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Iraq thread v.5 - Including SHOES!

Old 04-24-08, 11:39 AM
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Iraq thread v.5 - Including SHOES!

continued from http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=514268
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Old 04-24-08, 12:06 PM
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Time for some MOABs.
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Old 04-24-08, 07:50 PM
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Should Iran be worried about this promotion? - TruGator

Nope. Gen. P is a politician first, and a general second. Hence, his promotion.

I miss Norman.

Originally Posted by Stormin' Norman
Do what is right, not what you think the high headquarters wants or what you think will make you look good
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Old 04-28-08, 08:52 AM
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Audit: Millions in Iraq contracts never finished

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24346992

WASHINGTON - Millions of dollars of lucrative Iraq reconstruction contracts were never finished because of excessive delays, poor performance or other factors, including failed projects that are being falsely described by the U.S. government as complete, federal investigators say.
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Old 04-28-08, 09:16 AM
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Did you believe Powell was a politician first, and a general second?
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Old 04-28-08, 09:33 AM
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Sure. Focus on the negative without mentioning the positive.

I'll have you know that two of the contracts that this so-called report would classify as "incomplete" were made up in summer school because the participants had mono in the Spring*.


*the participants were then executed after completing the project once it was discovered by local authorities that mononucleosis is also knows as the "kissing" disease.
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Old 04-28-08, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Thor Simpson
Sure. Focus on the negative without mentioning the positive.

I'll have you know that two of the contracts that this so-called report would classify as "incomplete" were made up in summer school because the participants had mono in the Spring*.
Government waste isn't a laughing matter.
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Old 04-28-08, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
Government waste isn't a laughing matter.
...Especially not when we're actually considering handing them health care as well?
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Old 04-28-08, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by classicman2
Did you believe Powell was a politician first, and a general second?
At what particular point in time?
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Old 04-29-08, 10:03 AM
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The more stars on your shoulder, the more politics you play. That's just how it works.

Anything new going on in Iraq? Otherwise, wake me up when it's 2108.
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Old 04-29-08, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by VinVega
Anything new going on in Iraq?
There is some FLDS thing going on where they are putting the kids in custody of Al Sadr followers, and some Iraqi pop star girl is making a return appearance to the hilarious "How I Met your Mushka" but it's not getting much media Attention. Wait... no. CNN failed to load properly. I'm crossing my headlines.
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Old 04-30-08, 05:31 PM
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White House admits fault on 'Mission Accomplished' banner

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080430/...bYsj53cwEGw_IE

By TERENCE HUNT, AP White House Correspondent 39 minutes ago

The White House said Wednesday that President Bush has paid a price for the "Mission Accomplished" banner that was flown in triumph five years ago but later became a symbol of U.S. misjudgments and mistakes in the long and costly war in Iraq.

Thursday is the fifth anniversary of Bush's dramatic landing in a Navy jet on an aircraft carrier homebound from the war. The USS Abraham Lincoln had launched thousands of airstrikes on Iraq.

"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended," Bush said at the time. "The battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began on Sept. 11, 2001, and still goes on." The "Mission Accomplished" banner was prominently displayed above him — a move the White House came to regret as the display was mocked and became a source of controversy.

After shifting explanations, the White House eventually said the "Mission Accomplished" phrase referred to the carrier's crew completing its 10-month mission, not the military completing its mission in Iraq. Bush, in October 2003, disavowed any connection with the "Mission Accomplished" message. He said the White House had nothing to do with the banner; a spokesman later said the ship's crew asked for the sign and the White House staff had it made by a private vendor.

"President Bush is well aware that the banner should have been much more specific and said `mission accomplished' for these sailors who are on this ship on their mission," White House press secretary Dana Perino said Wednesday. "And we have certainly paid a price for not being more specific on that banner. And I recognize that the media is going to play this up again tomorrow, as they do every single year."

She said what is important now is "how the president would describe the fight today. It's been a very tough month in Iraq, but we are taking the fight to the enemy."

At least 49 U.S. troops died in Iraq in April, making it the deadliest month since September when 65 U.S. troops died.

Now in its sixth year, the war in Iraq has claimed the lives of at least 4,061 members of the U.S. military. Only the Vietnam War (August 1964 to January 1973), the war in Afghanistan (October 2001 to present) and the Revolutionary War (July 1776 to April 1783) have engaged America longer.

Bush, in a speech earlier this month, said that "while this war is difficult, it is not endless."

___

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White House: http://www.whitehouse.gov




What a bunch of bull.
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Old 04-30-08, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by dick_grayson
White House admits fault on 'Mission Accomplished' banner

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080430/...bYsj53cwEGw_IE

By TERENCE HUNT, AP White House Correspondent 39 minutes ago

The White House said Wednesday that President Bush has paid a price for the "Mission Accomplished" banner that was flown in triumph five years ago but later became a symbol of U.S. misjudgments and mistakes in the long and costly war in Iraq.

Thursday is the fifth anniversary of Bush's dramatic landing in a Navy jet on an aircraft carrier homebound from the war. The USS Abraham Lincoln had launched thousands of airstrikes on Iraq.

"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended," Bush said at the time. "The battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began on Sept. 11, 2001, and still goes on." The "Mission Accomplished" banner was prominently displayed above him — a move the White House came to regret as the display was mocked and became a source of controversy.

After shifting explanations, the White House eventually said the "Mission Accomplished" phrase referred to the carrier's crew completing its 10-month mission, not the military completing its mission in Iraq. Bush, in October 2003, disavowed any connection with the "Mission Accomplished" message. He said the White House had nothing to do with the banner; a spokesman later said the ship's crew asked for the sign and the White House staff had it made by a private vendor.

"President Bush is well aware that the banner should have been much more specific and said `mission accomplished' for these sailors who are on this ship on their mission," White House press secretary Dana Perino said Wednesday. "And we have certainly paid a price for not being more specific on that banner. And I recognize that the media is going to play this up again tomorrow, as they do every single year."

She said what is important now is "how the president would describe the fight today. It's been a very tough month in Iraq, but we are taking the fight to the enemy."

At least 49 U.S. troops died in Iraq in April, making it the deadliest month since September when 65 U.S. troops died.

Now in its sixth year, the war in Iraq has claimed the lives of at least 4,061 members of the U.S. military. Only the Vietnam War (August 1964 to January 1973), the war in Afghanistan (October 2001 to present) and the Revolutionary War (July 1776 to April 1783) have engaged America longer.

Bush, in a speech earlier this month, said that "while this war is difficult, it is not endless."

___

On the Net:

White House: http://www.whitehouse.gov




What a bunch of bull.
Thank goodness he didn't do it a day later, otherwise I would be reminded of this every year on my birthday.

What's going to be longer: The war in Iraq, the development of Duke Nukem Forever, or the recording of Chinese Democracy?
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Old 04-30-08, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by zekeburger1979
What's going to be longer: The war in Iraq, the development of Duke Nukem Forever, or the recording of Chinese Democracy?

I think that the next Duke Nukem and Chinese democracy will be out before 2108 (when John McCain thinks we should leave Iraq).
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Old 05-01-08, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by zekeburger1979
What's going to be longer: The war in Iraq, the development of Duke Nukem Forever, or the recording of Chinese Democracy?
I'm waiting for Diablo IV.
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Old 05-02-08, 12:15 PM
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http://www.nypost.com/seven/05022008...130.htm?page=0
WHAT I LEARNED AT 'ANTI-JIHAD U'
By JUDITH MILLER


May 2, 2008 -- LAST month, I visited one of the largest Islamic schools in the Middle East.
It's run by the US military - for detainees in Iraq.

The suspected insurgents also participate in discussion programs about Islam - and are being trained to be carpenters, farmers and artists. It's all part of the US military's radically new approach to detention in Iraq - an integral part of its counterinsurgency effort.

For the past nine months, Task Force 134 (9,000 personnel from all the uniformed services) has been experimenting with such unconventional initiatives at two large "camps" that hold 23,245 suspected insurgents. The officer in charge is Maj. Gen. Douglas M. Stone, USMC, who oversees civilian detention in Iraq.

The goal is not only to speed up the identification and release of those falsely accused of "jihadi" activity, but also to deradicalize and rehabilitate other detainees. Judging by the early results, the new approach seems to be working - at least for the vast majority. A relatively small hard core probably can't be safely released anytime soon, but US officers say that the overwhelming majority, probably more than two-thirds, will likely be freed by year's end.

Of the 8,000 detainees released since last September, only 21 have been recaptured as a result of suspected insurgent activity - a rate officers say is unprecedented. "It means that only 0.2 percent of those detained have returned to the fight," Stone told me. "At no time in the history of collected data in Iraq do we have anything remotely like this."

In my five days with the task force, I wasn't permitted to talk privately with detainees. But I visited both Camp Cropper (near Baghdad) and Camp Bucca (outside Basra). I also sat in on classes - and watched three-member military panels question detainees and review their records to decide their fates. I also interviewed more than a dozen US soldiers and Iraqi teachers, social workers and clerics working in the program.

Ahmed, a 30-year-old Sunni, talked with me as he was being released. He told me he'd never been physically abused or mistreated during his 11 months there - and had learned how to read, write, do carpentry and play chess. "Because I had never played chess before, I had to cheat to win," he joked. "None of this would have happened in an Iraqi jail."

The military tries to involve detainees' families in their rehabilitation via frequent visits, letters and cell-phone contact. At Camp Bucca - the largest detention facility in Iraq, with 20,000 of the 23,000-plus detainees - more than 1,200 family members visit interned relatives each week. At Camp Cropper, some 100 families visit each day.

The training/education effort is the reverse not only of Abu Ghraib, but of the military's former "feeding and warehousing system" - which wound up breeding an insurgency in America's own internment facilities, officers told me.

The programs also tell us much about the causes of Islamic extremism and how best to defeat such impulses. The task force's data show that 81 percent of the suspected insurgents are Iraqi males and Sunni. (Only 14 women are being detained, plus 575 juveniles, whose average age is 15.) The 240 non-Iraqi fighters hail from 21 countries. Most detainees are ages 18 to 29.

And most are motivated mainly by money, or lack of it. Some 78 percent said they'd participated in attacks against Coalition forces to feed their families, and 79 percent have children. Only one in three said that they had a strong religious belief. Some 64 percent are illiterate.

A major tipping point, say officers, was when detainees began volunteering for the classes being offered. Although al Qaeda detainees and the Takfiris (another group of religious extremists) pressured fellow Iraqis against joining in, more than 3,000 detainees have done so.

"After Iraqis here learn how to read and write, they can read the Koran themselves for the first time," says Sheik Ali, a Sunni who counsels detainees. (Like most Iraqis working in the program, he declined to give his surname; he must live in a US-guarded compound to avoid reprisals.) "I've seen detainees break down and cry when they realize that the conduct they thought was sanctioned by God is actually a sin."

The program's not cheap. The task force will spend about $1 billion this year, including new-facility construction. But a continued insurgency would be even more costly - in American and Iraqi lives.

And it has its critics. Marc Sageman, a psychiatrist, former CIA case officer and expert in Islamic radicalization, sees promise - but says that it's too early to call the program a success. He also fears that many detainees deemed to be de-radicalized, and then released to the still-unstable outside environment, may eventually revert to their former militancy and violent habits.

Human Rights Watch complains that it (along with a UN monitor) hasn't been allowed to interview detainees privately to ensure that they're not being mistreated or abused. But the US military argues that in time of war, only the Red Cross is entitled to make such unescorted visits - and has routinely done so.

Officers insist that a UN resolution authorizes them to detain anyone who endangers Coalition forces, and that those detained aren't traditional POWs. But the US military's program applies Geneva Conventions standards to those it now holds.

Indeed, the Geneva rules are posted in many locations at both camps, along with the task force's unofficial motto for how it wants all detainees to be treated - with "respect."

Judith Miller is a contributing editor of the Manhattan Institute's City Journal, from whose Web site this is adapted.
I wish this could have been done from the beginning. But at least it is happening now.
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Old 05-02-08, 12:40 PM
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What happened to "all detainees are Islamofascists that need to be tortured and killed", and more importantly, who's posting under bhk's username?
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Old 05-02-08, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by eXcentris
What happened to "all detainees are Islamofascists that need to be tortured and killed", and more importantly, who's posting under bhk's username?
Yeah from that article it looks like we're just giving the terrorists a big hug.

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Old 05-02-08, 01:34 PM
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There's a difference between potential terrorists that haven't been completely brainwashed by the death cult and ones that have. Obviously the ones that are responsible for carrying out terrorism against our soldiers need to be found and destroyed, but the ones who haven't should be given a chance to come out of the stone age and disengage themselves from the death cult.
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Old 05-02-08, 05:43 PM
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My take on the Iraq war centers around the definition of "victory".

After we "win", is a future Iraqi government and population going to:

* support a separation of religion and state?
* reject Sharia law, and its implications for women, religious minorities and gays?
* give all religions equal footing under the law?
* allow people to choose their religions freely?
* give women equal status under the law?
* actually side WITH the US and AGAINST other Muslim countries on Mideast issues and conflicts?
* acknowledge the right of Israel to exist?
* allow artistic and academic freedom, including freedom to criticize Islam?


If the answer to all these questions is "no", and I think there's a very good likelihood of that, then I don't want one American soldier to give his life to prop up that kind of society, and I don't want to see the US pour billions of taxpayer dollars into that cause, either.

I think the Bush administration's motives were noble, but just like the European leftists, they're operating under the same multicultural utopian fantasy that "muslims don't REALLY want to believe in Islam---in fact they want to be just like us!"

Iraq War Architects Shrug Off Truth

By Diana West
Friday, May 2, 2008


So there I was, listening to a few of the major "architects" of the war in Iraq -- Paul Wolfowitz, formerly No. 2 man at the Pentagon under Donald Rumsfeld; Douglas J. Feith, formerly No. 3 man at the Pentagon under Rumsfeld; Peter Rodman, another former senior adviser to Rumsfeld; and Dan Senor, former senior adviser to Paul Bremer of the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA). They had assembled at the Hudson Institute in Washington, D.C., for a discussion of Feith's new book, "War and Decision: Inside the Pentagon at the Dawn of the War on Terrorism," but what they were drawn to discuss was what went wrong with the war in Iraq.

A rather large topic. Would it cover, perhaps, such grand themes as the multicultural Big Lie that insists Western ways may be grafted -- presto! -- onto Islamic cultures? Or maybe the difficulties inherent in the Western-style, humane projection of power against seventh-century terrorist barbarians?

No.


The main discussion I heard turned more or less on one extremely narrow point of historic contention. It concerned the CPA rule of Iraq, which came to an end almost exactly four years ago. Wolfowitz and Feith, and Rodman to a less explicit degree, agreed that this period of American governance -- that is, the interlude before Iraq officially became sovereign -- was the fatal flaw, the fly in the ointment, the monkey wrench, the skunk at the garden party, the bad penny and overall cause of all of America's troubles in Iraq. It wasn't the overweening Bush administration plan for Jeffersonizing the Fertile Crescent, or our leaders' misreading of the "democratic ally" potential therein. It was the 14-month-reign of the CPA that caused all our woes. The CPA, the argument goes, in effect created the Sunni insurgency, which later gave rise to the Sunni-Shiite wars, and which ultimately required the added infusion of American troops known as the surge.

If I'm following this theory correctly, there is absolutely nothing in Iraqi history, politics, religion, sectarianism or culture that manifested itself in the bloody insurgency that followed the removal of Saddam Hussein. According to Feith & Co., it was only the American face on (and muscle behind) initial efforts to bring order, civil society and air conditioning to Iraq that made the newly ejected-from-power Sunnis (and others) organize, shoot, stab, blow up, maim and make violence a fact of Iraqi life to this day, four years into Iraqi sovereignty.

This sounds a bit like the asinine theory that tells us U.S. foreign policy made 19 jihadists attack us on 9/11. But isn't there also something a little goofy about the notion that if only the United States hadn't run an occupation government for a year, everything in Iraq would be hunky-dory? Not surprisingly, the CPA's Senor didn't agree with the Feithian proposition, arguing that the lack of a U.S. counterinsurgency strategy was a bigger problem. He didn't get much argument that this was a problem; indeed, Wolfowitz agreed the United States was, as he put it a trifle breezily, "pretty much clueless on counterinsurgency."

The classic clueless moment, however, came later in answer to a question from the floor: Did the administration ever tell Syria, Iran and Saudi Arabia to bar combatants from crossing their borders into Iraq -- or else? And if not ("not" is clearly the answer since these borders have been Grand Central Station for jihadists), why not? Wolfowitz owned up that the United States had said something or other at some point, but, overall, the consensus on the dais came down to a big, shrugging non-answer.

I got one of those answers myself, at least from Feith. I asked: What did these gentlemen think the United States would ultimately get out of Iraq in exchange for our massive investment of blood and treasure? And had they learned anything to make them doubt the president's often-repeated promise that Iraq would become an "ally" in the "war on terror"? Shrug. Not interested in answering.

Looking back, there was a narrowness in the scope of discussion that time constraints alone can't explain. It was as though the men believed every clue to heartbreak in Iraq could be found in the chain of events as they had already occurred -- in papers already generated, debates already argued, rounds of infighting already waged, decisions already executed. In other words, to these men, there would seem to be nothing new worth pondering -- like, for instance, the havoc Islamic ways wreak on Western-style nation-building.

Shrug.

http://www.townhall.com/Columnists/D...hrug_off_truth



Diana West is a contributing columnist for Townhall.com and author of the new book, The Death of the Grown-up: How America's Arrested Development Is Bringing Down Western Civilization.
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Old 05-03-08, 03:51 PM
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Once ethnic nationalism has captured the imagination of groups in a multiethnic society, ethnic disaggregation or partition is often the least bad answer.
Hmm, I think Joe Biden was talking about this 2 years ago.
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Old 05-03-08, 06:31 PM
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Four more today.
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Old 05-03-08, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by bhk
http://www.nypost.com/seven/05022008...130.htm?page=0

I wish this could have been done from the beginning. But at least it is happening now.

I agree.

For those who think the official position is that no one deserves a second chance, I disagree.

There are many who are just out there digging holes for IEDs for spending cash. There are others irreversibly radicalized who should be locked away with the key thrown down a hole in Sparta.
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Old 05-08-08, 04:16 PM
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http://ukpress.google.com/article/AL...o1safvkFq-dohg
Al Qaida leader arrested in Iraq
25 minutes ago

The leader of al Qaida in Iraq, Abu Ayyub al-Masri, has been arrested in the northern city of Mosul, an Iraqi Defence Ministry spokesman has said.

Spokesman Mohammed al-Askari said the arrest of al-Masri, also known as Abu Hamza al-Muhajir, was confirmed to him by the Iraqi commander of the province.

There was no immediate confirmation or comment from US forces on the arrest.

Mr Al-Askari did not say when the al Qaida leader was arrested.

News of the arrest was also reported by Iraqi state television.
Arrested--good.
Killed--better.
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Old 05-08-08, 04:59 PM
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Are people still talking about McCain's "100 year" comment?
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