Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

2008 Presidential Election part XII

Old 03-13-08, 12:52 PM
  #1  
Admin-Thanos
Thread Starter
 
VinVega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Caught between the moon and NYC
Posts: 31,090
2008 Presidential Election part XII

Continued from Part 11

Please continue.
VinVega is offline  
Old 03-13-08, 01:04 PM
  #2  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Brent L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Upstate, SC
Posts: 13,617
As I posted in the last thread, this will certainly do great things for Obama:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4443788&page=1

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zWvxTUy47Fk&rel=1&border=0"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zWvxTUy47Fk&rel=1&border=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent"width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hAYe7MT5BxM&rel=1&border=0"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hAYe7MT5BxM&rel=1&border=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent"width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

If the Ferraro deal was bad news for Clinton, then this is about, oh, a thousand times worse for Obama. Sure, this guy isn't officially working for Obama's campaign while Ferraro was working for Clinton, but that does not matter a single bit here. Perhaps it technically does, but most people who see and hear all of this will not care if he is officially working for Obama or not.

Unless Obama totally distances himself from this "preacher", and I mean totally, then this will not go away for him. Also, like I said, eve if he does do that, this will still damage Obama in the eyes of many people and it doesn't matter if you think that they should feel that way or not.
Brent L is offline  
Old 03-13-08, 01:11 PM
  #3  
DVD Talk Hero
 
JasonF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 39,124
As I posted in the last thread:

As long as we're talking about people's pastors:


Quote:
McCain's Spiritual Guide: Destroy Islam

Washington Dispatch: Televangelist Rod Parsley, a key McCain ally in Ohio, has called for eradicating the "false religion." Will the GOP presidential candidate renounce him?

By David Corn

March 12, 2008

Senator John McCain hailed as a spiritual adviser an Ohio megachurch pastor who has called upon Christians to wage a "war" against the "false religion" of Islam with the aim of destroying it.

On February 26, McCain appeared at a campaign rally in Cincinnati with the Reverend Rod Parsley of the World Harvest Church of Columbus, a supersize Pentecostal institution that features a 5,200-seat sanctuary, a television studio (where Parsley tapes a weekly show), and a 122,000-square-foot Ministry Activity Center. That day, a week before the Ohio primary, Parsley praised the Republican presidential front-runner as a "strong, true, consistent conservative." The endorsement was important for McCain, who at the time was trying to put an end to the lingering challenge from former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee, a favorite among Christian evangelicals. A politically influential figure in Ohio, Parsley could also play a key role in McCain's effort to win this bellwether state in the general election. McCain, with Parsley by his side at the Cincinnati rally, called the evangelical minister a "spiritual guide."

The leader of a 12,000-member congregation, Parsley has written several books outlining his fundamentalist religious outlook, including the 2005 Silent No More. In this work, Parsley decries the "spiritual desperation" of the United States, and he blasts away at the usual suspects: activist judges, civil libertarians who advocate the separation of church and state, the homosexual "culture" ("homosexuals are anything but happy and carefree"), the "abortion industry," and the crass and profane entertainment industry. And Parsley targets another profound threat to the United States: the religion of Islam.

In a chapter titled "Islam: The Deception of Allah," Parsley warns there is a "war between Islam and Christian civilization." He continues:


I cannot tell you how important it is that we understand the true nature of Islam, that we see it for what it really is. In fact, I will tell you this: I do not believe our country can truly fulfill its divine purpose until we understand our historical conflict with Islam. I know that this statement sounds extreme, but I do not shrink from its implications. The fact is that America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed, and I believe September 11, 2001, was a generational call to arms that we can no longer ignore.

Parsley is not shy about his desire to obliterate Islam. In Silent No More, he notes—approvingly—that Christopher Columbus shared the same goal: "It was to defeat Islam, among other dreams, that Christopher Columbus sailed to the New World in 1492…Columbus dreamed of defeating the armies of Islam with the armies of Europe made mighty by the wealth of the New World. It was this dream that, in part, began America." He urges his readers to realize that a confrontation between Christianity and Islam is unavoidable: "We find now we have no choice. The time has come." And he has bad news: "We may already be losing the battle. As I scan the world, I find that Islam is responsible for more pain, more bloodshed, and more devastation than nearly any other force on earth at this moment."

Parsley claims that Islam is an "anti-Christ religion" predicated on "deception." The Muslim prophet Muhammad, he writes, "received revelations from demons and not from the true God." And he emphasizes this point: "Allah was a demon spirit." Parsley does not differentiate between violent Islamic extremists and other followers of the religion:


There are some, of course, who will say that the violence I cite is the exception and not the rule. I beg to differ. I will counter, respectfully, that what some call "extremists" are instead mainstream believers who are drawing from the well at the very heart of Islam.

The spirit of Islam, he maintains, is one of hostility. He asserts that the religion "inspired" the 9/11 attacks. He bemoans the fact that in the years after 9/11, 34,000 Americans "have become Muslim" and that there are "some 1,209 mosques" in America. Islam, he declares, is a "faith that fully intends to conquer the world" through violence. The United States, he insists, "has historically understood herself as a bastion against Islam," but "history is crashing in upon us."

At the end of his chapter on Islam, Parsley asks, "Are we a Christian nation? I say yes." Without specifying what actions should be taken to eradicate the religion, he essentially calls for a new crusade.

Parsley, who refers to himself as a "Christocrat," is no stranger to controversy. In 2007, the grassroots organization he founded, the Center for Moral Clarity, called for prosecuting people who commit adultery. In January, he compared Planned Parenthood to Nazis. In the past Parsley's church has been accused of engaging in pro-Republican partisan activities in violation of its tax-exempt status.

Why would McCain court Parsley? He has long had trouble figuring out how to deal with Christian fundamentalists, an important bloc for the Republican Party. During his 2000 presidential bid, he referred to Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell as "agents of intolerance." But six years later, as he readied himself for another White House run, McCain repudiated that remark. More recently, his campaign hit a rough patch when he accepted the endorsement of the Reverend John Hagee, a Texas televangelist who has called the Catholic Church "the great whore" and a "false cult system." After the Catholic League protested and called on McCain to renounce Hagee's support, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee praised Hagee's spiritual leadership and support of Israel and said that "when [Hagee] endorses me, it does not mean that I embrace everything that he stands for or believes in." After being further criticized for his Hagee connection, McCain backed off slightly, saying, "I repudiate any comments that are made, including Pastor Hagee's, if they are anti-Catholic or offensive to Catholics." But McCain did not renounce Hagee's endorsement.

McCain's relationship with Parsley is politically significant. In 2004, Parsley's church was credited with driving Christian fundamentalist voters to the polls for George W. Bush. With Ohio expected to again be a decisive state in the presidential contest, Parsley's World Harvest Church and an affiliated entity called Reformation Ohio, which registers voters, could be important players within this battleground state. Considering that the Ohio Republican Party has been decimated by various political scandals and that a popular Democrat, Ted Strickland, is now the state's governor, McCain and the Republicans will need all the help they can get in the Buckeye State this fall. It's a real question: Can McCain win the presidency without Parsley?

The McCain campaign did not respond to a request for comment regarding Parsley and his anti-Islam writings. Parsley did not return a call seeking comment.

"The last thing I want to be is another screaming voice moving people to extremes and provoking them to folly in the name of patriotism," Parsley writes in Silent No More. Provoking people to holy war is another matter. About that, McCain so far is silent.
http://www.motherjones.com/washingto...ual-guide.html

Who will be the next contestant on "I've Got the Most Offensive Preacher?"
JasonF is offline  
Old 03-13-08, 01:23 PM
  #4  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 25,062
Originally Posted by JasonF
Who will be the next contestant on "I've Got the Most Offensive Preacher?"
Come on, Clinton. Convert to Scientology!
Tracer Bullet is offline  
Old 03-13-08, 01:48 PM
  #5  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 9,437
The difference Jason is that Obama is by all acounts, a pretty close friend and member of his church. (anyone know how long he's been a member?) To continue going to and participating in a church for years means there has to be a level of acceptance and agreement with it's principles, it doesn't have to be 100% but certainly enough to invest your time and money in.

Big difference between that and receiving an endorsement.
Artman is offline  
Old 03-13-08, 01:54 PM
  #6  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Th0r S1mpson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 36,443
That settles it. I'm not voting for Obama now. I'm also not going to punch myself in the nuts. It was a tough call, but this made the decision easier.
Th0r S1mpson is offline  
Old 03-13-08, 02:04 PM
  #7  
DVD Talk Hero
 
JasonF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 39,124
Originally Posted by Artman
The difference Jason is that Obama is by all acounts, a pretty close friend and member of his church. (anyone know how long he's been a member?) To continue going to and participating in a church for years means there has to be a level of acceptance and agreement with it's principles, it doesn't have to be 100% but certainly enough to invest your time and money in.

Big difference between that and receiving an endorsement.
Senator Obama's been a member of that church for about 15 years.

Do you agree with everything your pastor says? Every sermon he preaches?
JasonF is offline  
Old 03-13-08, 02:13 PM
  #8  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 36,980
I don't agree with everything my pastor preaches. But that isn't going to stop the press from bashing Obama for this ... assuming the press turns on him
Venusian is offline  
Old 03-13-08, 02:25 PM
  #9  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Brent L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Upstate, SC
Posts: 13,617
JasonF, I'm sorry, but you're really reaching to make this not seem like that big of a deal. I'm not even saying it's a huge deal to me, although I admit that it will lessen my opinion of Obama if he doesn't totally, 100%, denounce this guy. I'm just saying that this is going to mean a lot to a lot of people.

I mean, some people don't want to vote for Obama simply because he's black, or because of his middle name, or because of his wife's statements, and so on. Now I know those are pretty weak reasons not to vote for the guy, but that's true for many people. If some people wont vote for him because of such simple things, just imagine what this will do for those who were on the fence about voting for him.

Obama has defended this guy more than once in the past. He obviosuly hasn't said that he agrees with him, but he has still stood up for him. Trying to just laugh it off by saying that the guy is like a silly uncle that says things that embarrasses you, and so on. Obama has donated thousands of dollars to the church.

It will be interesting to see what comes of this over the days, weeks, and months.

I don't agree with everything my pastor says either, I doubt anyone does unless they're a complete and total sheep, but this is different. How many of you would continue going to any sort of church that was led by someone that says such things? I sure know that I wouldn't, and I doubt any of you would either.
Brent L is offline  
Old 03-13-08, 02:25 PM
  #10  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 9,437
Originally Posted by JasonF
Senator Obama's been a member of that church for about 15 years.

Do you agree with everything your pastor says? Every sermon he preaches?
About 95%, about the only thing I disagree with his just his phrasing sometimes.

But this stuff is absolutely disgusting, and I'd be running out of that church the moment I heard that. This is Fred Phelps territory as far as I'm concerned.
Artman is offline  
Old 03-13-08, 02:47 PM
  #11  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 25,062
Originally Posted by JasonF
Senator Obama's been a member of that church for about 15 years.

Do you agree with everything your pastor says? Every sermon he preaches?
I'm sorry to break up the DVDTalk Obama Fan Club, but if the stuff this guy is saying is as bad as everyone is making it out to be, then I think it's fair to hold it against Obama.

I'll reserve judgement until I can watch the clips.
Tracer Bullet is offline  
Old 03-13-08, 02:50 PM
  #12  
Moderator
 
Groucho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 70,585
Originally Posted by Brent L
As I posted in the last thread, this will certainly do great things for Obama:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4443788&page=1
"Religion of love"
Groucho is offline  
Old 03-13-08, 03:07 PM
  #13  
DVD Talk Hero
 
JasonF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 39,124
Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
I'm sorry to break up the DVDTalk Obama Fan Club, but if the stuff this guy is saying is as bad as everyone is making it out to be, then I think it's fair to hold it against Obama.

I'll reserve judgement until I can watch the clips.
I think it's perfectly fair to hold it against Senator Obama. I just disagree with the whole "OMGWTF!!!! When people hear this, they are going to tar and feather Obama!!!" thing some people seem to have going on.
JasonF is offline  
Old 03-13-08, 03:07 PM
  #14  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Th0r S1mpson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 36,443
Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
I'm sorry to break up the DVDTalk Obama Fan Club, but if the stuff this guy is saying is as bad as everyone is making it out to be, then I think it's fair to hold it against Obama.

I'll reserve judgement until I can watch the clips.
Don't get your hopes up on controversial material if you haven't seen it yet. It's really nothing worse than you'd hear from Farrakhan or the like, I gather.
Th0r S1mpson is offline  
Old 03-13-08, 03:22 PM
  #15  
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: In mourning
Posts: 26,218
Originally Posted by Venusian
I don't agree with everything my pastor preaches. But that isn't going to stop the press from bashing Obama for this ... assuming the press turns on him










And when I still attended services on a regular basis I did not agree with everything my pastor said or stood for. However, if he professed views that were abhorrent to me, and did so on multiple occasions, I most certainly would no longer be a member of his congregation.
Pharoh is offline  
Old 03-13-08, 03:31 PM
  #16  
DVD Talk God
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 68,522
Venusian,

Do you seriously believe the media is going to bash Obama?

However, if he professed views that were abhorrent to me, and did so on multiple occasions, I most certainly would no longer be a member of his congregation.


btw: I still attend services on a regular basis.
classicman2 is offline  
Old 03-13-08, 03:40 PM
  #17  
DVD Talk Hero
 
JasonF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 39,124
Originally Posted by Thor Simpson
Don't get your hopes up on controversial material if you haven't seen it yet. It's really nothing worse than you'd hear from Farrakhan or the like, I gather.
I disagree. The stuff Wright says is way worse than Farrakhan. Wright is just like Hitler (Black Hitler, of course, not Regular Hitler).

Sarcasm aside, Wright says some very provocative things about race in America and he does so in very provocative language. But it's nowhere near as hateful as some of the stuff I hear from religious leaders on the right.
JasonF is offline  
Old 03-13-08, 03:57 PM
  #18  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: is everything
Posts: 17,989
Obama team response is in italics and the rest of the article is at the link

Obama Campaign Skewers Clinton E-mail Statement

Wednesday morning, the Clinton campaign sent reporters and bloggers covering the campaign a statement that consisted of questions and comments under the title of "Keystone Test: Obama Losing Ground."

The Obama campaign's communications department decided to annotate those questions and comments with some comments of their own... and boy, they held nothing back.

Below you'll find the annotated e-mail that has been making the rounds of the media. The Obama campaign's comments are in bold.

To: Interested Parties
From: Clinton Campaign
Date: Wednesday, March 12, 2008
Re: Keystone Test: Obama Losing Ground [Get ready for a good one.]


The path to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue goes through Pennsylvania so if Barack Obama can't win there, how will he win the general election?

[Answer: I suppose by holding obviously Democratic states like California and New York, and beating McCain in swing states like Colorado, Iowa, Minnesota, Missouri, Virginia and Wisconsin where Clinton lost to Obama by mostly crushing margins. But good question.]

After setbacks in Ohio and Texas, Barack Obama needs to demonstrate that he can win the state of Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania is the last state with more than 15 electoral votes on the primary calendar and Barack Obama has lost six of the seven other largest states so far -- every state except his home state of Illinois.

[If you define "setback" as netting enough delegates out of our 20-plus-point wins in Mississippi and Wyoming to completely erase any delegate advantage the Clinton campaign earned out of March 4th, then yeah, we feel pretty setback.]

Pennsylvania is of particular importance, along with Ohio, Florida and Michigan, because it is dominated by the swing voters who are critical to a Democratic victory in November. No Democrat has won the presidency without winning Pennsylvania since 1948. And no candidate has won the Democratic nomination without winning Pennsylvania since 1972.

[What the Clinton campaign secretly means: PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE FACT THAT WE'VE LOST 14 OF THE LAST 17 CONTESTS AND SAID THAT MICHIGAN AND FLORIDA WOULDN'T COUNT FOR ANYTHING. Also, we're still trying to wrap our minds around the amazing coincidence that the only "important" states in the nominating process are the ones that Clinton won.]

But the Obama campaign has just announced that it is turning its attention away from Pennsylvania.

[Huh?]

This is not a strategy that can beat John McCain in November.

[I don't think Clinton's strategy of losing in state after state after promising more of the same politics is working all that well either.]

In the last two weeks, Barack Obama has lost ground among men, women, Democrats, independents and Republicans -- all of which point to a candidacy past its prime.

["A candidacy past its prime." These guys kill me.]


For example, just a few weeks ago, Barack Obama won 68% of men in Virginia, 67% in Wisconsin and 62% in Maryland. He won 60% of Virginia women and 55% of Maryland women. He won 62% of independents in Maryland, 64% in Wisconsin and 69% in Virginia. Obama won 59% of Democrats in Maryland, 53% in Wisconsin and 62% in Virginia. And among Republicans, Obama won 72% in both Virginia and Wisconsin.

But now Obama's support has dropped among all these groups.

[That's true, if you don't count all the winning we've been up to. As it turns out, it's difficult to maintain 40-point demographic advantages, even over Clinton]


http://www.npr.org/blogs/news/2008/0...s_clinton.html

Iron Chef is offline  
Old 03-13-08, 04:01 PM
  #19  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 25,062


I love that email.
Tracer Bullet is offline  
Old 03-13-08, 04:22 PM
  #20  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 9,437
"The chikenzz, have a come home to roooooost!"
Artman is offline  
Old 03-13-08, 04:28 PM
  #21  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Th0r S1mpson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 36,443
Originally Posted by Artman
"The chikenzz, have a come home to roooooost!"
Great. More free publicity for Popeye's.
Th0r S1mpson is offline  
Old 03-13-08, 04:31 PM
  #22  
DVD Talk Hero
 
JasonF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 39,124
Good news! There will be more debates! Both the Clinton and Obama campaigns have accepted an invitation to debate in Philadelphia on April 16, and the Obama campaign has accepted an invitation to debate in North Carolina on April 19.
JasonF is offline  
Old 03-13-08, 04:35 PM
  #23  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Th0r S1mpson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 36,443
Originally Posted by JasonF
Good news! There will be more debates! Both the Clinton and Obama campaigns have accepted an invitation to debate in Philadelphia on April 16, and the Obama campaign has accepted an invitation to debate in North Carolina on April 19.
Only a month to stew over who will get the first question.
Th0r S1mpson is offline  
Old 03-13-08, 04:40 PM
  #24  
DVD Talk Reviewer Emeritus
 
FunkDaddy J's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 3,202
Why are we so scared of the truth that our own questionable (to put it mildly) foreign policies in the Middle East had a lot to do with the 9/11 attacks? Do people still really believe we were attacked "just because we're free" or some such nonsense? Obviously, there were many factors, but our own actions had a lot to do with 9/11. That's not an absurd statement.

I mean, OK, this guy appears pretty flamboyant, but his premise isn't far off the mark, and frankly, the idea deserves recognition. It was probably the one thing I admired about Ron Paul. To me, an honest acknowledgment of the effects of our imperialistic tendencies is a good mindset for a president to be in.

FunkDaddy J is offline  
Old 03-13-08, 04:47 PM
  #25  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Ky-Fi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Cape Ann, Massachusetts
Posts: 10,921
Originally Posted by JasonF
As I posted in the last thread:

As long as we're talking about people's pastors:

Can you back up your implication that Parsley is "McCain's pastor", analogous to Obama and his pastor?
Ky-Fi is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.