
Old 08-25-10, 01:33 PM
  #890  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 9,673
Received 21 Likes on 11 Posts
Re: Islam and the West

Originally Posted by Burnt Thru View Post
Is America trying to institutionalize the idea that it is a Christian country and other faiths are not welcome?
This was briefly touched on in the atheist thread. I'd need more info to come to any definitive opinion on it, but so far it just sounds like someone made a foolish decision and nothing more.
Artman is offline  
Old 08-25-10, 02:02 PM
  #891  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 25,058
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: Islam and the West

Isn't it well past time to lock this puppy up and move on to Part II (Riyadh Jihad)?
Tracer Bullet is offline  
Old 08-25-10, 02:11 PM
  #892  
DVD Talk God
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 68,522
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: Islam and the West

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnt Thru
Is America trying to institutionalize the idea that it is a Christian country and other faiths are not welcome?

Surely you jest.

You can't be serious.
classicman2 is offline  
Old 08-25-10, 04:24 PM
  #893  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
toddly6666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: Islam and the West

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yszKc4m-W9U?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yszKc4m-W9U?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>
toddly6666 is offline  
Old 08-25-10, 05:14 PM
  #894  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Lower Gum Curve
Posts: 19,194
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes on 12 Posts
Re: Islam and the West

Originally Posted by Burnt Thru View Post
Is America trying to institutionalize the idea that it is a Christian country and other faiths are not welcome?

No, just the fundies, teabaggers, and the people who want their votes.
Jason is offline  
Old 08-25-10, 05:21 PM
  #895  
X
Administrator
 
X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1987
Location: AA-
Posts: 10,807
Received 17 Likes on 14 Posts
Re: Islam and the West

Originally Posted by Jason View Post
No, just the fundies, teabaggers, and the people who want their votes.
...like Harry Reid and Debbie Wasserman Schultz.
X is offline  
Old 08-25-10, 06:33 PM
  #896  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MA
Posts: 17,003
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: Islam and the West

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
I'm on the Constitution side. People are free to worship any imaginary being they choose to as long as it doesn't encroach into government affairs.
Ok now things are back to normal
Rockmjd23 is offline  
Old 08-25-10, 06:50 PM
  #897  
Enormous Genitals
 
Bandoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: a small cottage on a cul de sac in the lower pits of hell.
Posts: 33,568
Received 22 Likes on 14 Posts
Re: Islam and the West

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
That's not true.

I agree. The forum should NOT celebrate.
Bandoman is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.