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Survey shows eco-warriors are worst polluters

Old 01-15-08, 11:22 PM
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Survey shows eco-warriors are worst polluters

This does not surprise me at all. I had always suspected it. Now I have evidence that I was right.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/mai...agreens113.xml

Survey shows eco-warriors are worst polluters

January 13, 2008

A survey of travel habits has revealed that the most environmentally conscious people are also the biggest polluters.

"Green" consumers have some of the biggest carbon footprints because they are still hooked on flying abroad or driving their cars while their adherence to the green cause is mostly limited to small gestures.

Identified as "eco-adopters", they are most likely to be members of an environmental organisation, buy green products such as detergents, recycle and have a keen interest in green issues.

But the survey of 25,000 people, by the market research company Target Group Index, found that eco-adopters are seven per cent more likely than the general population to take flights, and four per cent more likely to own a car. The survey found similar trends in France and the United States.

Geoff Wicken, the author of the report, pointed to David Cameron, the Conservative leader, as a classic eco-adopter because despite styling himself as a green warrior he also takes flights in private helicopters and planes.
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Old 01-16-08, 10:24 AM
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I remember when they had "Environmental Whacko Day" known as Earth Day, they usually need many trucks to deal with the tons of garbage they generate.
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Old 01-16-08, 11:20 AM
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My guess is that the differences are due primarily to income -- people with more income are more likely to buy eco-friendly products, recycle, etc., but are also more likely to drive cars, fly, etc. I would guess that if you adjusted for income level, you'd see no difference in car ownership and flights between the people who buy "green" products, etc. and the people who don't.
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Old 01-16-08, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by JasonF
My guess is that the differences are due primarily to income -- people with more income are more likely to buy eco-friendly products, recycle, etc., but are also more likely to drive cars, fly, etc. I would guess that if you adjusted for income level, you'd see no difference in car ownership and flights between the people who buy "green" products, etc. and the people who don't.

Exactly, poor people can't be worrying about saving the world when they are worrying about losing their jobs, getting food on the dinner table or a roof over their heads. My wife and I are "eco-friendly" (we even use G-diapers) but we probably have 3-4x the carbon impact than a typical American.
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Old 01-16-08, 11:45 AM
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So they did a study and didn't control for income? What dumbasses.
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Old 01-16-08, 12:00 PM
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Old 01-16-08, 12:50 PM
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I recycle. Weirdly, I don't have a private jet. So, the article is invalid.
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Old 01-16-08, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by The Bus
I recycle. Weirdly, I don't have a private jet. So, the article is invalid.
The article is correct. You, however, are not. Turns out you really do have a private jet.
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Old 01-16-08, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by jdodd
The article is correct. You, however, are not. Turns out you really do have a private jet.
I recycle and walk or bicycle to work, ergo, I have my own fleet of jets.

Sweet!
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Old 01-16-08, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by neiname
Exactly, poor people can't be worrying about saving the world when they are worrying about losing their jobs, getting food on the dinner table or a roof over their heads. My wife and I are "eco-friendly" (we even use G-diapers) but we probably have 3-4x the carbon impact than a typical American.
What are G-diapers? Are they the kind I have seen in health food stores in the green packaging?
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Old 01-16-08, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by orangecrush18
What are G-diapers? Are they the kind I have seen in health food stores in the green packaging?
They're diapers made of grass. Somewhat similar to the grass skirts that they wear in Hawaii, but pinned up to make a diaper.

Very eco-friendly.
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Old 01-16-08, 06:48 PM
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If I were Al Gore, I'd be so pissed I'd get into my private jet and go straighten the author out.
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Old 01-16-08, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by neiname
but we probably have 3-4x the carbon impact than a typical American.
Would you care to elaborate on this. Do you own a foundry or something?
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Old 01-16-08, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by foggy
Would you care to elaborate on this. Do you own a foundry or something?


That's nothing. I am sure many of us are well above that level even. Frequent air travel is the biggest culprit.
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Old 01-16-08, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by bhk
I remember when they had "Environmental Whacko Day" known as Earth Day, they usually need many trucks to deal with the tons of garbage they generate.

Yes, I remember that too:


http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...57C0A966958260

Grass Isn't Greener After Earth Day

By ERIC PACE

Published: April 24, 1990

Ms. Meisel said the Earth Day celebrants left an estimated 154.3 tons of refuse, compared with the 15 to 20 tons found in the park during ''a typical two-day weekend at this time of year.''
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Old 01-16-08, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by JasonF
My guess is that the differences are due primarily to income -- people with more income are more likely to buy eco-friendly products, recycle, etc., but are also more likely to drive cars, fly, etc. I would guess that if you adjusted for income level, you'd see no difference in car ownership and flights between the people who buy "green" products, etc. and the people who don't.


That's a good point.
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Old 01-17-08, 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted by grundle

But the survey of 25,000 people, by the market research company Target Group Index, found that eco-adopters are seven per cent more likely than the general population to take flights, and four per cent more likely to own a car. The survey found similar trends in France and the United States.
Holy shit, that's an indication of a failed social movement if I ever heard of one.
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Old 01-17-08, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by NCMojo
They're diapers made of grass. Somewhat similar to the grass skirts that they wear in Hawaii, but pinned up to make a diaper.

Very eco-friendly.
Here and I thought I was being eco-friendly by using cloth diapers.
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Old 01-17-08, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Pharoh
That's nothing. I am sure many of us are well above that level even. Frequent air travel is the biggest culprit.
how is air travel a culprit? train travel is just as bad
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Old 01-17-08, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by grundle

But the survey of 25,000 people, by the market research company Target Group Index, found that eco-adopters are seven per cent more likely than the general population to take flights, and four per cent more likely to own a car. The survey found similar trends in France and the United States.
Despite posters trying to portray that this survey was of people owning or flying in private jets, the above gets to the crux of the matter. For the environmental whackos, it isn't about the earth(or that is a minor consideration). It is more about power and control over other people's lives and day to day activities. Hence the disconnect from the behavior they advocate for others and their own behavior.
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Old 01-18-08, 10:56 PM
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I consider myself a "green consumer". I make a pretty big effort to reduce my footprint and it's way smaller than someone in my position COULD have. But it's certainly larger than someone who's living at their parent's house, taking the bus to work because they can't afford a car or a home of their own and all the responsibilities that come with it.

Does that somehow make me a hypocritical tree hugger? That my footprint is larger than the homeless guys?

And the article states that they're slightly more likely to fly or own a car, it doesn't necessarily talk about total carbon footprints as a whole. Flying commercial is essentially public transportation. You're hopping on a flight that is going whether you're on it or not, no? Does my added 150 pounds = extra tons of emmissions? Maybe so, I don't know.

Seems like pretty vague statistics to be making accusations about the "failure" of the green social movement. Guess we should all just give up. Game over.
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Old 01-19-08, 12:52 PM
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Guess we should all just give up. Game over.
How about they first live their own lives the way they want to impose others live them.
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Old 01-19-08, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Superboy
Holy shit, that's an indication of a failed social movement if I ever heard of one.
Environmentalists' commitment to helping the environment is just as strong as Larry Craig's commitment to his heterosexuality.
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Old 01-19-08, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by bhk
How about they first live their own lives the way they want to impose others live them.
Most do. It's always the vocal minority that tends to rub people the wrong way. The article above proves nothing. As much as you hate hearing Eco-warriors, I hate the people who are always out there trying to discredit people who are environmentally friendly.
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Old 01-19-08, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by bhk
Despite posters trying to portray that this survey was of people owning or flying in private jets, the above gets to the crux of the matter. For the environmental whackos, it isn't about the earth(or that is a minor consideration). It is more about power and control over other people's lives and day to day activities. Hence the disconnect from the behavior they advocate for others and their own behavior.
Exactly.

And besides being about power and control, it's also about feeling morally superior to everyone else. "I care about the environment and you don't, so it's OK that I used more fossil fuels than you did."
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