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77 Police Officers Hurt in Paris Riots

Old 11-27-07, 02:45 PM
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77 Police Officers Hurt in Paris Riots

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/worl...rssnyt&emc=rss
November 27, 2007
77 Police Officers Hurt in Paris Riots
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 3:24 p.m. ET

VILLIERS-LE-BEL, France (AP) -- Police reinforcements streamed into the tough suburbs north of Paris on Tuesday after a second night of rioting by bands of youths who have burned cars and buildings and -- in an ominous turn -- shot at officers.

A senior police union official warned that ''urban guerrillas'' had joined the unrest, saying the violence was worse than during three weeks of rioting that raged around French cities in 2005, when firearms were rarely used. More than 80 officers were reported injured overnight.

The violence presented new President Nicolas Sarkozy with a stern test. And it showed that anger still smolders in France's poor neighborhoods, where many Arabs, blacks and other minorities live largely isolated from the rest of society.

The trigger was the deaths Sunday of two minority teens when their motorscooter collided with a police car in Villiers-le-Bel, a blue-collar town on Paris' northern edge.

Residents claimed the officers left the scene without helping the teenage boys. Authorities cast doubt on the claim, but said they were investigating.

Rioting and arson erupted Sunday night, with youths attacking a police station. The violence worsened Monday night as it spread from Villiers-le-Bel to other impoverished suburbs north of the French capital. Rioters burned a library, a nursery school and a car dealership and tried to set some buildings on fire by crashing burning cars into them.

More police moved in Tuesday trying to prevent a third night of rioting, as officials sought to keep the upheaval from spreading to other impoverished areas as happened two years ago.

Patrice Ribeiro of the Synergie police union said rioters this time included ''genuine urban guerrillas,'' saying the use of firearms -- hunting shotguns so far -- had added a dangerous dimension.

Police said 82 officers were injured Monday night, 10 of them by buckshot and pellets. Four were seriously wounded, the force said. Police unions said 30 officers were struck by buckshot.


One rioter with a shotgun ''was firing off two shots, reloading in a stairwell, coming back out -- boom, boom -- and firing again,'' said Gilles Wiart, No. 2 official in the SGP-FO police union.

Youths, many of them Arab and black children of immigrants, again appeared to be lashing out at police and other targets seen to represent a French establishment they feel has left them behind.

''I don't think it's an ethnic problem,'' Wiart said. ''Most of all it is youths who reject all state authority. They attack firefighters, everything that represents the state.''

Suspicion of the police runs high among people in the drab housing project where the two teenagers died in the crash. The boys were identified in French media only by their first names, Lakhami, 16, and Mouhsin, 15.

There have long been tensions between France's largely white police force and the ethnic minorities trapped in poor neighborhoods.

Despite decades of problems and heavy state investments to improve housing and create jobs, the depressed projects that ring Paris are a world apart from the tourist attractions of the capital. Police speak of no-go zones where they and firefighters fear to patrol.

''The problem of bad relations between the police and minorities is underestimated,'' said criminologist Sebastian Roche.

Sarkozy, speaking from China, appealed for calm and called a security meeting with his Cabinet ministers for Wednesday on his return home.

Sarkozy was interior minister, in charge of police, during the riots of 2005 and took a hard line against the violence. He angered many in housing projects when he called delinquents there ''scum.''

The rioting youths ''want Sarkozy -- they want him to come and explain'' what happened to the two teenage boys, said Linda Beddar, a 40-year-old mother of three in Villiers-le-Bel. Beddar woke Tuesday to find the library across from her house a burned-out shell.

The violence two years ago also started in the suburbs of northern Paris, when two teens were electrocuted in a power substation while hiding from police. The government is keen to keep the new violence from spreading.

''We will not let go. We will fight with all the force the nation is capable of,'' Prime Minister Francois Fillon told firefighters in Villiers-le-Bel.

Fillon spoke with a firefighter who was shot by rioters and handled the bullet that was extracted from the man's arm.

In Villiers-le-Bel, arsonists set fire to the municipal library and burned books littered its floor Tuesday. Shops and businesses were also attacked, and more than 70 vehicles were torched, authorities said.

Rioters even rammed burning cars into buildings, trying to set the structures on fire, authorities said. Police reported six arrests.

Several hundred youths organized in small groups led the rioting in Villiers-le-Bel, and incidents were also reported in five other towns north of Paris, the regional government reported.

It refused to give specific figures on injuries among the police, rioters or other civilians, or the numbers of cars and buildings set on fire, saying it feared that doing so would encourage youths to try to wound more officers and destroy more property.

------

Associated Press writers Angela Charlton in Villiers-le-Bel and John Leicester in Paris contributed to this report.
From what I remember, the last year's annual riots didn't mention police being shot.
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Old 11-27-07, 03:01 PM
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Man, they really want that 32 hour work week.
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Old 11-27-07, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
Man, they really want that 32 hour work week.
You should have put "work" in quotes. So, nothing about the riots and the strikes being related? (For those who don't know, France is currently on strike.)
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Old 11-27-07, 03:13 PM
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Shocking that the disgruntled poor will eventually rise up against the establishment. Never seen this before. Particularly not in France.
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Old 11-27-07, 03:15 PM
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Yay socialism!
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Old 11-27-07, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
You should have put "work" in quotes. So, nothing about the riots and the strikes being related? (For those who don't know, France is currently on strike.)
This link indicates that the strikes may be nearing an end. I do not know if something may have changed to prolong the strike in the four days since the article was posted though.

Last edited by wishbone; 11-27-07 at 03:19 PM.
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Old 11-27-07, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by NORML54601
Yay socialism!
Are there regular riots like this in Sweden? How about Norway? It seems to me it's something more specific to the French, or France.
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Old 11-27-07, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
Are there regular riots like this in Sweden? How about Norway? It seems to me it's something more specific to the French, or France.
Tout est particulier au sujet du français et les Français sont particuliers au sujet de tout.
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Old 11-27-07, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by wishbon3
This link indicates that the strikes may be nearing an end. I do not know if something may have changed to prolong the strike in the four days since the article was posted though.
I think it was postponed because it occured during a 5 day weekend.
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Old 11-27-07, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
I think it was postponed because it occured during a 5 day weekend.
Welcome to France, where every weekend is an extended Thanksgiving Break.
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Old 11-27-07, 04:59 PM
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Commentators are often quick to point out that "this isn't about Islam---these riots don't have a fundamentalist religious agenda." While that may be true ostensibly, I'm not sure it's a really relevant point. The real question, IMO, is "are there large percentages of the Muslim populations of Europe who prefer their traditional Islamic values to the cultural values of modern secular Europe?" And I think the answer is unequivocally 'yes'. The Muslim populations of Europe aren't fundamentalist? Fine. But neither are most of the Muslim populations in the Middle East. But it DOES NOT follow that, since they're not fundamentalist, that automatically means that they would willingly and easily adapt and integrate to liberal Western modernity. But it seems that most in the West, from George W. to the European leftists, can't wrap their heads around this concept.

And as I've bloviated about on this forum for years, if the moderate, democratic centrists prove unable to deal with this, you're going to see the return of REALLY fascist, racist European groups who will deal with the issue in their own way. And the moderates among both the Europeans and the Muslims will be relegated to irrelevance. I think that might not be too many years off, if one of these riots involves a bomb or something that kills a large number on either side in a really catastrophic incident.

Anyways, I think this piece from Daniel Pipes lays out a few possible scenarious, and it's not very pleasant:

Europe's Stark Options
by Daniel Pipes

Europe's long-term relations with its burgeoning Muslim minority, the continent's most critical issue, will follow one of three paths: harmonious integration, the expulsion of Muslims, or an Islamic takeover. Which of these scenarios will most likely play out?

Europe's future has vast importance not just for its residents. During a half-millennium, 1450-1950, this 7 percent of the world's landmass drove world history; its creativity and vigor invented modernity. The region may have already lost that critical position sixty years ago, but it remains vitally important in economic, political, and intellectual terms. Which direction it goes in, therefore, has huge implications for the rest of humanity, and especially for its daughter countries, such as the United States, which historically have looked to Europe as a source of ideas, people, and goods.

Here is an assessment about the likelihood of each scenario.

I. Muslims Rule

The late Oriana Fallaci observed that, with the passage of time, "Europe becomes more and more a province of Islam, a colony of Islam." The historian Bat Ye'or has dubbed this colony "Eurabia." Walter Laqueur predicts in his forthcoming Last Days of Europe that Europe as we know it is bound to change. Mark Steyn, in America Alone: The End of the World as We Know It, goes further and argues that much of the Western world "will not survive the twenty-first century, and much of it will effectively disappear within our lifetimes, including many if not most European countries." Three factors – faith, demography, and a sense of heritage – argue for Europe being Islamized.

Faith: An extreme secularism predominates in Europe, especially among its elites, to the point that believing Christians (such as George W. Bush) are seen as mentally unbalanced and unfit for public office. In 2005, Rocco Buttiglione, a distinguished Italian politician and Catholic believer, was denied a position as Italy's European Union commissioner because of his views on such issues as homosexuality. Entrenched secularism also means empty churches: in London, researchers estimate, more Muslims attend mosques on Friday than do Christians churches on Sunday, although the city is home to roughly 7 times more born-Christians than born-Muslims. As Christianity fades, Islam beckons; Prince Charles exemplifies the fascination of many Europeans with Islam. Many conversions could be in Europe's future, for as the saying is ascribed to G.K. Chesterton, "When men stop believing in God they don't believe in nothing; they believe in anything."

Europe's secularism shapes its discourse in ways quite unfamiliar to Americans. Hugh Fitzgerald, formerly vice president of JihadWatch.org, illustrates one dimension of this difference:

The most memorable utterances of American presidents have almost always included recognizable Biblical phrases. … This source of rhetorical strength was on display this past February [2003] when the Columbia shuttle blew up. Had it not been an American but a French shuttle that had blown up, and were Jacques Chirac having to give such a speech, he might well have used the fact that there were seven astronauts, and evoked an image of the Pleiades first named in pagan antiquity. The American President, at a solemn national ceremony that began and ended with Biblical Hebrew, did things differently. He took his text from Isaiah 40:26, which led to a seamless transition from mingled wonder and awe at the heavenly hosts brought forth by the Creator, to consolation for the earthly loss of the crew.

The buoyant faith of Muslims, with its attendant jihadi sensibility and Islamic supremacism, could not differ more from that of lapsed European Christians. This contrast leads many Muslims to see Europe as a continent ripe for conversion and domination. Outrageous supremacist claims result, such as the statement of Omar Bakri Mohammed, "I want Britain to become an Islamic state. I want to see the flag of Islam raised in 10 Downing Street." Or the prediction of a Belgium-based imam: "Soon we will take power in this country. Those who criticize us now, will regret it. They will have to serve us. Prepare, for the hour is near."[1]

Population: Demographic collapse also points to Europe being Islamized. The total fertility rate in Europe today averages about 1.4 per woman, whereas sustaining one's population requires just over two children per couple, or 2.1 children per woman. The existing rate is just two-thirds of what it needs to be; one-third of the requisite population is simply not being born.

To avoid a severe diminution of population, with all the woes that implies – and specifically, an absence of workers to fund generous pension plans – Europe needs immigrants – lots of them. That imported third of the population tends to be Muslim, in part because Muslims are close by – it's only thirteen kilometers from Morocco to Spain, only a couple of hundred to Italy from Albania or Libya; in part because colonial ties continue to bind South Asia to Britain or the Maghrib to France; and in part because of the violence, tyranny, and poverty so prevalent in the Muslim world today, which prompts wave after wave of emigration.

Likewise, the high fertility of Muslims complements the paucity of children among indigenous Christians. Although the Muslim fertility rate is falling, it remains significantly higher than that of Europe's indigenous population. No doubt, the high birth rates have something to do with the premodern circumstances in which many Muslim women of Europe find themselves. In Brussels, "Muhammad" has for some years been the most popular name given to infant boys, while Amsterdam and Rotterdam are on track to be, by about 2015, the first major European cities with majority Muslim populations. The French analyst Michel Gurfinkiel estimates an ethnic street war in France would find the children of indigènes and of immigrants in a roughly one-to-one ratio. Current predictions see a Muslim majority in Russia's army by 2015 and in the country as a whole by about 2050.

Sense of heritage: What often is depicted as Europe's political correctness reflects what I believe is a deeper phenomenon, namely, the alienation of many Europeans from their civilization, a sense that their historic culture is not worth fighting for or even saving. It's striking to note differences within Europe in this regard. Perhaps the country least prone to this alienation is France, where traditional nationalism still holds sway and the French take pride in their identity. Britain is the most alienated country, as symbolized by the plaintive government program, "ICONS - A Portrait of England," that lamely hopes to rekindle patriotism by connecting Britons to their "national treasures," such as Winnie-the-Pooh and the miniskirt.

This diffidence has had direct and adverse implications for Muslim immigrants, as Aatish Taseer explained in Prospect magazine.

Britishness is the most nominal aspect of identity to many young British Pakistanis. … If you denigrate your own culture you face the risk of your newer arrivals looking for one elsewhere. So far afield in this case, that for many second-generation British Pakistanis, the desert culture of the Arabs held more appeal than either British or subcontinental culture. Three times removed from a durable sense of identity, the energised extra-national worldview of radical Islam became one available identity for second-generation Pakistanis.

Immigrant Muslims widely disdain Western civilization, and especially its sexuality (pornography, divorce, homosexuality). Nowhere in Europe are Muslims being assimilated, rarely does intermarriage take place. Here is one colorful example, from Canada: The mother of the notorious Khadr brood, known as the country's first family of terrorism, returned to Canada from Afghanistan and Pakistan in April 2004 with one of her sons. Despite her seeking refuge in Canada, she publicly insisted just a month earlier that Al-Qaeda-sponsored training camps were the best place for her children. "Would you like me to raise my child in Canada to be, by the time he's 12 or 13 years old, to be on drugs or having some homosexual relationship? Is it better?"

(Ironically, in centuries past, as the historian Norman Daniel has documented, Christian Europeans looked down at Muslims with their multiple wives and harems as overly-sexualized, and therefore felt morally superior.)

To sum up: this first argument holds that Europe will be Islamized, quietly submitting to the dhimmi status or converting to Islam, because the yin of Europe and yang of Muslims fit so well: low and high religiosity, low and high fertility, low and high cultural confidence.[2] Europe is an open door through which Muslims are walking.

II. Muslims Rejected

Or will the door be shut in their face? American columnist Ralph Peters dismisses the first scenario: "Far from enjoying the prospect of taking over Europe by having babies, Europe's Muslims are living on borrowed time. … predictions of a Muslim takeover of Europe … ignore history and Europe's ineradicable viciousness." Instead, depicting Europe as the place "that perfected genocide and ethnic cleansing," he predicts its Muslims "will be lucky just to be deported," and not killed. Claire Berlinski, in Menace in Europe: Why the Continent's Crisis Is America's, Too, implicitly agrees, pointing to the "ancient conflicts and patterns … now shambling out of the mists of European history" which could well trigger violence.

This scenario has indigenous Europeans – who do still constitute 95 percent of the continent's population – waking up one day and asserting themselves. "Basta!" they will say, and reclaim their historic order. This is not so remote; a chafing among Europeans, less among elites than the masses, loudly protests changes already underway. Illustrations of that resentment include the anti-hijab legislation in France, irritation over the restrictions of national flags and Christian symbols, and the insistence on serving wine at state dinners. A movement spontaneously developed in several French cities in early 2006 to serve pork soup to the poor, thus intentionally excluding Muslims.

These are minor issues, to be sure, but insurgent anti-immigrant parties have already emerged in many countries and are beginning to demand not just effective control of borders but the expulsion of illegal immigrants. A nativist movement throughout Europe is forming largely unnoticed beneath our eyes. However meager its record so far, it has huge potential. Parties opposed to immigration and Islam generally have neo-fascist backgrounds but are growing more respectable over time, shedding their antisemitic origins and their dubious economic theories, focusing instead on the questions of faith, demography, and identity, and learning about Islam and Muslims. The British National Party and Belgium's Vlaamse Belang offer two examples of such a move toward respectability, which may one day be followed by electability. The presidential race in France in 2002 came down to a contest between Jacques Chirac and the neo-fascist Jean-Marie Le Pen.

Other parties have already tasted power. Jörg Haider and the Freiheitliche Partei Österreichs were briefly in office. The Lega Nord in Italy was for years part of the ruling coalition. They will likely grow stronger because their anti-Islamist and often anti-Islamic messages resonate, and mainstream parties will partially adopt their messages. (Denmark's Conservative Party offers a model; after 72 years in the wilderness, it returned to power in 2001 due basically to anger concerning immigration.) These parties will likely benefit when immigration to Europe surges uncontrollably to ever-higher levels, including perhaps a mass exodus from Africa, as many indications suggest will happen.

Once in power, nationalist parties will reject multiculturalism and try to re-establish traditional values and mores. One can only speculate about their means and about the Muslim reaction, but the French riots of late 2005 give a possible taste of what lies ahead. Peters dwells on the fascistic and violent aspects of some groups and expects an anti-Muslim backlash to take ominous forms. He even sketches a scenario in which "U.S. Navy ships are at anchor and U.S. Marines have gone ashore at Brest, Bremerhaven or Bari to guarantee the safe evacuation of Europe's Muslims."

For years, Muslims have worried about just such incarceration and brutalization, followed by expulsion or even massacres. Already in the late 1980s, the late Kalim Siddiqui, director of London's Muslim Institute, raised the specter of "Hitler-style gas chambers for Muslims." Shabbir Akhtar warned in his 1989 book, Be Careful With Muhammad that "the next time there are gas chambers in Europe, there is no doubt concerning who'll be inside them," meaning Muslims. A character in Hanif Kureishi's 1991 novel, The Buddha of Suburbia, prepares the guerilla war that he expects will follow after "the whites finally turned on the blacks and Asians and tried to force us into gas chambers."

But it is more likely that European efforts at reclamation will be initiated peaceably and legally, with Muslims – in keeping with recent patterns of intimidation and terrorism – being the ones to initiate violence. Multiple polls confirm that about 5 percent of British Muslims endorse the 7/7 bombings, suggesting a general readiness to resort to force.

However it happens, a European reassertion cannot be assumed to take place cooperatively.

III. Muslims Integrated

In the happiest scenario, autochthonous Europeans and Muslim immigrants find a modus vivendi and live together harmoniously. Perhaps the classic statement of this optimistic expectation was a 1991 study, La France, une chance pour l'Islam ("France, an Opportunity for Islam") by Jeanne-Hélène and Pierre Patrick Kaltenbach. "For the first time in history," they wrote, "Islam is offered the chance to waken in a democratic, rich, laic, and peaceable country." That hopefulness lives on. An Economist leader from mid-2006 asserts that "for the moment at least, the prospect of Eurabia looks like scaremongering." Also at that time, Jocelyne Cesari, associate professor of Islamic studies at the Harvard Divinity School, claimed a balance exists: just as "Islam is changing Europe," she said, "Europe is changing Islam." She finds that "Muslims in Europe do not want to change the nature of European states" and expects them to adapt themselves into the European context.

Such optimism, unfortunately, has little foundation. Europeans could yet rediscover their Christian faith, have more babies, and cherish their own heritage. They could encourage non-Muslim immigration or acculturate the Muslims already among them. But such changes are not now underway, nor are their prospects good. Instead, Muslims are cultivating grievances and ambitions at odds with their indigenous neighbors. Worryingly, each generation appears more alienated than its predecessor. Canadian novelist Hugh MacLennan dubbed his country's English-French split the "Two Solitudes"; one sees something similar, but far more pronounced, developing in Europe. Those polls of British Muslims for example, find that a majority of them perceive a conflict between their British and Muslim identities and want Islamic law instituted.

The possibility of Muslims accepting the confines of historic Europe and smoothly integrating within it can virtually be dismissed from consideration. Even Bassam Tibi, professor at the University of Göttingen, who has often warned that "Either Islam gets Europeanized, or Europe gets Islamized," has personally given up on the continent. Recently, he announced that he is leaving Germany after 44 years' residence there, to move to Cornell University in the United States.

Conclusion
As the American columnist Dennis Prager sums them up, "It is difficult to imagine any other future scenario for Western Europe than its becoming Islamicized or having a civil war." Indeed, these two deeply unattractive alternative paths appear to define Europe's choices, with powerful forces pulling in the contrary directions of Muslims taking over or Muslims rejected, Europe an extension of North Africa or in a state of quasi-civil war.

Which will it be? The decisive events that will resolve this question have yet to take place, so one cannot yet make the call. Decision-time is fast approaching, however. Within the next decade or so, today's flux will end, the Europe-Islam equation will harden, and the continent's future course should become apparent.

Correctly anticipating that course is the more difficult for being historically unprecedented. No large territory has ever shifted from one civilization to another by virtue of a collapsed population, faith, and identity; nor has a people risen on so grand a scale to reclaim its patrimony. The novelty and magnitude of Europe's predicament make it difficult to understand, tempting to overlook, and nearly impossible to predict. Europe marches us all into terra incognita.


Mr. Pipes (www.DanielPipes.org) is director of the Middle East Forum and visiting professor at Pepperdine University. This article is adapted from a talk for a Woodrow Wilson Center conference on "Euro-Islam: The Dynamics of Effective Integration."


http://www.danielpipes.org/article/4323
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Old 11-27-07, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
Are there regular riots like this in Sweden? How about Norway? It seems to me it's something more specific to the French, or France.
I love how the rioters are referred to as "youths", omitting the fact that nearly all are black Muslim (Algerian, in the case of the two "youths" killed in the accident) immigrants. Age has much less to do with this than a bad immigration policy. Of course this makes those who bring up this glaring omission racists and xenophobes. You can now go back to being puzzled about why "French youths" are acting this way.
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Old 11-27-07, 05:06 PM
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And definitely Sweden and Norway do have a Muslim youth "problem".
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Old 11-27-07, 05:14 PM
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Sweden:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/016082.php
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Old 11-27-07, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
Are there regular riots like this in Sweden? How about Norway? It seems to me it's something more specific to the French, or France.
Looks like there are.

Yay Socialism!
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Old 11-27-07, 08:33 PM
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Just wait until it happens in the US. Yay Democracy! Yay Politically Correctism!
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Old 11-28-07, 08:20 AM
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Sarkozy issues warning to rioters
Last Updated: Wednesday, 28 November 2007, 11:57 GMT

French President Nicolas Sarkozy has vowed to bring to justice rioters who shot at police in Paris in urban unrest that followed the death of two youths.


Mr Sarkozy, visiting policemen injured in the riots, said such shootings could not be tolerated.

He also met families of the teenagers killed in a collision with a police car and pledged to hold a judicial inquiry.

Mr Sarkozy then headed into crisis talks with key ministers to prevent the spread of three nights of rioting.

There was a decrease in violence on Tuesday night, but there were still arson attacks in some parts of Paris and in the southern city of Toulouse.

'Search for truth'

Mr Sarkozy touched down from a state visit to China on Wednesday morning and headed straight to a hospital in Eaubonne, northern Paris, to visit some of the 120 officers injured in the rioting.

Afterwards he said: "Opening fire at officials is completely unacceptable... [this] has a name - attempted murder... Those who take it into their hands to shoot at officials will find themselves in court.

"It is not something that we can tolerate, no matter how dramatic the deaths of these two youngsters on a motorbike may be."

Mr Sarkozy later met the families of the two teenagers, both of North African descent, and said he was opening a judicial inquiry into the deaths.

A lawyer for the families, Jean-Pierre Mignard, welcomed the move, saying it would allow relatives and their representatives "to participate actively in the search for the truth".

Mr Sarkozy then held emergency talks at the Elysee Palace with Prime Minister Francois Fillon, Interior Minister Michele Alliot-Marie and other senior members of the government.

Extra police were deployed to prevent further violence on Tuesday night.

Violence was down, but dozens of cars and several buildings were still set on fire in the worst-hit suburb, Villiers-le-Bel, in the north of the capital.

Petrol bombs were also thrown in Les Mureaux, north-west of Paris, and a flaming chair was thrown through the window of a school in Vitry-sur-Seine, south of the capital.

In Toulouse, about 20 cars were torched.

However, clashes with police were limited and only a few officers were hurt.

Mr Fillon said: "The situation is much calmer than the two previous nights but we can all feel that it remains fragile.

"The government will do all it can to ensure that order returns as soon as possible."

Initial findings

Relatives of the two teenagers have insisted that police rammed the motorcycle the boys were riding before leaving them to die on Sunday.


Families of the teenagers were told of a judicial inquiry

The initial findings of an internal police probe, which found that police were not to blame, sparked anger in Villiers-le-Bel.

Police say the motorcycle was going at top speed and was not registered for street use, while the two boys - who have been named only as Moushin, 15, and Larami, 16 - were not wearing helmets and had been ignoring traffic rules.

Police unions have said the rioting is more intense than during weeks of clashes in the French suburbs in 2005, because firearms are now more frequently used.

The 2005 unrest, also sparked by the deaths of two youths, spread from a nearby suburb of Paris to other cities and continued for three weeks, during which more than 10,000 cars were set ablaze and 300 buildings firebombed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7116758.stm

The rioting does not seem to be linked to recent strikes.
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Old 11-28-07, 09:57 AM
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Well France was named after the Francisca, the deadly throwing axe the Frankish barbarians used to use in battle against the Romans, so the fact that there's still violence in France makes perfect sense to me.
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Old 11-28-07, 10:13 AM
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You got a lot of Gaul buddy!
Map maker, Sebastian Munster, named Canada as Francisca and assumed the Bay of the North (Hudson Bay) extended down to the Carolinas based upon false information supplied by Verrazzano (1524).
http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dgarneau/french2.htm
The Europeans have a strange custom that, if you see a piece of land, then it is yours. This ownership belief is held by Portugal, Scotland, the Danish, Spanish, French and English.
I remember reading about this notion in a book called "Marvelous Possessions."
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Old 11-28-07, 10:13 AM
  #20  
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i thought it was because Franks somehow translated to Freemen?

i knew a french chick in the army one time and she said the proper term for this isn't riots or demonstrations but Manifestation
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Old 11-28-07, 11:08 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
Just wait until it happens in the US. Yay Democracy! Yay Politically Correctism!
I guess you weren't here during the '60s when for a few years the only question was which inner city(ies) would riot this summer?
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Old 11-28-07, 12:03 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by wishbon3
You got a lot of Gaul buddy! http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dgarneau/french2.htmI remember reading about this notion in a book called "Marvelous Possessions."
It's not a country if you don't have a flag!


I better get my European travels out of the way in the very near future.
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Old 11-28-07, 08:44 PM
  #23  
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Netherlands: Muslim Council "fears the worst"

http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/20...ars-worst.html

Abdelmajid Khairoun of the Dutch Muslim Council deplores the plans of Geert Wilders to make a film about the Koran. According to Khairoun, Wilders' film plans are not really news. The head of the PVV continues to provoke.

"We fear the worst if this becomes reality. Then on any given moment the last word will be up to the youth on the streets. And we can then not hold them back. Just look at France."

Khairoun also expects many negative reactions from abroad, compared with the affair of the satiric cartoons about the prophet Muhammad in Denmark, two years ago. "Other countries will not understand it. I'm afraid that many Dutch products will be boycotted."

"Wilders isn't only offending Muslims, but also the Netherlands as a whole. For that matter, I don't think that he'd read the Koran, just as the book of criminal law, because you're not allowed to discriminate."

Another umbrella organization the Contact Organ of Muslims and Government (Contactorgaan Moslims en Overheid, CMO) did not react to Wilder's plans. "It is not the first time that Wilders says something negative about the Koran, currently I will not say more," says president Driss el Boujoufi.

Source: Telegraaf (Dutch)

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Hmmm...this is really strange. It's odd that Mr. Khairoun, being an official spokesman for the Dutch Muslim Council, would be so ignorant and misinformed about Muslims in Europe. Somebody really needs to sit down with him and explain that the riots in France don't have anything to do with Islam, and his speculation that Muslim youths in the Netherlands would riot over an insult to Islam is just crazy-talk.....

But seriously, his thinly veiled threat is clear, and similar sentiments are being expressed by other Muslim 'spokesmen' in various countries: Europe can either silence its artists and intellectuals, and stop all criticism of Islam, or else it can expect wide-scale violence from the thousands of street thugs throughout the continent.
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Old 11-28-07, 09:32 PM
  #24  
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I wonder how the US is going to handle this kind of shit.

Yeah, probably just like France.
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Old 11-28-07, 10:05 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
I wonder how the US is going to handle this kind of shit.

Yeah, probably just like France.
The U.S. will also be handing out hefty compensation awards to the unjustly misunderstood and wronged rioters. Hey, it's the American thing to do.
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