Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

2008 Zimbabwe Elections

Old 04-01-08, 11:31 AM
  #1  
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 36,980
2008 Zimbabwe Elections

The opposition has said they've won but the govt is delaying results.

New reports suggest it'll go to a runoff: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7323667.stm

Might we be getting close to the end of Mugabe? Will he go without a fight?
Venusian is offline  
Old 04-01-08, 11:40 AM
  #2  
Moderator
 
wendersfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Nuova Repubblica di Salò
Posts: 32,342
I wondered if someone would start a thread about this. I was tempted...

<a href = "http://voanews.com/english/Africa/Zimbabwe/2008-03-31-voa51.cfm">Nerves On Edge In Harare As Zimbabwe Election Count Enters Day Three</a>
By Sylvia Manika, Blessing Zulu & Carole Gombakomba

Washington
31 March 2008

Zimbabwe was on tenterhooks Monday evening as electoral authorities continued to compile results of Saturday's national elections at a snail's pace amid rising frustration, skepticism and concern as to the integrity of the counting and electoral process.

The opposition Movement for Democratic Change formation of presidential candidate opposition Morgan Tsvangirai asserted that it had achieved landslide victory over the ruling ZANU-PF party and its leader of 28 years, President Robert Mugabe.

Those claims were comforted late Monday when <b>the Zimbabwe Election Support Network issued its own projections showing Tsvangirai with 49.4% of the presidential vote, Mugabe with 41.8% and independent Simba Makoni with 8.2%. An obscure fourth presidential candidate, Langton Towungana, had a 0.6% share.</b>

ZESN Chairman Noel Kututwa explained his organization's findings to reporter Carole Gombakomba of VOA's Studio 7 for Zimbabwe.

But the ZEC in releasing another batch of results late Monday had ZANU-PF and the Tsvangirai MDC formation more or less neck-and-neck in parliamentary standings with ZANU-PF claiming 31 seats, the Tsvangirai opposition formation taking 30 and the MDC grouping of Arthur Mutambara coming up with five house seats.

But at that point the ZEC had counted fewer than a third of the 210 house races.

The opposition and others in civil society expressed concern that the commission was dragging its feet in issuing results because the numbers would not be good news for President Mugabe and the ruling party, and that the alleged stalling would give the government and ZANU-PF time to rig the final outcome.

By late Monday, more than 48 hours after the polls closed at 7 p.m. on Saturday, the commission had released the results of house races in 66 out of 210 constituencies, showing ZANU-PF with 31 seats, Tsvangirai's MDC formation with 30, and the rival MDC grouping led by Arthur Mutambara with 5 parliamentary seats.

At an earlier stage in the process, Correspondent Sylvia Manika of VOA's Studio 7 for Zimbabwe reported on the scene at the Harare International Conference Center where ZEC officials were tallying votes and slowly announcing results.

Tsvangirai's opposition formation said it would reject the outcome of the elections if President Mugabe were designated the winner. Its own initial projections showed Tsvangirai with 58% compared with 37% for Mr. Mugabe and 5% for Makoni.

Concerned parties in Zimbabwe and abroad urged the electoral commission to speed up the release of results and, as a U.S. official put it, "do the right thing."

Spokesman Nelson Chamisa of Tsvangirai’s MDC grouping told reporter Blessing Zulu of VOA's Studio 7 for Zimbabwe that ZEC is being pressured to rig the ballot.

ZANU-PF spokesman Nathan Shamuyarira declined to address the opposition claims to have scored a major victory, or to speculate on the outcome.

In Washington, U.S. State Department Deputy Spokesman Tom Casey appealed for calm and urged the ZEC to conduct an honest and accurate count of votes.

British Foreign Secretary David Miliband said the voices of Zimbabwean voters must be heard with no further delay. He said Prime Minister Gordon Brown would be on the phone to Southern African leaders, among others, to express British concern.

A spokesman for the European Commission said it would be “opportune” for the electoral commission to publish final election results as soon as possible to demonstrate its independence and avoid unnecessary speculation.

The German government appealed to authorities in Zimbabwe to ensure vote counting was concluded speedily, transparently and properly.
wendersfan is offline  
Old 04-01-08, 12:20 PM
  #3  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
The Bus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 54,819
Begin reading after the first bolded part for the crux of the article

<img src="http://media.economist.com/images/economist_logo.png">

By hook or by crook in Zimbabwe?
Results are delayed amid rigging claims


Mar 30th 2008 | JOHANNESBURG

DESPERATE to avoid having a victory stolen from them, again, the leaders of Zimbabwe’s opposition, the Movement for Democratic Change (MDC), have declared themselves the winners of general elections held on Saturday March 29th. Their declaration may well be justified, but it is premature and likely to be overruled.

The MDC says that its leader and presidential candidate, Morgan Tsvangirai, was ahead in the race for the presidency. The MDC has tallied results that were posted outside polling stations in some parts of the country, especially in the urban areas where the opposition is strong. The party claims that it did similarly well in the parliamentary election, for example bagging most of the seats in Harare and Bulawayo, the country’s two main cities. A rival opposition movement led by a former ally of President Robert Mugabe, Simba Makoni, whose impact appears to have been limited on the presidential race, also suggests that the MDC has “swept the board”, in the parliamentary elections at least.

But those running Zimbabwe’s elections have allowed a long delay before declaring the official outcome. Results are yet to be announced from some parts of the rural areas and, it is widely assumed, officials loyal to the ruling ZANU-PF party of Mr Mugabe are arranging some way to keep their man in office. The opposition claims are based on partial results, mainly from towns. The few results from the countryside, where the ruling party usually dominates, suggest that the outcome will be much closer. Officials have given warning to the opposition not to jump the gun. The government’s main spokesman, George Charamba, has compared the MDC’s claims of victory to a “coup”.

The voting was not without problems. Some complained of being turned away from polling stations at schools, marquees and community halls because of irregularities on the voters’ roll. The MDC said that its official observers were sometimes denied entry to polling stations. Concern about intimidation arose because policemen, for the first time, were deployed inside polling stations. But one fear, that voters in densely-populated opposition strongholds would not have time to cast ballots, seemed unfounded. In some places determined voters had started queuing the night before to be ready to cast ballots from 7am, but long lines that were apparent in the morning had largely dissipated by the afternoon.

Another worry, that “ghost” voters would inflate support for Mr Mugabe and the ruling party, seemed more justified. About 5.9m voters were registered in about 9,000 polling stations, some in remote or sparsely-populated areas that were hard for the opposition or monitors to visit. Western journalists and observers were barred from the country, but African monitors raised concerns over irregularities in the voters’ roll: in Harare for example, about 8,500 voters were registered with addresses that turned out to be vacant land. The opposition complained that 3m extra ballot papers had been printed. As was typical in other rigged elections in Zimbabwe, rivals to Mr Mugabe were only handed the voters’ roll just before election day.

It is in the counting and tallying, however, that most feared that rigging would take place. After voting closed on Saturday the counting began at polling stations, with some officials working by candlelight or kerosene lamps. Official results, however, were to be announced centrally—leaving officials scope to tamper with the overall score to favour Mr Mugabe. The opposition suggests that delays are a sign that results from polling stations, especially in remote areas, are being massaged as they are collated centrally.

The army and the police are also on the streets and have given warning that any violence would not be tolerated. In any case Mr Mugabe says he is confident of another victory and he has dismissed accusations of rigging. “Why should I cheat? The people are there supporting us, day in, day out,” he says. Ahead of the poll, he was in a generous mood, distributing tractors and ploughs in rural areas. It seems most unlikely that a majority voters would want to keep Mr Mugabe as their president, given the country’s economic collapse, plummeting life expectancy and mass emigration. Rough opinion polls organised in the weeks before the election suggested that, if all were free and fair, Mr Tsvangirai should have won, with Mr Mugabe second and Mr Makoni a distant third. If none were to get more than 50% in the first round, a second round would be held. Whether the official results come anywhere close to that suggested reality, however, remains to be seen.

http://www.economist.com/daily/news/...ry_id=10945369

<hr>

I remember hearing that Mugabe made MDC supporters take down campaign posters and eat them.

Yes, eat them.
The Bus is offline  
Old 04-01-08, 12:38 PM
  #4  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Th0r S1mpson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 36,443
[stereotypical American]Zim-bab-what? [/stereotypical American]

Originally Posted by The Bus
I remember hearing that Mugabe made MDC supporters take down campaign posters and eat them.
I am opposed to that and think he should apologize.

Last edited by Th0r S1mpson; 04-01-08 at 12:58 PM.
Th0r S1mpson is offline  
Old 04-01-08, 01:17 PM
  #5  
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 36,980
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/7325286.stm

Deal in the works for him to step down?
Venusian is offline  
Old 04-01-08, 02:41 PM
  #6  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Nick Danger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 21,671
I'm not sure why people are treating this election as if it were important.

Mugabe is going to win, no matter how the people vote. Neither article gives much play to the army, so they probably support Mugabe. They certainly aren't getting quoted as supporting whoever wins the election.

The aftermath will be important. After they lose, will the opposition start gathering troops?
Nick Danger is offline  
Old 04-01-08, 08:03 PM
  #7  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
DVD Polizei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 52,177
Originally Posted by The Bus

<hr>

I remember hearing that Mugabe made MDC supporters take down campaign posters and eat them.

Yes, eat them.
Yeah, but that was a new Mugabe Recycling plan which was offered to his people to reduce waste, thought up by the sister city of Portland, Oregon.
DVD Polizei is offline  
Old 04-01-08, 08:04 PM
  #8  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
DVD Polizei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 52,177
Originally Posted by Nick Danger
I'm not sure why people are treating this election as if it were important.

Mugabe is going to win, no matter how the people vote. Neither article gives much play to the army, so they probably support Mugabe. They certainly aren't getting quoted as supporting whoever wins the election.

The aftermath will be important. After they lose, will the opposition start gathering troops?
Well, it gives those text editors something new to write on the screen tickers of CNN, FOX, and MSNBC.
DVD Polizei is offline  
Old 04-01-08, 08:26 PM
  #9  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Th0r S1mpson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 36,443
Originally Posted by Nick Danger
I'm not sure why people are treating this election as if it were important.
I'm just here to show off my foreign policy experience.
Th0r S1mpson is offline  
Old 04-01-08, 08:28 PM
  #10  
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: In mourning
Posts: 26,218
Originally Posted by Nick Danger
I'm not sure why people are treating this election as if it were important.

Mugabe is going to win, no matter how the people vote. Neither article gives much play to the army, so they probably support Mugabe. They certainly aren't getting quoted as supporting whoever wins the election.

The aftermath will be important. After they lose, will the opposition start gathering troops?



Just as the changing of leaders in the FSU was thought impossible, Mugabe is on his way out, possibly as soon as tomorrow. And if the fix is in, brace for countless unnecessary deaths in the coming weeks.



Maybe, just maybe, Harare will now once again be clean enough to stay for awhile.
Pharoh is offline  
Old 04-01-08, 09:01 PM
  #11  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
DVD Polizei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 52,177
Anyone know a company that supplies Machetes to poverished countries? I'm gonna invest.
DVD Polizei is offline  
Old 04-01-08, 09:16 PM
  #12  
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: In mourning
Posts: 26,218
Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
Anyone know a company that supplies Machetes to poverished countries? I'm gonna invest.


Why, you like to lose your money?
Pharoh is offline  
Old 04-03-08, 03:53 PM
  #13  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Nick Danger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 21,671
Zimbabwe opposition offices raided
By ANGUS SHAW, Associated Press Writer
32 minutes ago

HARARE, Zimbabwe - President Robert Mugabe's government raided the offices of the main opposition movement and rounded up foreign journalists Thursday in an ominous indication that he may use intimidation and violence to keep his grip on power.

ADVERTISEMENT

Police raided a hotel used by the opposition Movement for Democratic Change and ransacked some of the rooms. Riot police also surrounded another hotel housing foreign journalists and took away several of them, according to a man who answered the phone there.

"Mugabe has started a crackdown," Movement for Democratic Change secretary-general Tendai Biti told The Associated Press. "It is quite clear he has unleashed a war."

The New York Times said that its correspondent Barry Bearak was taken into custody by police.

"We do not know where he is being held, or what, if any, charges have been made against him," said Bill Keller, executive editor of the Times. "We are making every effort to ascertain his status, to assure that he is safe and being well treated, and to secure his prompt release."

Biti said the raid at the Meikles Hotel targeted "certain people ... including myself." Opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai was "safe" but had canceled plans for a news conference, Biti said.

He said that Thursday's clampdown was a sign of worse to follow but that the opposition would not go into hiding.

"You can't hide away from fascism. Zimbabwe is a small country. So we are not going into hiding. We are just going to have to be extra cautious," he said.

While the election commission has issued results for the parliamentary races held Saturday alongside the presidential race, it has yet to release any presidential count. A presidential candidate needs at least 50 percent plus one vote to avoid a runoff, which would have to be held within 21 days of the first round.

The opposition says that Tsvangirai won the presidential race outright, but says it is would take part in a runoff.

Mugabe's Deputy Information Minister Bright Matonga said Thursday that Mugabe was ready for a runoff, dashing hopes that he would bow quietly off the national stage he has dominated for 28 years.

"President Mugabe is going to fight. He is not going anywhere. He has not lost," Matonga said on the British Broadcasting Corp. "We are going to go hard and fight and get the majority required."

The 84-year-old Mugabe was shown on state television Thursday meeting African Union election observers, his first public appearance since the elections.

Matonga accused the opposition of trying "to get rid of President Mugabe at all costs and that is what we are going to fight."

"This election campaign was not a campaign for democracy but a campaign for regime change," he said, going on to say that the opposition was sponsored by the West. He said ZANU-PF would go back and "regroup" and campaign "very vigorously in "a very peaceful manner."

International concern mounted about the continuing delays.

"We still have not seen the important thing, which is real live election results," said State Department spokesman Tom Casey. "We need to see an official tally, see it soon and have assurances made that this is actually a correct counting of the votes."

"Delays raise serious questions in our minds about what is going on in the vote counting," he said.

Former U.N. chief Kofi Annan said the continuing delays were dangerous. He urged the government and the electoral commission to scrupulously observe the electoral law and "to declare the election results faithfully and accurately."

"We live in an open world today and indeed the eyes of the world are on Zimbabwe, on its Electoral Commission, on its President. I urge them to do the right thing, to respect the Constitution and to obey the electoral laws. The election results should be released now," he said.

Mugabe has ruled since his guerrilla army helped force an end to white minority rule in then-Rhodesia and bring about an independent Zimbabwe in 1980.

He ordered the often-violent seizures of white-owned commercial farms, ostensibly to return them to the landless black majority. Instead, Mugabe replaced a white elite with a black one, giving the farms to relatives, friends and cronies who allowed cultivated fields to be taken over by weeds.

Today, a third of the population depends on imported food handouts. Another third has fled the country and 80 percent is jobless. Inflation is the highest in the world at more than 100,000 percent and people suffer crippling shortages of food, water, electricity, fuel and medicine. Life expectancy has fallen from 60 to 35 years.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080403/...abwe_elections

Seems to me that by the time someone is arresting foreign journalists, he's going for broke.
Nick Danger is offline  
Old 06-24-08, 11:31 AM
  #14  
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 36,980
http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/mugabes...YIJYiaceWs0NUE

Elections are over before they start. The UN Sec Council passed a resolution.
Venusian is offline  
Old 06-24-08, 11:45 AM
  #15  
DVD Talk God
 
kvrdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 86,200
That just sucks.
kvrdave is offline  
Old 06-24-08, 12:07 PM
  #16  
Moderator
 
wendersfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Nuova Repubblica di Salò
Posts: 32,342
Originally Posted by kvrdave
That just sucks.
Yeah, it sure does. Mugabe basically just beat the opposition supporters into submission until his opponent had no choice but to back down.

[Cultural elitist]Some places just aren't ready for democracy, I suppose.[/Cultural elitist]
wendersfan is offline  
Old 06-24-08, 02:23 PM
  #17  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Belton, MO
Posts: 565
Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
Anyone know a company that supplies Machetes to poverished countries? I'm gonna invest.
That's real funny thing to say. My uncle was in Zimbabwe back in the 80's and witnessed his friends being slaughtered with machetes. Mugabe needs to be over thrown or killed.
JWAR is offline  
Old 06-24-08, 05:30 PM
  #18  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Where the sky is always Carolina Blue! (Currently VA - again...)
Posts: 5,167
I'm still interested because some stories say that Mugabe wants to go ahead with the "runoff" even though Tsivangirai's stepped out. It'd be really interesting if they actually ended up with a "people power" vote - although it might not matter in the short run.
Tuan Jim is offline  
Old 06-24-08, 05:33 PM
  #19  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 20,684
Originally Posted by kvrdave
That just sucks.
Yep.

Looks like our best hope is waiting for the guy to either die or be held at gunpoint by Nicole Kidman.
Ranger is offline  
Old 06-30-08, 01:28 PM
  #20  
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 36,980
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...S&attr=2015164

A baby boy had both legs broken by supporters of President Robert Mugabe to punish his father for being an opposition councillor in Zimbabwe.

Blessing Mabhena, aged 11 months, was seized from a bed and flung down with force as his mother, Agnes, hid from the thugs, convinced that they were about to murder her.

She heard one of them say, “Let’s kill the baby”, before Blessing was hurled on to a bare concrete floor.

Blessing, who may never be able to walk properly, was one of the youngest victims of atrocities against the opposition party Movement for Democratic Change in the run-up to last Friday’s sham presidential election.
Venusian is offline  
Old 06-30-08, 09:16 PM
  #21  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Parts, Unknown
Posts: 1,137
Zimbabwe: Sam Francis was right (3)

Posted By Patrick Cleburne On 22 June 2008

So Robert Mugabe has won the Zimbabwean election by his traditional methods: violent intimidation and murder.

Opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai pulled out of Zimbabwe’s violence-wracked presidential runoff Sunday, declaring the election was no longer credible and the loss of life among his supporters was simply too high.

The announcement cleared the way for President Robert Mugabe to continue his 28-year rule, despite mounting condemnation from even loyal African allies that the former independence hero has become a despot who has bankrupted the country’s once thriving economy.

([1] Zimbabwe opposition leader pulling out of election By Angus Shaw Associated Press June 22, 2008)

An interesting feature of today’s news coverage is how much more explicit the non-US Anglophone press is about the [2] actual details of the violence than the American. An honorable exception is today’s Los Angeles Times;

[3] New wave of attacks on Zimbabwe opposition ratchets up the death toll By A Times Staff Writer June 22 2008

The pair saw their three colleagues and an unknown passerby being taken away to a makeshift militia camp where victims are interrogated and beaten. The location: the local kindergarten. The mob then looted and gas-bombed the house.

“The house was in flames. They started celebrating,” Chipiyo said.

The body of one of the activists was found the next day, his genitals cut off. Archiford’s body turned up two days later with a gunshot wound to the head, witnesses said. The body of a third activist had an ax wound in the skull.

The fourth person was in critical condition in a hospital.

Zimbabwe was of particular concern to our late stalwart, Sam Francis, who pertinently asked six years ago “[4] What Did We Expect?” As I noted [5] last year

Sam was one of a handful engaged in skirmishes in Washington (the disparity of forces was such they could hardly be called battles) in the early 1970s attempting to gain a hearing for the point of view of [6] Ian Smith, the leader of the then Rhodesia. Smith argued that the likes of [7] Mugabe, the current Zimbabwean President, were not suitable to rule the country, then one of the most prosperous in Africa.

The forces of Political Corrctness won, of course, in no small measure by [8] white self hate in the Northern Hemisphere, and hundreds of thousands of lives have been ruined as a result. Sam was right, conventional opinion wrong – although [9] very unwilling to admit it. Unlike his opponents, Sam continued his [10] interest in the unfortunate country.

Things are now so bad in Zimbabwe that some of the Smith regime’s most dedicated opponents have recanted. Last year Judith Todd, the prominent white liberal who in her youth was a kind of [11] pin up girl for enemies of [6] Ian Smith’s attempt to win independence for the country with white rule, [12] was asked:

But hasn’t what happened fully justified Ian Smith and the white racists who predicted that black rule would mean dictatorship, corruption and chaos?

and replied

“You have to say they called it right…Smith did love the country which was why he gave way rather than see it destroyed. Mugabe is destroying it rather than give way”.

The nice thing about black rule is that it gives a lot of credulous people a bracing drenching in [13] reality.

Bring on [14] President Obama!
http://blog.vdare.com/archives/2008/...right-3/print/ for the footnotes
Xytraguptorh is offline  
Old 06-30-08, 09:22 PM
  #22  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
The Bus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 54,819
Yes, Zimbabwe is in trouble because Robert Mugabe is black, not because he's a failure of a human being. And comparing Mugabe to Senator Obama? Give me a fucking break.

Your post is reported.
The Bus is offline  
Old 06-30-08, 09:28 PM
  #23  
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 36,980
wow that is some crap. does anyone actually buy that?
Venusian is offline  
Old 06-30-08, 09:33 PM
  #24  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
The Bus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 54,819
Originally Posted by Venusian
wow that is some crap. does anyone actually buy that?
Xytraguptorh does, apparently.
The Bus is offline  
Old 06-30-08, 09:44 PM
  #25  
Moderator
 
nemein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: 1bit away from total disaster
Posts: 34,128
Originally Posted by The Bus
Xytraguptorh does, apparently.

Are you sure? I mean did he write it or was he just posting something someone else wrote? W/O posting a comment we really don't know one way or the other what Xytraguptorh had in mind. That's why it's important to add comments and not just post a link and an article.
nemein is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.