Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

Video: Jonah Goldberg explains Liberal Fascism on The Daily Show

Old 01-18-08, 01:35 AM
  #1  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,032
Video: Jonah Goldberg explains Liberal Fascism on The Daily Show

<embed FlashVars="videoId=147884" src='http://www.thedailyshow.com/sitewide/video_player/view/default/swf.jhtml' quality='high' bgcolor='#cccccc' width='332' height='316' name='comedy_central_player' align='middle' allowScriptAccess='always' allownetworking='external' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' pluginspage='http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer'></embed>

<embed width="425" height="373" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/J30-eYb9SlE&rel=1&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent"></embed>

I'd have to agree with the guy. Like the video I posted in The New Political Spectrum thread, complete gov't control to the left of the spectrum and the further to the right to travel the less gov't intervention.

Thoughts?
MartinBlank is offline  
Old 01-18-08, 02:38 AM
  #2  
bhk
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Right of Atilla The Hun
Posts: 19,749
I'd have to actually read the book to find out what his point is.
bhk is offline  
Old 01-18-08, 02:47 AM
  #3  
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 173
You agree with that guy? He got owned. They caught him cold fabricating outrage for profit. (i.e. Even if he's telling the truth about the contents of his book not drawing overt liberal-nazi parallels, the title/cover is commercial whoring at its finest.)
Locomocha is offline  
Old 01-18-08, 04:01 AM
  #4  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Land of the Lobstrosities
Posts: 10,300
TDS interview is just a mess. Between the edits and Jon going strait into attack mode I wouldn't have had a clue what the book was even about if I hadn't watched the H&C video while waiting for TDS to buffer. I'm surprised they didn't post the whole thing unedited online.
wmansir is offline  
Old 01-18-08, 06:19 AM
  #5  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Ky-Fi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Cape Ann, Massachusetts
Posts: 10,928
I get so frustrated watching these type of exchanges. Now, I'm sure you could get somebody on there with a modicum of political intelligence to logically critique Goldberg's points. But these idiot TV personalities who dabble in dumbed-down "political humor" for the masses like Jon Stewart understand the term "classical liberalism" about as well as Britney Spears would understand the ethnic conflict in the Balkans.
Ky-Fi is offline  
Old 01-18-08, 06:57 AM
  #6  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Brent L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Upstate, SC
Posts: 13,617
I saw Jonah Goldberg on Glenn Beck last night and it was a far better interview, far more in depth. JS and Colmes didn't give Goldberg a chance at all to actually explain the book. For something like this you can't just give him a few minutes, and then have the main person talking to him already fully against it all just because of the cover and the title. Look for the Glenn Beck interview on YouTube, or other interviews on there maybe.
Brent L is offline  
Old 01-18-08, 07:25 AM
  #7  
DVD Talk God
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Directionally Challenged (for DirecTV)
Posts: 122,839
I just think it is a way to say "we conservatives are really in the middle of everyone - the real centrists."

This was discussed last week - the one-dimensional political spectrum model just cannot adequately capture the full spectrum of beliefs.
Red Dog is offline  
Old 01-18-08, 07:51 AM
  #8  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,358
Originally Posted by Ky-Fi
I get so frustrated watching these type of exchanges. Now, I'm sure you could get somebody on there with a modicum of political intelligence to logically critique Goldberg's points. But these idiot TV personalities who dabble in dumbed-down "political humor" for the masses like Jon Stewart understand the term "classical liberalism" about as well as Britney Spears would understand the ethnic conflict in the Balkans.
I agree with you as I am republican but guys Jonah Goldberg and Ann Coulter just want to cause controversy to sell books, so I really don't even listen to them that much about my political party.

I can't even watch Jon Stewart anymore cause it is so one sided, and every conservative that comes on he goes right into attack mode, yet when a conservative comes back with logical points, then he does his comic schtick like he doesn't even take this stuff seriously.

I wish Jon Stewart would just make fun of ALL politicians and stop worrying about helping Democrats get elected, cause the guy is funny as hell, and his show is funny when it isn't one sided. But guys like Stewart & Maher are so obsessed with trying to make sure Republicans don't win elections anymore, they are losing a good chunk of audience like me who are conservative and just want to watch a nice half hour show that makes fun of the news, entertainers, athletes, and politicians.
coli is offline  
Old 01-18-08, 11:08 AM
  #9  
DVD Talk God
 
kvrdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 86,201
Crap, I got to tired of "buffering" and never watched past 1 minute. But fascism comes from both sides, is generally only recognized by the other side, and the first side doesn't care because the other side calls everything that side does fascism.
kvrdave is offline  
Old 01-18-08, 08:24 PM
  #10  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
DVD Polizei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 52,451
Alan does make some points. Why the hell is this guy even bringing up Nazis. Like who the fuck almighty hasn't in the last 10 years.
DVD Polizei is offline  
Old 01-18-08, 11:16 PM
  #11  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Formerly known as "brizz"/kck
Posts: 23,425
what a ridiculous premise. this is the same mindset that celebrates the fact that LIncoln was a Republican and that Democrats were pro-slavery as if it has any relevance to today. he takes the words at literal face value regardless of the context. Progressivism today is not the same as that of the Progressive Era. Nor is Hitler's belief in an "organic whole" anything remotely relevant to organic foods
HistoryProf is offline  
Old 01-18-08, 11:24 PM
  #12  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Sitting on a beach, earning 20%
Posts: 9,917
Making jokes on a comedy show = "attack mode"?

Lighten up, Francis.
DonnachaOne is offline  
Old 01-19-08, 12:58 AM
  #13  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 8,527
I'm curious as to whether Goldberg considers warrantless wiretapping more or less fascist than organic foods. Hmm...
hahn is offline  
Old 01-19-08, 08:14 AM
  #14  
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: In mourning
Posts: 26,284
Originally Posted by brizz
what a ridiculous premise. this is the same mindset that celebrates the fact that LIncoln was a Republican and that Democrats were pro-slavery as if it has any relevance to today. he takes the words at literal face value regardless of the context. Progressivism today is not the same as that of the Progressive Era. Nor is Hitler's belief in an "organic whole" anything remotely relevant to organic foods

DISCLAIMER: I have not read the book in question, nor do I intend to.

However, Florentine Republicanism has bears scant resemblance to the modern Republicanism of the United States, yet I still study it when tracing back the lineage. And I don't mean to equate in any meaningful way Hitler's beliefs with todays organic food movement, but it is very possible that they share some common philosophical progenitors.
Pharoh is offline  
Old 01-19-08, 01:07 PM
  #15  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Sean O'Hara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vichy America
Posts: 13,535
Originally Posted by Locomocha
You agree with that guy? He got owned.
It's extremely easy to get owned in taped interviews that are edited before airtime. I'd like to see the raw footage.

They caught him cold fabricating outrage for profit. (i.e. Even if he's telling the truth about the contents of his book not drawing overt liberal-nazi parallels, the title/cover is commercial whoring at its finest.)
You do know that cover art is dictated by the marketing department, not the author? Blame Goldberg for what's between the covers, not what's on it.
Sean O'Hara is offline  
Old 01-19-08, 01:32 PM
  #16  
Admin-Thanos
 
VinVega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Caught between the moon and NYC
Posts: 31,522
Originally Posted by Red Dog
This was discussed last week - the one-dimensional political spectrum model just cannot adequately capture the full spectrum of beliefs.
Originally Posted by kvrdave
But fascism comes from both sides, is generally only recognized by the other side, and the first side doesn't care because the other side calls everything that side does fascism.
I agree with these 2 points.

In general, the Daily Show is great for a few laughs, but you're not really going to learn a hell of a lot. Same with Hannity and Colmes or any of the other talking head shows. There's just not enough time and it's all sound bytes.
VinVega is offline  
Old 01-19-08, 01:47 PM
  #17  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 9,513
I heard this guy for an hour on Medved last wk... I understand his overall point, basically about trying to dispell the popular idea that Republicans (read Bush) are one step away from the Nazis. I just don't think he's good enough on tv to get this across, at least when the host isn't agreeing with him.
Artman is offline  
Old 01-19-08, 03:24 PM
  #18  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
DVD Polizei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 52,451
Well, this "popular" idea that the Bush Admin is a group of Nazis is also retarded. To assume this, you have to assume organization, control, and a few other things including taking out your enemy in one bold Blitz. The Bush Admin has none of those factors, and instead, has dragged it's fat ass along for years.

While their behavior is often correlated with Nazism, it's just flat out misinformed, and only goes to demonstrate how misinformed society is about Nazism and altogether.
DVD Polizei is offline  
Old 01-19-08, 06:02 PM
  #19  
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 173
Originally Posted by Artman
I heard this guy for an hour on Medved last wk... I understand his overall point, basically about trying to dispell the popular idea that Republicans (read Bush) are one step away from the Nazis. I just don't think he's good enough on tv to get this across, at least when the host isn't agreeing with him.
If that was his goal, then he should have been careful to avoid comparing Dems to Nazis since a negative message almost always drowns out a positive one.

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara
You do know that cover art is dictated by the marketing department, not the author? Blame Goldberg for what's between the covers, not what's on it.
He did, however, have control over the title, and hitler parallels arise naturally from fascism parallels. He chose an inflammatory title. If it doesn't represent what's in the book, that's his fault. It has certainly gotten him attention, but if some of it is negative then he'll just have to deal with it.
Locomocha is offline  
Old 01-19-08, 07:02 PM
  #20  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Sean O'Hara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vichy America
Posts: 13,535
Originally Posted by Locomocha
He did, however, have control over the title, and hitler parallels arise naturally from fascism parallels. He chose an inflammatory title. If it doesn't represent what's in the book, that's his fault. It has certainly gotten him attention, but if some of it is negative then he'll just have to deal with it.
He wrote a book on the thesis that fascist ideology (not necessarily Nazism) influenced the progressive/liberal movement. What title would you suggest?
Sean O'Hara is offline  
Old 01-19-08, 07:34 PM
  #21  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,032
14 minute interview with Goldberg... http://hotair.com/archives/2008/01/1...h-jon-stewart/
MartinBlank is offline  
Old 01-19-08, 08:31 PM
  #22  
DVD Talk Hero
 
JasonF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 39,462
Originally Posted by kvrdave
Crap, I got to tired of "buffering" and never watched past 1 minute. But fascism comes from both sides, is generally only recognized by the other side, and the first side doesn't care because the other side calls everything that side does fascism.
Authoritarianism and totalitarianism come from both sides of the political spectrum. Fascism is a particular political philosophy that traces its lineage through rightwing political movements.
JasonF is offline  
Old 01-20-08, 08:10 AM
  #23  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Ky-Fi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Cape Ann, Massachusetts
Posts: 10,928
Originally Posted by JasonF
Authoritarianism and totalitarianism come from both sides of the political spectrum. Fascism is a particular political philosophy that traces its lineage through rightwing political movements.

But again, Goldberg is saying the political definitions derived from the standard one-dimensional political spectrum are not a very accurate description of the totality of the ideologies, and you're just saying he's wrong by using the standard definitions ("rightwing political movements") of that very same one-dimensional spectrum that he's abandoning.
Ky-Fi is offline  
Old 01-20-08, 09:04 AM
  #24  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Madison, WI ("77 square miles surrounded by reality")
Posts: 30,004
Originally Posted by Ky-Fi
But again, Goldberg is saying the political definitions derived from the standard one-dimensional political spectrum are not a very accurate description of the totality of the ideologies, and you're just saying he's wrong by using the standard definitions ("rightwing political movements") of that very same one-dimensional spectrum that he's abandoning.
Yes, and as I said before in another thread:

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread....sm#post8425516

Originally Posted by movielib
If you take out undefining characteristics (such as racism, which is not a necessary condition of either fascism or communism) and just focus on the economic elements I think you get this:
Communism: puts both ownership and control of property in the hands of the state

Fascism: leaves ownership in the hands of private individuals, but puts control of the property in the hands of the government.
Now that is also a simplification but, I think, essentially accurate. And the results, it seems to me, are essentially the same. I think they both are firmly entrenched in the lower quadrant [of the two dimensional economic freedom/personal freedom spectrum], even if not in precisely the same place.
Fascism and communism both allow very little economic freedom and very little personal freedom. Their similarities are far more prevalent than their differences. It seems almost irrelevant and meaningless whether they are supposedly "left" or "right."
movielib is offline  
Old 01-20-08, 12:05 PM
  #25  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
DVD Polizei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 52,451
Doesn't the US Government have ultimate control over what they can do with your property?
DVD Polizei is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.