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Bush's Mortgage bailout plan...

Old 12-06-07, 06:54 PM
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Bush's Mortgage bailout plan...

I didn't see anything on this...Love to hear both sides perspective.

I like how Yahoo split reps and dems quickly to each side...

From http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071206/..._homeowners_dc

"It's not the government's problem. People got into this with the help of the banks and they overbought, most likely, and now we're seeing the bailout," said Gene Kaberline, 57, a Republican who has just moved to Iowa from California.

But Democrat Sue Repplinger, 66, who worked years ago in the real estate industry but is now retired, said the plan unveiled by President George W. Bush came too late for many borrowers whose homes have already been foreclosed.


*********************

I hate to admit it, but I'm on Gene's side. (Why help those out that over bought or bought too big)
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Old 12-06-07, 06:59 PM
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This reminds me of when Nixon responded to inflation with a price freeze and only made the economic problems of the 70s worse. I thought Republicans were the free-market believers. Sheesh!
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Old 12-06-07, 07:11 PM
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There are a number of Republicans who oppose the plan.

There are a number of Democrats who oppose the plan.

I noticed you failed the mention the wage freeze in your post. The price freeze didn't work, because it was not enforced. Employers were all too happy to enforce the wage freeze.
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Old 12-06-07, 07:57 PM
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Why didn't Bush's economic team see this coming and correct it? I agree with Gene as well. It's a little fucking late. And few will benefit from this.
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Old 12-06-07, 08:00 PM
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I don't know what to think of this. On one side, I hate the thought of people who bought houses they couldn't afford getting a bailout. On the other hand, I don't like the fact that the decisions of a couple of million dumbasses could screw up the economy and effect the entire country.

I also think that if I got into the pocketbook of those who claim that they can't pay their mortgages if their rates adjust, I would find that many of them can, if they would re-prioritize and ditch some of the stuff they don't need (cable, etc.).

Also, the lenders have a big part in this as well as their greed and willingness to give loans to people who didn't know WTF they were doing allowed this to happen.
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Old 12-06-07, 08:24 PM
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I'm don't post in the political forum much this interests me. On one hand they're bailing out home buyers who over bought. On the other hand though I really don't want to live in a neighborhood ravaged by foreclosures. I read an article a month or so ago about this town in Ohio(?) that has just been torn apart by foreclosures, it was a very depreasing article and it could be happening all over the country.
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Old 12-06-07, 08:34 PM
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Bush is trying to rewrite contracts after they were already signed. He's also trying to do what amounts to price controls. And he wants to bail out people who bought houses they couldn't afford. There are so many bad ideas about this plan.
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Old 12-06-07, 09:19 PM
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If the government bails them out, then by golly it had <b>better</B> be followed by serfdom.

Better yet,
Five years off your mortgage for one tour in Iraq?

Last edited by Th0r S1mpson; 12-06-07 at 09:22 PM.
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Old 12-06-07, 09:36 PM
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This will certainly teach people to make better decisions with their money. I remember when I touched a hot stove as a child and felt no pain. I learned a very valuable lesson that day, and honestly, I don't need all 10 fingers.

And I agree with <b>cdollaz</b> about priorities. I find that many people with financial troubles could ease their burdens on essentials by trimming some lifestyle luxuries. But what would the neighbors think if they drove a less flashy car?!? And why bother, if those of us who make good decisions have to constantly bail them out via the government?

das
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Old 12-06-07, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by grundle
Bush is trying to rewrite contracts after they were already signed. He's also trying to do what amounts to price controls. And he wants to bail out people who bought houses they couldn't afford. There are so many bad ideas about this plan.

I've been told the social contract trumps real contracts. Right, c-man?
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Old 12-06-07, 09:54 PM
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das

I've always been a big fan of personal responsibility. Signing on the dotted line of the loan is supposed to mean more than you just practicing your penmanship.

I also simply don't believe this would have the impact the administration is trying to say it will. How many people are they estimating will need bailing out? 1.2 million or something? In 2004 there were 122 million homeowners in the US. You can't tell me losing 1.2 million of those is going to throw this economy into a tailspin.

I think some people (like me) will snatch up these homes as they go into foreclosure and get them cheap from the bank and then rent them out.
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Old 12-06-07, 10:02 PM
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Another shitty plan from Bush, no surprise here

I have a friend that is going to lose his house come March. I still think this is a shitty plan. My friend is an idiot and needs to learn a lesson about budgets and tough life's lessons. The Bush plan will teach him that being stupid pays off in the end.

I am a responsible adult and make intelligent choices, where is my handout? No reward for being smart? WTF?
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Old 12-06-07, 10:14 PM
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It won't even fix the problem. They'll still default on their loans, they'll just do it later.

And of course, to pay for this, they'll probably just print more money and make inflation even worse.
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Old 12-06-07, 11:44 PM
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Well, if one were to do a bailout, this is probably the best way to do it. I still wouldn't support it, though. I thought people were crazy (and still are) to go for an ARM when rates were as low as they were. Hell, I wouldn't consider one until rates were around 9%, and even then I would likely decide not to buy unless the price was right.

It most definately seems wrong that people would get to keep a teaser rate of around 3% or something similar for 5 years though. If you do a bailout, why not let the bank recoup the money lost if/when you sell the property? That would at least be more fair.
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Old 12-07-07, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Red Dog
I've been told the social contract trumps real contracts. Right, c-man?
In many cases - yes!

If that wasn't the case, bankruptcy wouldn't be an alternative. They've signed on the dotted line.

Of course you probably don't support the right of individual bankruptcy. Now corprorate bankruptcy - that's probably a different matter to you.
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Old 12-07-07, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by 4KRG
I am a responsible adult and make intelligent choices, where is my handout? No reward for being smart? WTF?
Heh, we would be lucky if it was just no reward for being smart and living within our means. Unfortunately we are the ones who are going to be paying to get these people out of trouble.
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Old 12-07-07, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by classicman2
In many cases - yes!

If that wasn't the case, bankruptcy wouldn't be an alternative. They've signed on the dotted line.

Of course you probably don't support the right of individual bankruptcy. Now corprorate bankruptcy - that's probably a different matter to you.
Then why don't these homeowners simply declare bankrupcy?
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Old 12-07-07, 06:51 AM
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first: spelling correction: bankruptcy.

One reason is that the Repubs (when they were in control of congress) made it considerably more difficult to file Chapter 7 & changed Chapter 13. I will admit that too many Democrats (Joe Biden for instance) joined them in it. Paul Wellstone's death was tragedy in many ways. Had he still been alive, I don't believe bankrutpcy 'reform' would have occurred. He fought it tooth & nail for years.

btw: You noticed the 'reform' didn't affect Chapter 11. One wonders why?
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Old 12-07-07, 07:21 AM
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"In many cases."

Can I see your copy of the social contract, c-man? Unfortunately (or fortunately on your part), I don't think Geoff's server could accomodate it.
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Old 12-07-07, 07:38 AM
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I suggest you read a 'primer' on The Social Contract.

There are a number of them available.

----------------

Erin Burnett, International Superstar, says Wallstreet favors the president's plan.
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Old 12-07-07, 07:47 AM
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That's a first - c-man taking Wall Street's side on something.
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Old 12-07-07, 07:47 AM
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I'm a Democrat and I think this plan sucks. The government should just stay out of this and let the market correct itself. I can't explain my inconsistency on this issue, but I think it's because I've seen too many people pass up houses they could afford to get a crap mortgage for a house they couldn't afford, just so they could be flashy. Not really a scientific look at the problem, but whatever.
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Old 12-07-07, 07:49 AM
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The Mortgage Boondoggle
December 3, 2007

Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson indicated today that the U.S. government is hard at work putting together a program to help “struggling mortgage holders.” I have a question. Where the hell was Henry Paulson, his predecessors, and the rest of the supposed watchdogs in government when the mortgage lenders were granting loans that the borrowers were obviously going to be unable to pay when conditions changed? They were, I would suggest, sitting on their thumbs.

Mortgage lender after mortgage lender issued variable mortgages to people whose assets and incomes would cover the low payments required by the first year or two of the contract. However, those same borrowers could not have qualified for the payment amounts that would take hold one or a few years into the contract. Simply stated, the lenders were leading the borrowers on just to get the business, not to mention the closing costs and loan fees. They were all too aware that the vast majority of those borrowers were likely to lose their homes in a few years.

Now Paulson wants to bail out the mortgage holders. Wait just a moment. It was the lenders who were in error, and grievous error at that, willfully granting loans that they knew the borrowers could not pay, just to make a buck. The borrowers were not exactly being realistic about it, either. The politicians were looking the other way, thanks to millions contributed by the mortgage lenders and builders to those their campaigns. Any of those parties could, and should, be considered culpable.

I will tell you who is not at fault here. I am not at fault here. Neither are 99.6% of the rest of the people in our country. We did not do anything wrong. We did not intentionally make bad loans just so we could profit on the upfront costs. We did not sign papers for a loan that we knew we could not pay in two years. We did not look the other way while these ridiculous deals were being engineered and consummated.

Mr. Paulson should not be doing anything at the Treasury Department except sitting on his butt on the sidewalk out front, the result of having been flung out of the building for not doing his job. Also sitting out there should be all of those officials and functionaries responsible for oversight of the mortgage lending business. They should then be joined by all of the politicians that took all that “campaign” money.

Who should foot the bill here? Who made the money on these deals? Who should have known better? The mortgage lending companies should not be allowed to collect another dollar on any of these loans, period, starting today. Each of the people that signed one of those loans, on the theory that they were trusting the lenders and the government to know better than they, should be evaluated for a fixed mortgage based on the value of the property in today’s market.

If they can qualify for that mortgage, it should be issued, at a fair rate and with fair payments. If they cannot, they should be allowed to walk away without any penalty at all. Of the culpable, they are the least to blame. In cases where the current owner can not qualify, the properties should be sold at auction, with proceeds going into the General Fund. There should be no mercy shown to the corporations that offered these ridiculous loans or the government officials that failed to provide oversight for the industry.

I, for one, am damned tired of being asked to bail out people who made a bad or greedy deal. If the homeowners can qualify, great, they will remain homeowners. As for the mortgage lenders, they deserve no special consideration. They were motivated by pure greed. They got the money, which is what they wanted. Now let’s give them what they deserve: the bill for this mess they caused.
http://www.kansascurmudgeon.com/?p=118

Silly me for buying a house I could afford which allowed me to put some money down to get a 15 yr mortgage at a lower rate just in case property taxes would rise, which they have done -- and yet I can still afford my house. Silly me indeed!
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Old 12-07-07, 07:59 AM
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I think the plan is really intended to help those of us surrounded by foreclosures.
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Old 12-07-07, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Red Dog
That's a first - c-man taking Wall Street's side on something.
Even Wall Street gets it right some of the time - more times than some of our members, I will add.

As far as the social contract, I don't believe it any recommendations from me would do any good. Your favorite reading is probably Ayn Rand; therefore, books writtent by people whose elevator goes clear to the top wouldn't be of any interest to you.
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