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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 02-19-08, 12:14 PM   #1
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Election X

cont here...
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Old 02-19-08, 12:28 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dick_grayson
you think it's a personal thing? ie the Democrat hatred of the Bush era? Can you not see how much he's done to fuck up this country? the whole country should be outraged. This isn't partisan politics. It's way beyond that

Of course it is personal and partisan politics, stemming from your belief that the country is 'fucked up' which a personal assessment.
 
Old 02-19-08, 12:33 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharoh
Of course it is personal and partisan politics, stemming from your belief that the country is 'fucked up' which a personal assessment.
But not a partisan assessment. You're seeming to imply that Democrats see the world myopically through some kind of Bush-frenzy, while Republicans recognize the remarkable accomplishments of a great man. The reality is that the vast majority of people -- including many die-hard Republicans and more moderate Democrats -- recognize the simple truth as Dick presented it -- that this country certainly is "fucked up", in a myriad of different ways that can be traced back to the current Administration and the Republican Congress.
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Old 02-19-08, 12:36 PM   #4
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With all of these changes that the candidates of my party promise, people seem to forget a rather important institution - The United States Senate.

It's extremely doubtful that the Democrats will have 60 votes. Actually they would need more than that on some issues, because a couple of Democrats (and Independent) have been known to stray somewhat.

One thing that will happen if either Clinton or Obama is elected is that somewhere down the line there will be a systematic withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq. I seriously doubt that it will satisfy many of our fervent anti-Iraq War folks. People need to remember - it's different when you've got the job.
 
Old 02-19-08, 12:38 PM   #5
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Funny how Hillary telling un/underemployed workers in the midwest that she'll fix NAFTA. Who "fucked up" their lives?
 
Old 02-19-08, 12:41 PM   #6
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If the country is 'fucked up,' it's the fault of both Democrats and Republicans over the course of decades if you ask me.

'Fucked up' is a pretty strong statement. I'm sure I have more fundamental problems with the role of government in our country than most people in this forum, yet I would in no way characterize the country as being 'fucked up.'
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Old 02-19-08, 12:42 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCMojo
But not a partisan assessment. You're seeming to imply that Democrats see the world myopically through some kind of Bush-frenzy, while Republicans recognize the remarkable accomplishments of a great man. The reality is that the vast majority of people -- including many die-hard Republicans and more moderate Democrats -- recognize the simple truth as Dick presented it -- that this country certainly is "fucked up", in a myriad of different ways that can be traced back to the current Administration and the Republican Congress.

I purposefully and very specifically only used the word personal when describing his assessment. I realise what that the majority disapprove of the job of the current administration. However, I strenously object to the notion that the nation is fucked up. It is far from it, and despite your beliefs, and that of many others, there have been many long lasting and far reaching accomplishments under the administration.

So no, I don't think Democrats see the world myopically and only Republicans recognise the truth. However, there certainly exists a sizeable number of people who allow their personal dislike of the President to color their view, let hyperbole feed more hyperbole, and make outlandish statements not truly grounded in the reality of the situation.
 
Old 02-19-08, 12:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharoh
So no, I don't think Democrats see the world myopically and only Republicans recognise the truth. However, there certainly exists a sizeable number of people who allow their personal dislike of the President to color their view, let hyperbole feed more hyperbole, and make outlandish statements not truly grounded in the reality of the situation.

One needs to look no further than some of the statements this morning made on CSPAN regarding Castro. There were many people (surprisingly IMHO) praising Castro and the job he has done in Cuba and criticizing Bush's stance on Cuba (which essentially is the same one we've had for the past several decades) as if he put those policies into place. Personally I think we've taken the wrong approach wrt Cuba, but to use it as another reason to criticize Bush seems a bit much.

Regarding whether or not the country is fucked up... we have the freedom to worship as we please, we have the ability to work and make a living, we are allowed to voice our opinions, we have freedom of movement, we can enter into private contracts, own property and for the most part frankly the Gov't does leave us alone. Sure there are some problems and issues but I think given the diversity of opinions and approaches to solving those problems that exist the balance we usually maintain is the right approach. Going too much in one extreme (either in a particular issue or talking about political approaches in general) is what seems to cause us the most problems.
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Old 02-19-08, 12:57 PM   #9
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Without a doubt, one of THE most spot on opinion pieces I've ever read, thus, no bolding....

Quote:
In election 2008, don’t forget Angry White Man


Gary Hubbell
February 9, 2008

There is a great amount of interest in this year’s presidential elections, as everybody seems to recognize that our next president has to be a lot better than George Bush. The Democrats are riding high with two groundbreaking candidates — a woman and an African-American — while the conservative Republicans are in a quandary about their party’s nod to a quasi-liberal maverick, John McCain.

Each candidate is carefully pandering to a smorgasbord of special-interest groups, ranging from gay, lesbian and transgender people to children of illegal immigrants to working mothers to evangelical Christians.

There is one group no one has recognized, and it is the group that will decide the election: the Angry White Man. The Angry White Man comes from all economic backgrounds, from dirt-poor to filthy rich. He represents all geographic areas in America, from urban sophisticate to rural redneck, deep South to mountain West, left Coast to Eastern Seaboard.

His common traits are that he isn’t looking for anything from anyone — just the promise to be able to make his own way on a level playing field. In many cases, he is an independent businessman and employs several people. He pays more than his share of taxes and works hard.

The victimhood syndrome buzzwords — “disenfranchised,” “marginalized” and “voiceless” — don’t resonate with him. “Press ‘one’ for English” is a curse-word to him. He’s used to picking up the tab, whether it’s the company Christmas party, three sets of braces, three college educations or a beautiful wedding.

He believes the Constitution is to be interpreted literally, not as a “living document” open to the whims and vagaries of a panel of judges who have never worked an honest day in their lives.

The Angry White Man owns firearms, and he’s willing to pick up a gun to defend his home and his country. He is willing to lay down his life to defend the freedom and safety of others, and the thought of killing someone who needs killing really doesn’t bother him.

The Angry White Man is not a metrosexual, a homosexual or a victim. Nobody like him drowned in Hurricane Katrina — he got his people together and got the hell out, then went back in to rescue those too helpless and stupid to help themselves, often as a police officer, a National Guard soldier or a volunteer firefighter.

His last name and religion don’t matter. His background might be Italian, English, Polish, German, Slavic, Irish, or Russian, and he might have Cherokee, Mexican, or Puerto Rican mixed in, but he considers himself a white American.

He’s a man’s man, the kind of guy who likes to play poker, watch football, hunt white-tailed deer, call turkeys, play golf, spend a few bucks at a strip club once in a blue moon, change his own oil and build things. He coaches baseball, soccer and football teams and doesn’t ask for a penny. He’s the kind of guy who can put an addition on his house with a couple of friends, drill an oil well, weld a new bumper for his truck, design a factory and publish books. He can fill a train with 100,000 tons of coal and get it to the power plant on time so that you keep the lights on and never know what it took to flip that light switch.

Women either love him or hate him, but they know he’s a man, not a dishrag. If they’re looking for someone to walk all over, they’ve got the wrong guy. He stands up straight, opens doors for women and says “Yes, sir” and “No, ma’am.”

He might be a Republican and he might be a Democrat; he might be a Libertarian or a Green. He knows that his wife is more emotional than rational, and he guides the family in a rational manner.

He’s not a racist, but he is annoyed and disappointed when people of certain backgrounds exhibit behavior that typifies the worst stereotypes of their race. He’s willing to give everybody a fair chance if they work hard, play by the rules and learn English.

Most important, the Angry White Man is pissed off. When his job site becomes flooded with illegal workers who don’t pay taxes and his wages drop like a stone, he gets righteously angry. When his job gets shipped overseas, and he has to speak to some incomprehensible idiot in India for tech support, he simmers. When Al Sharpton comes on TV, leading some rally for reparations for slavery or some such nonsense, he bites his tongue and he remembers. When a child gets charged with carrying a concealed weapon for mistakenly bringing a penknife to school, he takes note of who the local idiots are in education and law enforcement.

He also votes, and the Angry White Man loathes Hillary Clinton. Her voice reminds him of a shovel scraping a rock. He recoils at the mere sight of her on television. Her very image disgusts him, and he cannot fathom why anyone would want her as their leader. It’s not that she is a woman. It’s that she is who she is. It’s the liberal victim groups she panders to, the “poor me” attitude that she represents, her inability to give a straight answer to an honest question, his tax dollars that she wants to give to people who refuse to do anything for themselves.

There are many millions of Angry White Men. Four million Angry White Men are members of the National Rifle Association, and all of them will vote against Hillary Clinton, just as the great majority of them voted for George Bush.

He hopes that she will be the Democratic nominee for president in 2008, and he will make sure that she gets beaten like a drum.
http://www.aspentimes.com/article/2008198091324

I guess your agreement or disagreement with the author's assessment is going to boil down to ideology
 
Old 02-19-08, 01:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinBlank
Without a doubt, one of THE most spot on opinion pieces I've ever read, thus, no bolding....


http://www.aspentimes.com/article/2008198091324

I guess your agreement or disagreement with the author's assessment is going to boil down to ideology
Or it could boil down to whether you abhor his turgid writing style.
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Old 02-19-08, 01:08 PM   #11
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i don't see much substance in that
 
Old 02-19-08, 01:13 PM   #12
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So Angry White Man = Republican
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Old 02-19-08, 01:15 PM   #13
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is everyone in the NRA white?
 
Old 02-19-08, 01:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venusian
i don't see much substance in that
Disagreeing with something means that it lacks substance?

Being a member of the vast right-wing conspiracy I found his view of both politics and society to be spot on.
 
Old 02-19-08, 01:17 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by MartinBlank
Being a member of the vast right-wing conspiracy I found his view of both politics and society to be spot on.
Obviously...
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Old 02-19-08, 01:18 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venusian
is everyone in the NRA white?
I doubt it.

Quote:
His last name and religion don’t matter. His background might be Italian, English, Polish, German, Slavic, Irish, or Russian, and he might have Cherokee, Mexican, or Puerto Rican mixed in, but he considers himself a white American.
 
Old 02-19-08, 01:19 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Chrisedge
Obviously...
And obviously you don't. Thanks for the input
 
Old 02-19-08, 01:34 PM   #18
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Sorry but I can't muster up much sympathy for the angry white man.
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Old 02-19-08, 01:37 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by MartinBlank
Disagreeing with something means that it lacks substance?

Being a member of the vast right-wing conspiracy I found his view of both politics and society to be spot on.
i didn't say i disagreed with it. I just don't see much to disagree with. Angry white men, as the guy describes them, are angry with Clinton. Okay. Anything else?
 
Old 02-19-08, 01:37 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Dog
Sorry but I can't muster up much sympathy for the angry white man.

I thought that was kind of the point of the article though... he doesn't want your sympathy
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Old 02-19-08, 01:40 PM   #21
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So the angry white man presumably won't vote for a woman (like Hillary anyway), a black man, or a guy who is for amesty for illegals.

How is this segment of the population going to decide the election again?
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Old 02-19-08, 01:41 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by MartinBlank
I doubt it.
it says he considers himself white. Does everyone in the NRA consider themselves white?
 
Old 02-19-08, 01:45 PM   #23
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It's that angry white woman that you have to watch out for.
 
Old 02-19-08, 01:49 PM   #24
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Speaking of the angry white man - when was the last time that a Democrat candidate for president received a majority of the white male vote?
 
Old 02-19-08, 01:56 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classicman2
Speaking of the angry white man - when was the last time that a Democrat candidate for president received a majority of the white male vote?
White male vote or the angry white male vote?
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