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Mitt Romney's Prevarications

Old 12-22-07, 02:08 PM
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Mitt Romney's Prevarications

Anyone following Mitt's history of fantastical fibs? This guy is a joke. And a half.

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22361410/

BOSTON - Mitt Romney, who earlier this year had to backpedal on his hunting exploits, is explaining himself again after claiming an endorsement he did not receive and saying he witnessed his father in civil rights marches he could not have seen.

"It's a figure of speech," Romney said Thursday after media inquiries into the Republican presidential contender's statement during his recent religion speech that he watched his father, the late Gov. George Romney of Michigan, march with Martin Luther King Jr.

Romney, who was in high school at the time, later said he only heard of his father marching, and some historians have questioned whether his father, in fact, did march with King. The Romney campaign provided books and news articles it said supported his statement.

Romney said it was akin to him stating, "I saw my dad become president of American Motors." He told reporters in Iowa, "I wasn't there when he became president."

Romney similarly backtracked after telling a national television audience Sunday on NBC's "Meet the Press" that "I received the endorsement of the NRA" in 2002 while running for governor of Massachusetts.

The gun rights group did not endorse either candidate, and gave a higher issues rating to his Democratic opponent.

Romney said Monday, "It was, if you will, a support phone bank, which is not an official endorsement."

Battle for Iowa
The questions are especially sensitive for Romney, who is trying to rebound against rival Mike Huckabee in Iowa and maintain a lead in New Hampshire, the leadoff contests in the voting for presidential nominees.

Throughout his campaign, he has been dogged by allegations of flip-flopping on key issues, from abortion rights to gun control and gay rights.

"It's the fine-tuning that's created the problem. It's always that one extra step that causes him the trouble," said Tobe Berkovitz, a longtime Romney observer and the interim dean of Boston University's College of Communication. "You can't just say that African-Americans were accepted into the church and I was happy, you have to say you pulled over and you cried."

The latter was a reference to another statement Romney made on "Meet the Press," in which he tried to convey his emotion after learning in 1978 his Mormon church had given full privileges to blacks. Video

Romney recalled his exact location when he heard the news - the Fresh Pond traffic rotary in Cambridge - but he misspoke when he said he thought he was in law school at the time. In fact, he had graduated from Harvard Law School three years earlier.

"If this had been three months ago, it would have been more water off the back of the duck, but right now, everything is magnified not only for him but Rudy and Hillary and everybody else," said Berkovitz, mentioning fellow presidential contenders Rudy Giuliani and Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Democrat Al Gore faced similar questions during the 2000 campaign, when he falsely claimed to have accompanied a federal disaster relief official on a tour of a fire zone, and on previous occasions when he claimed more credit than many felt he warranted about the creation of the Internet, the Strategic Petroleum Reserve and the Love Canal toxic waste investigation.

'Gotcha journalism'
Romney is well aware of the power of words in politics. His father saw his own presidential campaign founder in 1968 amid questions about his statement that he was subjected to "a brainwashing" by U.S. generals during a visit to Vietnam.

The elder Romney switched from supporting the war to opposing it, despite the generals' efforts to maintain his backing, but in campaign discussions his observation morphed into the suggestion that he was mentally unfit for office.

Mitt Romney says that experience is why he detests "gotcha" journalism. Aides say it also explains why he blows by reporters except for scheduled news conferences, and why he is wary of a "YouTube moment" in which stray tape recorders or cell phone cameras capture him making an offhand remark.

"I try to be as accurate as I can be," he said Thursday.

Nonetheless, Romney faced snickers in April after his staff said he had been hunting on only two occasions despite his telling a New Hampshire voter, "I've been a hunter pretty much all my life." Romney later said he had hunted more than twice but only for "small varmints" and that he did not own a gun or have a hunting license.

This week, there were fresh examples of Romney treading a rhetorical line on what he says and doesn't say.

Speaking at St. Anselm College in Goffstown, N.H., he told an audience likely to have an aversion to its southern neighbors, "I came out of school and got a job in Boston. People always ask me, why'd you choose Boston? It's, like, pretty simple. That's where I got my first job."

The "school" Romney mentioned was Harvard, where the Michigan native attended both law and business school after graduating from Brigham Young University in Utah. Three of his five sons also attended Harvard Business School, but Romney is more likely to condemn Harvard or its fellow Ivy League institutions for inviting speakers from Iran than he is to note it was his alma mater.

During the same town hall meeting, Romney also cast himself as a reluctant politician, focusing instead on his 25-year business career and stint helping to resurrect the financially troubled 2002 Salt Lake City Winter Olympics.

"When I came home, some people in the Massachusetts Republican Party encouraged me to run for office and said, `We need somebody who can win and who can fix Massachusetts,'" Romney said.

Romney returned to Massachusetts from Utah on Sunday, March 17, 2002. He declared he was running for governor on Tuesday, March 19, just hours after his fellow Republican, acting Gov. Jane Swift, announced she was yielding to the Romney juggernaut.

"I'm in," he said roughly 48 hours after returning to Massachusetts. "The bumper stickers are printed, the Web site's going up. The papers are going in today."

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Yeah, we need another President like this.
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Old 12-22-07, 02:36 PM
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Egads, reminds me of Hillary saying she was named after Sir Edmond Hillary. These people decide what would sound good, then decide it happened to them. On the bright side, I have Romney very low on my list.
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Old 12-23-07, 09:32 AM
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I like Mitt Romney. But it seems like he's trying his hardest to lose. One fuckup after another. What a terrible campaign he's run.
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Old 12-26-07, 09:57 PM
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after learning in 1978 his Mormon church had given full privileges to blacks
These Mormons sound like a very progressive group. Do they have plans to allow women to vote too?
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Old 12-27-07, 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by SlartyBart
These Mormons sound like a very progressive group. Do they have plans to allow women to vote too?
Probably a poor example as they were the first.
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Old 12-27-07, 01:48 AM
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Huckabee had one where he said in debate that he was the only one on stage with a theology degree. The only problem was that he doesn't have a theology degree either. He dropped out of Seminary. Oops!
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Old 12-27-07, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by chrisih8u
I like Mitt Romney. But it seems like he's trying his hardest to lose. One fuckup after another. What a terrible campaign he's run.
Do you mind if I ask why you like Romney? See, the scope of Mitt's "prevarications" rises above the level of mere political conveniences (the MLK reference, or Hillary's absurd 1995 claim about Sir Edmund) -- it actually gets down to the heart of his being a "born-again conservative". When he was running for governor of Massachutes, he was about as left-wing as you can get in the GOP -- pro-life, pro-gun control, etc. Now that he's running in the primaries, he's suddenly the only "true conservative" in the field -- a great surprise to folks like Huckabee, Thompson, and Tancredo. Who's to say that if and when he does win the GOP nomination, he won't suddenly turn around and embrace his "moderate" tendencies once again in order to get elected???

In a similar vein, Hillary Clinton has gone to a great deal of effort to move further to the right in national politics, although now that the Democratic primaries are taking place, she's suddenly back on board with the progressive agenda. John McCain has run hot and cold with the fundamentalists and the extreme right-wing base. John Edwards did the see-saw thing in 2004, although I think his politics and his stump speeches are now seeing eye-to-eye. But how can you support a politician -- any politician -- if they're continually flip-flopping their positions???
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Old 12-27-07, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by NCMojo
Do you mind if I ask why you like Romney? See, the scope of Mitt's "prevarications" rises above the level of mere political conveniences (the MLK reference, or Hillary's absurd 1995 claim about Sir Edmund) -- it actually gets down to the heart of his being a "born-again conservative". When he was running for governor of Massachutes, he was about as left-wing as you can get in the GOP -- pro-life, pro-gun control, etc. Now that he's running in the primaries, he's suddenly the only "true conservative" in the field -- a great surprise to folks like Huckabee, Thompson, and Tancredo. Who's to say that if and when he does win the GOP nomination, he won't suddenly turn around and embrace his "moderate" tendencies once again in order to get elected???

In a similar vein, Hillary Clinton has gone to a great deal of effort to move further to the right in national politics, although now that the Democratic primaries are taking place, she's suddenly back on board with the progressive agenda. John McCain has run hot and cold with the fundamentalists and the extreme right-wing base. John Edwards did the see-saw thing in 2004, although I think his politics and his stump speeches are now seeing eye-to-eye. But how can you support a politician -- any politician -- if they're continually flip-flopping their positions???
I dont really count his "flip flop" on abortion. I don't think he was ever pro life. He was personally opposed to abortion, but said he wouldn't change any laws because he knew that it would be wildly unpopular. I respect that because that's probably what I'd do.

What I like about Romney (and I know it sounds corny) but he seems like a good guy who's trying to do the right thing. There isn't any sleaze like with the Clintons or the stubborness and stupidity of Bush.

I think he's going to be conservative and cut spending. He was against raising taxes and instead raised user fees of certain programs, which I liked. I think if was elected he would be conservative/moderate, which is what I personally want to see.
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Old 12-27-07, 08:27 AM
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Mitt's running the worst campaign I've ever seen. What a complete turnaround from 5 years ago.
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Old 12-27-07, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Rockmjd23
Mitt's running the worst campaign I've ever seen. What a complete turnaround from 5 years ago.
Oh, come on. That's a load of bull. I mean, have you seen Fred Thompson's campaign???
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Old 12-27-07, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by NCMojo
Oh, come on. That's a load of bull. I mean, have you seen Fred Thompson's campaign???
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Old 12-27-07, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by NCMojo
Oh, come on. That's a load of bull. I mean, have you seen Fred Thompson's campaign???

Yep. Hard to argue with this.

I heard someone mention something interesting a few weeks ago. How George Allen's Senate defeat last year really changed the dynamics of this race. Had Allen retained his seat, he was certainly going to run for President, and I think he would have been the likely front-runner because, except for being a Senator (he was also a governor), he was the stereotypical GOP nominee (Southern-stater, high name-recognition, hawk, social conservative, conservative enough on fiscal matters, etc). His biggest problem would have been that he was regarded as a Bush clone.

Now - had Allen been in this race, he would have occupied that solid social conservative area of the party, so that would have forced Romney to run a different style campaign (and it would have completely shut Huckabee out) - probably one focusing on his business experience more - and to run as the fiscal conservative. He also could have used the Giuliani argument - that he could do better in a general election than Allen. I think this would have been more suited for him. However, when Allen lost, that opened up the social conservative mantle, so Romney (and others) jockeyed for it. This brought the whole Mormonism into play.

Last edited by Red Dog; 12-27-07 at 10:24 AM.
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Old 12-27-07, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by NCMojo
Now that he's running in the primaries, he's suddenly the only "true conservative" in the field -- a great surprise to folks like Huckabee, Thompson, and Tancredo.
Please don't consider Huckabee a "true conservative" - EVER.

ktxbye!
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Old 12-27-07, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by mosquitobite
Please don't consider Huckabee a "true conservative" - EVER.

ktxbye!
Not sure why you wouldn't consider Huckabee a conservative, especially on moral or cultural grounds... I mean, the guy is an ordained Baptist minister after all. Is it more of a political or budgetary issue?
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Old 12-27-07, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by NCMojo
Not sure why you wouldn't consider Huckabee a conservative, especially on moral or cultural grounds... I mean, the guy is an ordained Baptist minister after all. Is it more of a political or budgetary issue?
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature...urce=whitelist

In the 1992 contest with Bumpers, Huckabee used campaign funds to pay himself as his own media consultant. Other payments went to the family babysitter.

In his successful 1994 run for lieutenant governor, he set up a nonprofit curtain known as Action America so he could give speeches for money without having to disclose the names of his benefactors. He failed to report that campaign travel payments were for the use of his own personal plane.

After he became governor in 1996, he raked in tens of thousands of dollars in gifts, including gifts from people he later appointed to prestigious state commissions.
more in the article
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Old 12-27-07, 11:04 AM
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I just think it is ironic that quotes had to put around the term true conservative.
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Old 12-27-07, 12:02 PM
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Well, everyone's got their own idea of what "true" conservatism means. To the neocons, Giuliani is the only true conservative. To the theocons, it's Huckabee. The CEOcons say it's Romney. In the end, conservatism is in the eye of the beholder.
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Old 12-27-07, 12:22 PM
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Don't forget the Constitutiocons - it's Paul.

Sounds like Transformers.
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Old 12-27-07, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Dog
Don't forget the Constitutiocons - it's Paul.

Sounds like Transformers.
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Old 12-27-07, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Dog
Don't forget the Constitutiocons - it's Paul.

Sounds like Transformers.
They are <i>all</i> "transformers". Look at what they were saying ten or fifteen years ago, compare with their latest pronouncements, and you will see the transformations.

Actually, the only person I can think of who has not changed his stance (pun intended) in the past 25 years is Senator Larry Craig, who has been saying <i>"I am not gay</i>" since 1982.
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Old 12-27-07, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by NCMojo
Oh, come on. That's a load of bull. I mean, have you seen Fred Thompson's campaign???
Yeah, I saw Hunt For Red October. And I loved it!
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Old 12-27-07, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
What's the Ron Paul Blimp have to do with Fred Thompson?
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Old 12-27-07, 05:21 PM
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Well, Romney does have this going for him:

<embed src="http://www.theonion.com/content/themes/common/assets/videoplayer/flvplayer.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowScriptAccess="always" wmode="transparent" width="400" height="355" flashvars="file=http://www.theonion.com/content/xml/70446/video&autostart=false&image=http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/BARFIGHT.jpg&bufferlength=3&embedded=true&title=Poll%3A%20Mitt%20Romney%20Is%20Candidate%20Most%20Vo ters%20Want%20To%20Get%20Into%20Bar%20Fight%20With"></embed><br/><a href="http://www.theonion.com/content/video/poll_mitt_romney_is_candidate?utm_source=embedded_video">Poll: Mitt Romney Is Candidate Most Voters Want To Get Into Bar Fight With</a>
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Old 12-27-07, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by marty888
They are <i>all</i> "transformers". Look at what they were saying ten or fifteen years ago, compare with their latest pronouncements, and you will see the transformations.

Actually, the only person I can think of who has not changed his stance (pun intended) in the past 25 years is Senator Larry Craig, who has been saying <i>"I am not gay</i>" since 1982.
Don't really want to argue this, but what's so bad about changing one's stance on some issues? Politicians are still people (it pains me to say so), and I can't find anything wrong with growing and changing your mind about things. I don't see why we should expect them to run on the same platforms or remain steadfast in their thoughts on important issues.

Honestly, I don't know much about this batch of nominees, but unless they display radical changes in their ideology, I don't think there's any reason to be suspicious. I think this is kind of a silly criticism (if it even is a criticism).
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Old 12-27-07, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Nausicaa
Don't really want to argue this, but what's so bad about changing one's stance on some issues? Politicians are still people (it pains me to say so), and I can't find anything wrong with growing and changing your mind about things. I don't see why we should expect them to run on the same platforms or remain steadfast in their thoughts on important issues.

Honestly, I don't know much about this batch of nominees, but unless they display radical changes in their ideology, I don't think there's any reason to be suspicious. I think this is kind of a silly criticism (if it even is a criticism).
Umm, that's sort of the point with Romney. He shifts more than a VW in rush hour traffic.
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