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2:1 -- DST Starts Sunday/DST is a Flop

Old 03-03-08, 02:44 PM
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2:1 -- DST Starts Sunday/DST is a Flop

It's almost time for early DST, this Sunday at 2 AM. I think the 3 weeks extra in the spring and 1 week extra in the fall is particularly stupid. There just isn't enough daylight to save yet, and its too damn cold to work in the yard.

Meanwhile, a study in Indiana, which changed last year from "patchwork DST" to the whole state on DST, says DST wastes energy, with increased a/c and heating offsetting any lightbulb savings. This study is for the entire DST period, not just the recent three extra weeks in fall and spring.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/business...0,924321.story
Daylight saving may be a waste of energy, study says
By Justin Lahart | The Wall Street Journal
March 3, 2008

For decades, conventional wisdom has held that daylight-saving time, which begins March 9, reduces energy use. But a unique situation in Indiana provides evidence challenging that view: Springing forward may actually waste energy.

Up until two years ago, only 15 of Indiana's 92 counties set their clocks an hour ahead in the spring and an hour back in the fall. The rest stayed on standard time all year, in part because farmers resisted the prospect of having to work an extra hour in the morning dark. But many residents came to hate falling in and out of sync with businesses and residents in neighboring states and prevailed upon the Indiana Legislature to put the entire state on daylight-saving time beginning in the spring of 2006.

Indiana's change of heart gave University of California- Santa Barbara economics professor Matthew Kotchen and Ph.D. student Laura Grant a unique way to see how the time shift affects energy use. Using more than seven million monthly meter readings from Duke Energy Corp., covering nearly all the households in southern Indiana for three years, they were able to compare energy consumption before and after counties began observing daylight-saving time. Readings from counties that had already adopted daylight-saving time provided a control group that helped them to adjust for changes in weather from one year to the next.
Their finding: Having the entire state switch to daylight-saving time each year, rather than stay on standard time, costs Indiana households an additional $8.6 million in electricity bills. They conclude that the reduced cost of lighting in afternoons during daylight-saving time is more than offset by the higher air-conditioning costs on hot afternoons and increased heating costs on cool mornings.

"I've never had a paper with such a clear and unambiguous finding as this," says Kotchen, who presented the paper at a National Bureau of Economic Research conference this month.

A 2007 study by economists Hendrik Wolff and Ryan Kellogg of the temporary extension of daylight-saving in two Australian territories for the 2000 Summer Olympics also suggested the clock change increases energy use.

That isn't what Benjamin Franklin would have expected. In 1784, he observed what an "immense sum! that the city of Paris might save every year, by the economy of using sunshine instead of candles." (Franklin didn't propose setting clocks forward, instead he satirically suggested levying a tax on window shutters, ringing church bells at sunrise and, if that didn't work, firing cannons down the street in order to rouse Parisians out of their beds earlier.)

During the first and second world wars, the U.S. temporarily enacted daylight-saving time as an energy-saving measure. Over time, most states began changing their clocks, and in response to the 1973 oil shock, the country extended daylight-saving time in 1974 and 1975. Analyzing that time shift, a 1975 report by the U.S. Department of Transportation concluded that the change reduced electricity demand by 1 percent in March and April. But in a 1976 report to Congress evaluating that analysis, the National Bureau of Standards concluded that there were no significant energy savings.

Still, the Transportation Department study stuck. Speaking before the House of Representatives in 2002, Indiana Rep. Julia Carson said that under daylight-saving time, Indiana families would save "over $7 million annually in electricity rates alone."

In 2005, Reps. Edward J. Markey of Massachusetts and Fred Upton of Michigan drafted legislation that would extend daylight-saving time nationwide. Congress approved the amendment, which called for clocks to be sprung forward a week earlier in the spring and to be set back three weeks later in the fall. The change went into effect last year.

The energy-savings numbers often cited by lawmakers and others come from research conducted in the 1970s. Yet a key difference between now and the '70s -- or, for that matter, Ben Franklin's time -- is the prevalence of air conditioning.

"In an inland state like Indiana, it gets hot in the summer," says Steve Gustafsen, a lawyer in New Albany, Ind., who filed a suit in 2000 in an effort to get his county to abandon daylight-saving time. "Daylight saving means running the air conditioner more."

That was borne out by the study by Kotchen and Grant. Their research showed that while an extra hour of daylight in the evenings may mean less electricity is spent on lights, it also means that houses are warmer in the summer when people come home from work. Conversely, during daylight-saving time's cooler months, people may crank up the thermostats more in the morning.

Still, the case on daylight-saving time isn't closed.

"My read on this study is that it's one data point that gives us something to think about," says Richard Stevie, an economist with Duke Energy, of Kotchen and Grant's research. "I think that additional research really needs to be done." And UCLA economist Matthew Kahn points out that even if the evidence on Indiana is airtight, the effect of daylight-saving time on other states might be different -- a point that Markey makes as well.

"One study of the situation in Indiana cannot accurately asses the impact of (daylight-saving time) changes across the nation, especially when it does not include more northern, colder regions," the congressman notes.

There may also be social benefits to daylight-saving time that weren't covered in the research. When the extension of daylight-saving time was proposed by Markey, he cited studies that noted "less crime, fewer traffic fatalities, more recreation time and increased economic activity" with the extra sunlight in the evening.

In Indiana, the debate goes on. "The simpler the issue, the more people have opinions about it," says Indiana State Rep. Scott Reske, who voted against the switch to daylight-saving time. In the aftermath of the time shift, "a lot of people who hated it now love it, and a lot of people who loved it now hate it," he says. A separate debate over whether the state should be on Central or Eastern Time rages on.
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Old 03-03-08, 02:48 PM
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DST starts on Sunday? Fuck. Change it back!
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Old 03-03-08, 02:52 PM
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"I've never had a paper with such a clear and unambiguous finding as this," says Kotchen, who presented the paper at a National Bureau of Economic Research conference this month.
Ain't science grand?

Dumbass government policies, not so much.
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Old 03-03-08, 02:55 PM
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Didn't they determine that the early/later DST switch did not save any add'l energy as well? That did not include all the work-arounds for devices and software that were coded for first Sunday in April/last Sunday in October item.

Last edited by wishbone; 03-03-08 at 03:07 PM. Reason: and a DST schedule is on my desk...
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Old 03-03-08, 02:57 PM
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Think of the cows!!
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Old 03-03-08, 02:57 PM
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so long as my S.A.D. lifts, I don't care when they do it
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Old 03-03-08, 03:07 PM
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I love DST for the extra sunlight in the evenings.
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Old 03-03-08, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by mosquitobite
I love DST for the extra sunlight in the evenings.
You mean you did not enjoy having your cable tv programs changing times between EST and CST or trying to remember if California was three hours behind or just two?
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Old 03-03-08, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Bronkster
Think of the cows!!
Damn straight!
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Old 03-03-08, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mosquitobite
I love DST for the extra sunlight in the evenings.
I hate it for that reason.
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Old 03-03-08, 03:15 PM
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Too much ready-ready -- not enough bolding. What does the "2:1" in the thread title mean?
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Old 03-03-08, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by wishbon3
You mean you did not enjoy having your cable tv programs changing times between EST and CST or trying to remember if California was three hours behind or just two?
Actually, I was in one of the counties in Indiana that has always observed DST (well as long as I've been alive at least). There were a few counties to the north that didn't, and some of those people worked down here (including me when I was married to my ex). Now THAT was confusing! Working on DST, but living on "slow time" (that's the local slang for the other) was unique to say the least.

It was nice to say you worked 7-4 instead of 8-5 during the summer, but it really made no difference since I was going to bed at 8 or 9 instead of 9 to 10
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Old 03-03-08, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by mosquitobite
Actually, I was in one of the counties in Indiana that has always observed DST (well as long as I've been alive at least). There were a few counties to the north that didn't, and some of those people worked down here (including me when I was married to my ex). Now THAT was confusing! Working on DST, but living on "slow time" (that's the local slang for the other) was unique to say the least.

It was nice to say you worked 7-4 instead of 8-5 during the summer, but it really made no difference since I was going to bed at 8 or 9 instead of 9 to 10
I remember hearing about "slow time" -- that would take getting used to.
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Old 03-03-08, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by NCMojo
Too much ready-ready -- not enough bolding. What does the "2:1" in the thread title mean?
Two stories for the price of one.

You don't even need to read the article -- I completely summarized it in two sentences. I just quoted it to prove i had one.
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Old 03-03-08, 09:16 PM
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I don't see why you have to run extra AC? Is it a psychological thing? the heat is going to be there no matter what time it is
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Old 03-03-08, 09:18 PM
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just read this
Their research showed that while an extra hour of daylight in the evenings may mean less electricity is spent on lights, it also means that houses are warmer in the summer when people come home from work.
What about businesses? They should be able to turn off the AC during that time and save money, right?
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Old 03-03-08, 09:18 PM
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Wooooo. Yet again, I can declare my love for my home state by not following this absurd policy.
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Old 03-03-08, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Venusian
I don't see why you have to run extra AC? Is it a psychological thing? the heat is going to be there no matter what time it is
The federal government just likes to play God.
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Old 03-03-08, 09:43 PM
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Screw DST, and screw time zones too. Greenwich Mean Time for everybody!
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Old 03-04-08, 12:52 AM
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I hate this shit. Stop messing with the time! Just leave it at one or the other, I don't care which! It fucks me up for weeks!
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Old 03-04-08, 01:26 AM
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Save the bicyclists!

DST||DST
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Old 03-04-08, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by mosquitobite
I love DST for the extra sunlight in the evenings.
x10
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Old 03-04-08, 08:07 AM
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The clock on my thermostat will be correct again.
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Old 03-04-08, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by mosquitobite
I love DST for the extra sunlight in the evenings.
I hate it for watching movies in our den. 8pm and still an hour to go before darkness.
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Old 03-04-08, 08:48 AM
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Here in the SE, it's always been convenient. Can't say I've ever had any complaints in NC. That could change being somewhere else - which is why I support a uniform change across the country one way or another.
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