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Florida lawmakers pass take-your-guns-to-work law

Old 04-09-08, 01:49 PM
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Florida lawmakers pass take-your-guns-to-work law

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080409/...rida_guns_dc_3

By Michael Peltier
1 hour, 35 minutes ago

TALLAHASSEE, Florida (Reuters) - Most Florida residents would be allowed to take guns to work under a measure passed by Florida lawmakers on Wednesday.

The bill, allowing workers to keep guns in their cars for self-protection, was approved by the Florida Senate by a vote of 26-13. It now goes to Republican Gov. Charlie Crist to sign into law.

Backed by the National Rifle Association and some labor unions, the so-called "take-your-guns-to-work" measure would prohibit business owners from banning guns kept locked in motor vehicles on their private property.

The measure applies to employees, customers and those invited to the business establishment as long as they have a permit to carry the weapon.

Backers say the measure upholds the vision of the authors of the U.S. Constitution, who made the right to bear arms part of the Bill of Rights.

"The second thing they wrote about in that constitution was the right to bear arms," said Sen. Durell Peaden, a Republican from Crestview, Florida. "It was what was dear in their hearts."

The measure exempts a number of workplaces including nuclear power plants, prisons, schools and companies whose business involves homeland security. What about Post Offices?

Critics say the measure usurps business owners' rights to determine what happens on their property and puts workers and managers at risk from disgruntled employees.

Dozens of workplace shootings occur every year in the United States and studies have shown that job sites where guns are permitted are more likely to suffer workplace homicides than those where guns are prohibited.

"This is an attempt to trample upon the property rights of property owners and attempt to make it more difficult to protect the workers in a workplace and those who visit our retail establishments," said Sen. Ted Deutch, a Boca Raton Democrat.

Oklahoma, Alaska, Kentucky, and Mississippi have similar laws, although in Oklahoma, an appellate court barred the state from enforcing the legislation on grounds that it was unconstitutional.

Florida business groups are urging the governor to veto the measure, saying owners should be allowed to determine what happens on their property.

"We are disappointed that politics clearly won over good policy," Mark Wilson, president and chief executive of the Florida Chamber of Commerce, said in a statement.

(Editing by Tom Brown and Eric Walsh)

With all of the weird stories coming out of Florida, you would think that this would NEVER be a consideration. I sure wouldn't want this to happen in CA.

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Old 04-09-08, 02:03 PM
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I don't care if people want to bring guns to work or not, but it should be the prerogative of the business owner to control what happens on their own private property.
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Old 04-09-08, 02:05 PM
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"The second thing they wrote about in that constitution was the right to bear arms," said Sen. Durell Peaden, a Republican from Crestview, Florida. "It was what was dear in their hearts."
Fail.
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Old 04-09-08, 02:09 PM
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It saddens me to say this, but I agree with Groucho.


Georgia passed a similar law this year.
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Old 04-09-08, 02:45 PM
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Given how vulernable GPS devices are to smash-and-grabs, I can't imagine how guns are going to be securely locked in cars. This sounds like a great way to put guns in the hands of criminals.
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Old 04-09-08, 02:47 PM
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This sounds like a 'make a statement, but change absolutely nothing in reality' piece of legislation. I'd imagine most people who ride around with a gun in their car, legal or illegal, wouldn't bother with removing it before they go to work just because their boss says it can't be in their car in the parking lot.
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Old 04-09-08, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by mrpayroll

TALLAHASSEE, Florida (Reuters) - Most Florida residents would be allowed to take guns to work under a measure passed by Florida lawmakers on Wednesday...
The journalist is being misleading here. The new law doesnt apply to MOST florida residents--only residents who ALREADY filled the requirements and can already legally carry a firearm on their person in that state. NOT just anyone.

Media bias.
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Old 04-09-08, 03:19 PM
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I thought guns weren't allowed in rooms that serve alcohol? Can the bartender and waiters carry guns with this bill passing?

I can think of plenty of jobs where it'd be safer to carry guns - mostly jobs that require lots of driving like delivery services or late night shifts.
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Old 04-09-08, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Ranger
I thought guns weren't allowed in rooms that serve alcohol? Can the bartender and waiters carry guns with this bill passing?
This particular bill is just about taking guns to work and leaving them in your car.
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Old 04-09-08, 03:22 PM
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Oh, nevermind, this is just for keeping guns licked in cars. Business owner should have right to say what he wants, but I don't think it'll be much use to keep it locked in a car.
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Old 04-09-08, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDude
Given how vulernable GPS devices are to smash-and-grabs, I can't imagine how guns are going to be securely locked in cars. This sounds like a great way to put guns in the hands of criminals.
That is just propaganda....if a criminal wants a gun, they will find a way. I'd rather have citizens who can legally carry have that option at work, then be without when a criminal comes and robs them.
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Old 04-09-08, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Ranger
Oh, nevermind, this is just for keeping guns licked in cars.
I believe that's still illegal.
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Old 04-09-08, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Ranger
Oh, nevermind, this is just for keeping guns licked in cars. Business owner should have right to say what he wants, but I don't think it'll be much use to keep it locked in a car.
We'll probably see more car to car gun battles!

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Old 04-09-08, 04:55 PM
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It's funny how the state saw fit to exempt a whole bunch of government offices from the law while forcing private businesses to sacrifice a property right.
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Old 04-09-08, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Groucho
I don't care if people want to bring guns to work or not, but it should be the prerogative of the business owner to control what happens on their own private property.
And those who are all gung-ho about the government being able to tell bar and restaurant owners they cannot allow smoking in their establishments shouldn't complain about this.
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Old 04-09-08, 07:39 PM
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I'm pretty sure we'd all let smokers lock cigarettes in their car. As long as they don't try to bring them inside.

But, if guns in the cars at private companies is such a good idea, I can't imagine why government would exempt schools, prisons, courts. Those places are dangerous; if anything, there is MORE of a need to run to your car and get your gun. Perhaps they should be required to keep a gun locked in their car. You never know when the British might come again, or some nutjob is shooting students.
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Old 04-09-08, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Groucho
I don't care if people want to bring guns to work or not, but it should be the prerogative of the business owner to control what happens on their own private property.
Yeah, tell that to the mass murderer who's going to show up at your workplace, wanting to kill a few dozen co-workers before he does himself.

Fuck that.

I'd like a chance to fight back, thanks. My desktop neon stapler just won't cut it when it comes to responding to a 9mm or shotgun attack.

Fyi, schools, prisons, courts, are government institutions. Thus, this is a law for non-government businesses and institutions. Not so much about Homeland Security per se, it seems.

And that's why the USPS is not exempt, mrpayroll. They are technically not a government institution.

Many forget, the shooter is going to take a weapon to work anyway. So, a law is pointless for this reason. Now, there could be more potential for guns being stolen at work and all the mess but I would hope gun owners would act responsibly, so this law will not be revoked for stupid behavior.

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Old 04-10-08, 05:17 AM
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I'd like a chance to fight back, thanks. My desktop neon stapler just won't cut it when it comes to responding to a 9mm or shotgun attack.
Too bad you'll never make it to your car. And if you do, I'd question your sanity for going back in.

It's a dumb law. Some people will feel safer, but there will be others who will feel less safe knowing that one of their co-workers could get pissed off and come back in fully loaded within the span of minutes. So really, what is the point of the law? It won't stop office shootings and it won't lead to an increase because those people can easily do it anyways. Sounds like a big waste of time to me.
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Old 04-10-08, 09:47 AM
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While not as safe as having armed law abiding citizens, guns in cars are better than waiting for the police:

Oct. 1, 1997: Pearl, Miss. Sixteen-year-old Luke Woodham stabbed his mother to death, and then drove to Pearl High School where he shot and killed two students and wounded seven more. Assistant Principal Joel Myrick ended Woodham’s murderous rampage by retrieving a .45 caliber handgun from his truck, disarming Woodham and holding him until police arrived.

Jan. 16, 2002: Grundy, Va. Nigerian immigrant Peter Odighizuwa, a disgruntled former student, shot and killed two faculty members and a bystander and wounded three others at the Appalachian School of Law. When students Tracy Bridges and Mikael Gross heard the gunshots, they ran to their vehicles, retrieved their handguns and confronted Odighizuwa. Faced by two armed students, Odighizuwa dropped his weapon and was subdued by a group of students.



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Old 04-10-08, 10:00 AM
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I don't think that those 2 incidents are 'proof' that guns in cars in parking lots would be 'better' than waiting for the police. It's simply proof that it was better in those specific situations.

Regardless, again it's ironic that FL went ahead and exempted state property such as public school above from this state law.
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Old 04-10-08, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDude
Given how vulernable GPS devices are to smash-and-grabs, I can't imagine how guns are going to be securely locked in cars. This sounds like a great way to put guns in the hands of criminals.
difference being the gps units are in plain sight stuck to the windshield with a suction cup, the guns would be locked out of sight
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Old 04-10-08, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Dog
I don't think that those 2 incidents are 'proof' that guns in cars in parking lots would be 'better' than waiting for the police. It's simply proof that it was better in those specific situations.

Regardless, again it's ironic that FL went ahead and exempted state property such as public school above from this state law.
What we need are Gunboxes, right next to fire extinguishers. Break In Case Of Shooting!
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Old 04-11-08, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by movielib
And those who are all gung-ho about the government being able to tell bar and restaurant owners they cannot allow smoking in their establishments shouldn't complain about this.

The first thing that came to my mind when I read this...

"This is an attempt to trample upon the property rights of property owners and attempt to make it more difficult to protect the workers in a workplace and those who visit our retail establishments," said Sen. Ted Deutch, a Boca Raton Democrat."

was, "I wonder how he voted on the smoking ban?"
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Old 04-11-08, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Dog
I don't think that those 2 incidents are 'proof' that guns in cars in parking lots would be 'better' than waiting for the police. It's simply proof that it was better in those specific situations.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's been my understanding that nowhere in the job description of a police office does it say that they HAVE to take a bullet for a member of the public.

And as far as "waiting for the police" is concerned, it's the average response time around 7 minutes?
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Old 04-11-08, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by MartinBlank
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's been my understanding that nowhere in the job description of a police office does it say that they HAVE to take a bullet for a member of the public.

I didn't know that I was making that argument. Thanks for the 411.


And as far as "waiting for the police" is concerned, it's the average response time around 7 minutes?
I have no idea. I'm simply saying you can't point to those examples given, say A-HA, and conclude that it is preferred method of action in all armed gunman situations. Each situation is unique.

I'm not taking a guns (for defense) are bad mm'kay blanket stance.
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