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The 13th '08 Presidential Election thread

Old 03-27-08, 05:51 AM
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The 13th '08 Presidential Election thread

Continued from here http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=527296

Last edited by nemein; 03-27-08 at 09:30 AM.
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Old 03-27-08, 07:28 AM
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Let's see... I believe we left off with Obama's (not-so) charitable giving habits, Hillary being a slime ball, and the obvious fact that pledged delegates aren't really "pledged" at all so they should do the obvious thing and vote for the least popular candidate. There was something about McCain too, but really none of that will matter for at least another Election Thread cycle.

My prediction: We will not have a Democratic Party nominee before this thread is closed. If we're lucky, we may not even have a Democratic Party.

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Old 03-27-08, 07:55 AM
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Historical perspective from David Greenberg.
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Old 03-27-08, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Thor Simpson
My prediction: We will not have a Democratic Party nominee before this thread is closed. If we're lucky, we may not even have a Democratic Party.
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Old 03-27-08, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Thor Simpson
If we're lucky, we may not even have a Democratic Party.


.and a GOP.
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Old 03-27-08, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by dork
Historical perspective from David Greenberg.
Yet, in contrast to this "doughface" liberalism, as Arthur Schlesinger famously termed it, another liberal tradition also exists. Under Franklin Roosevelt, wrote Schlesinger, "American liberalism ... had a positive and confident ring. It has stood for responsibility and for achievement." FDR and the New Deal's lieutenants respected fair play and fair procedures, but they put results first. They understood that politics is, inherently, a field of combat, not for the faint-hearted. John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, and Robert Kennedy--then whom no one was called "ruthless" more often--grasped the importance of confidently using power for progressive ends. They knew that vanquishing adversaries is essential to winning elections, implementing policies, and improving people's lives. No liberal should excuse the occasions when these men crossed inviolable lines, but none should forget either that the raft of legislation that Washington produced in the 1960s was not a product of chummy bipartisan committees and painless consensus-building.
Good article!

Although I don't agree with liberal legislation, I agree with the bolded completely. Perhaps it's why I prefer principle over party. I want someone who will FIGHT for what they (and I) believe is right. I think the politically correctness of the world today has softened people's appetite for the combat of politics.

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Old 03-27-08, 08:51 AM
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Clinton donors warn Pelosi over superdelegates
Prominent backers demand retraction of comments that may help Obama

Reuters
March. 27, 2008

WASHINGTON - A group of prominent Hillary Clinton donors sent a letter to House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Wednesday asking her to retract her comments on superdelegates and stay out of the Democratic fight over their role in the presidential race.

The 20 prominent Clinton supporters told Pelosi she should "clarify" recent statements to make it clear superdelegates — nearly 800 party insiders and elected officials who are free to back any candidate — could support the candidate they think would be the best nominee.

Pelosi has not publicly endorsed either Clinton or Barack Obama in their hotly contested White House battle, but she recently said superdelegates should support whoever emerges from the nomination contests with the most pledged delegates — which appears almost certain to be Obama.

"This is an untenable position that runs counter to the party's intent in establishing superdelegates in 1984," the letter from the wealthy Clinton backers said.

"Superdelegates, like all delegates, have an obligation to make an informed, individual decision about whom to support and who would be the party's strongest nominee," said the letter signed by some of Clinton's biggest fundraisers.

Potential kingmakers
Superdelegates have emerged as likely kingmakers in the fight between Clinton and Obama. The letter was another sign of growing Democratic tension over their nominating battle.

Neither candidate is expected to have enough pledged delegates won in state-by-state contests to clinch the nomination when voting ends in June, leaving the choice in the hands of the superdelegates.

Both candidates have wooed them heavily, with Obama contending they should follow the will of Democratic voters and Clinton arguing they should vote for the candidate with the best chance of winning the presidential election in November — which she says is her.

Among the signees of the letter were prominent Democrats and Clinton supporters like Robert Johnson, founder of Black Entertainment Television; Bernard Schwartz, former chairman of Loral Space and Communications; and venture capitalist Steven Rattner.

The signees reminded the House leader from California of their support for the party's House campaign committee and said "therefore" she should "reflect in your comments a more open view" about superdelegates.

"We appreciate your activities in support of the Democratic Party and your leadership role in the party and hope you will be responsive to some of your major enthusiastic supporters," the letter said.

Letter branded 'inappropriate'
The Obama campaign said the Illinois senator would support the election efforts of House Democrats no matter what the outcome of the nomination fight.

"This letter is inappropriate and we hope the Clinton campaign will reject the insinuation contained in it," Obama spokesman Bill Burton said.

Clinton spokesman Phil Singer said Clinton had made the case superdelegates should exercise independent judgment about who would be the best for the party and the country.

"Few have done more to build the Democratic Party than Bill and Hillary Clinton. The last thing they need is a lecture from the Obama campaign," he said.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23823483/

The cosmic ballet continues...
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Old 03-27-08, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Red Dog
.and a GOP.
I am going Whigs.
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Old 03-27-08, 09:13 AM
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Clinton still has prominent donors? Why is her campaign nearly out of money?
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Old 03-27-08, 09:19 AM
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The irony of this election cycle:

John McCain wins the nomination by early March, but is hated by his party. Hillary & Obama are loved by their bases of the democratic party, yet they will probably go to the convention without the needed delegates, and proabably anarchy will ensue cause one side will feel they are getting gipped.

John McCains acceptance speech on January 20, 2009, "I consider myself the luckiest man on the face of this earth."
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Old 03-27-08, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by orangecrush18
I am going Whigs.
You aren't alone:

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wi...,3572472.story
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Old 03-27-08, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by mosquitobite
Good article!

Although I don't agree with liberal legislation, I agree with the bolded completely. Perhaps it's why I prefer principle over party. I want someone who will FIGHT for what they (and I) believe is right. I think the politically correctness of the world today has softened people's appetite for the combat of politics.
Not in my opinion. What has softened people's appetite for the combat of politics is a growing realization that the so-called principles of politicians and parties are nothing more than neatly packaged arguments to mask their own hidden agendas.

...that what politicians say they believe in are not truly held beliefs, but spin that will make them look good to their constituents.

So it comes down to, "why fight over an issue when neither side really believes in what they're saying?"

You can't have real principles without integrity. And there is no integrity in the US political system.
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Old 03-27-08, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by coli
John McCain wins the nomination by early March, but is hated by his party.
You paid far too much attention to the "conservative" tissy about McCain. A great many Republicans favor him.
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Old 03-27-08, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Thor Simpson
You paid far too much attention to the "conservative" tissy about McCain. A great many Republicans favor him.
And how many enthusiastically support him?


Yeah... that's what I thought
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Old 03-27-08, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by sracer
You can't have real principles without integrity. And there is no integrity in the US political system.
I agree. Too many politicians are about power and for go their principles to achieve it.
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Old 03-27-08, 10:07 AM
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Well Bush is doing his part for the GOP.

The Washington Times reports that he has raised $30 million for the GOP this year.

Bush may be a 'political' liability for the Repubs, but he, at least, partially makes up for it in his ability to solicit money.
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Old 03-27-08, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by classicman2
Well Bush is doing his part for the GOP.

The Washington Times reports that he has raised $30 million for the GOP this year.

Bush may be a 'political' liability for the Repubs, but he, at least, partially makes up for it in his ability to solicit money.
And the dem superdelegates will also do their part for the GOP when they select the candidate.
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Old 03-27-08, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by mosquitobite
And how many enthusiastically support him?


Yeah... that's what I thought
Voting's pretty binary, however. It doesn't count extra if you push down the lever with great enthusiasm.
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Old 03-27-08, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
Clinton still has prominent donors? Why is her campaign nearly out of money?
Her big money donors are all maxed out -- remember, you can only donate $2300 for the primaries and $2300 for the general election to any particular candidate. Their real influence is in soft money, which is unlimitted.
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Old 03-27-08, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
Voting's pretty binary, however. It doesn't count extra if you push down the lever with great enthusiasm.
If you consider that everyone is clearly R or D and already has their mind up, then yes I think you're right. If instead you consider that enthusiastic supporters canvass for free, wear campaign materials, post signs, etc - I'd say enthusiasm matters as well towards the end result.
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Old 03-27-08, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by classicman2
Well Bush is doing his part for the GOP.

The Washington Times reports that he has raised $30 million for the GOP this year.
What a coincidence -- Senator Obama raised $30 million this year. And by "this year," I really mean "in January." Then he raised another $50 million in February. I wonder what his March numbers will be?
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Old 03-27-08, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
Voting's pretty binary, however. It doesn't count extra if you push down the lever with great enthusiasm.
It does take a caertain amount of enthusiasm to drag yourself to the voting booth, though. There will be certain people who are unenthusiastic about Senator McCain, but feel strongly enough about making sure his opponent doesn't win that they will find the necessary enthusiasm to vote for Senator McCain. But there will also be certain people who will say that Senator McCain is no different from the Democratic nominee and will stay home.
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Old 03-27-08, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
Voting's pretty binary, however. It doesn't count extra if you push down the lever with great enthusiasm.
Enthusiastic voters are likely to help any one candidate regarding views of public opinion, donations, drives, "getting the word out" etc.

Unless you're a Ron Paul supporter. Then you're just really fucking tiresome.
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Old 03-27-08, 10:58 AM
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Clinton donors warn Pelosi over superdelegates
Prominent backers demand retraction of comments that may help Obama
I saw this crew referred to elsewhere on the intertubes as "$uperdelegates".
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Old 03-27-08, 11:09 AM
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Do they work for Di$ney, or George Luca$?
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