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Gov't argues that it can read any, all emails without a warrant

Old 11-05-07, 12:02 PM
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Gov't argues that it can read any, all emails without a warrant

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Last edited by darkessenz; 02-24-19 at 10:09 PM.
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Old 11-05-07, 12:12 PM
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and it all started with that evil JFK
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Old 11-05-07, 12:35 PM
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Warrant or no warrant, the prudent citizen should know what types of communications can be intercepted electronically and assume that they are. Whether anything is allowed to be done to you about those communications is another matter.
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Old 11-05-07, 12:37 PM
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Old 11-05-07, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by X
Warrant or no warrant, the prudent citizen should know what types of communications can be intercepted electronically and assume that they are. Whether anything is allowed to be done to you about those communications is another matter.
Doesn't the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (ECPA) restrict the government from spying? Even on a separate note, I think it said that employers could monitor communications on site but not actually intercept them - meaning of intercept could be subjective though.
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Old 11-05-07, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Ranger
Doesn't the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (ECPA) restrict the government from spying? Even on a separate note, I think it said that employers could monitor communications on site but not actually intercept them - meaning of intercept could be subjective though.
Just think about how much unencrypted email can be sucked up and viewed just by collecting internet traffic, and the cell phone calls just by recording electronic signals. Ever hear of ECHELON?

Even a Democrat congressmen got himself in trouble by releasing his Republican opponents' cell phone call that was intercepted by "regular" citizens.

http://www.hklaw.com/Publications/Ot...ArticleID=4016

Then there's the allegation that Hillary was involved in the same type of thing during the '92 campaign...
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Old 11-05-07, 01:06 PM
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I don't write emails that need encryption.
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Old 11-05-07, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by X
Just think about how much unencrypted email can be sucked up and viewed just by collecting internet traffic, and the cell phone calls just by recording electronic signals.
Is that what you would want a judge to think about while considering whether or not the government should be permitted to monitor or intercept e-mails and phone calls?

What if the government didn't allow people to send e-mail with encryption that the government couldn't decipher themselves just to make their monitoring work easier?

I do need a working link.
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Old 11-05-07, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by darkessenz
Does it worry you how much the government has access to our communications? Powers like these are simply ripe for abuse, no matter which party is in charge.
I worry much less about the government using something in my emails for evil purposes than I do people not connected with the gov't. I also don't put anything in emails that is important. I call those people. And they are all in the US, and the gov't can't tap those for no reason.
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Old 11-05-07, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by darkessenz
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/04/4th-amendment_email_privacy/page3.html

The lengths to which the administration goes to undermine the 4th amendment and classical notions of privacy is shocking.

They have argued that they can read your letters, listen to your phone calls (provided they go outside the US), and read your email, all without judicial interference.

They have argued that citizens can be arrested without a warrant, and tried in secret with no traditional judicial proceedings. (not to mention the things that can be done to aliens).
BTW, link not working.
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Old 11-05-07, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by X
I don't write emails that need encryption.
Those who aren't breaking the law have nothing to fear from the government, right?
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Old 11-05-07, 03:10 PM
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The govt. has been using a program to look for key words in emails for at least 10-15 years.
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Old 11-05-07, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by VinVega
Those who aren't breaking the law have nothing to fear from the government, right?
Yeah, I really don't get that attitude. Whether or not you're doing anything "wrong" is immaterial to this discussion.
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Old 11-05-07, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
Yeah, I really don't get that attitude. Whether or not you're doing anything "wrong" is immaterial to this discussion.
In this case I don't know if that's entirely to the point. I've been using email for 20 years and I've never been confident that it was ever totally secure, from the government or anyone else.
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Old 11-05-07, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
In this case I don't know if that's entirely to the point. I've been using email for 20 years and I've never been confident that it was ever totally secure, from the government or anyone else.
Technically speaking, it's about as secure as a postcard.
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Old 11-05-07, 03:51 PM
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Technically speaking, the police could probably get through the deadbolt on your front door in about five minutes, but that doesn't mean it's right for them to do so.
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Old 11-05-07, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by JasonF
Technically speaking, the police could probably get through the deadbolt on your front door in about five minutes, but that doesn't mean it's right for them to do so.
OK, I'm not a lawyer and you are, so it's probably foolish to even enter into this, but doesn't the fact that I have an expectation that the police won't break down my door, while no similar expectation exists for email, make something of a difference?
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Old 11-05-07, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by X
I don't write emails that need encryption.
I would tend to encrypt all e-mails, regardless of whether they need it, so the ones that do need it don't draw undue attention.

Last edited by aintnosin; 11-05-07 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 11-05-07, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
Technically speaking, it's about as secure as a postcard.
That's essentially what I've been saying.
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Old 11-05-07, 04:31 PM
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I think it was hit on earlier. I don't have any real expectation of privacy in my emails. Probably a different view if I did have that expectation, though.
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Old 11-05-07, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
OK, I'm not a lawyer and you are, so it's probably foolish to even enter into this, but doesn't the fact that I have an expectation that the police won't break down my door, while no similar expectation exists for email, make something of a difference?
4th Amendment law isn't my thing, but I wouldn't be so quick to say that you (the generic you, not wendersfan specifically) don't have an expectation that the government won't read your e-mail. It seems to me that most people use e-mail in a way that presumes it's as private as a traditional letter or a telephone conversation.
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Old 11-05-07, 05:26 PM
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"Don't write when you can speak. Don't speak when you can nod. Don't nod when you can wink." -James Michael Curley

Pretty much anything I send out is written as if someone I didn't want to read it would read it.
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Old 11-05-07, 05:34 PM
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You use the internet, which was invented by Al Gore while he was working as a Senator, and you have an expection of privacy? It's HIS internet, people.
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Old 11-05-07, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by JasonF
4th Amendment law isn't my thing, but I wouldn't be so quick to say that you (the generic you, not wendersfan specifically) don't have an expectation that the government won't read your e-mail. It seems to me that most people use e-mail in a way that presumes it's as private as a traditional letter or a telephone conversation.
Exactly. Compare it with something like this here forum. Government officials could be reading this right now, and I wouldn't care if they were. Unless they were hacking into the servers to do so, in which case I assume Geoff would be a little ticked off.

While email is essentially sent "in the clear" (as is everything else over the internet, unless it's encrypted), you do still need to take an active step to read someone else's email.
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Old 11-05-07, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
OK, I'm not a lawyer and you are, so it's probably foolish to even enter into this, but doesn't the fact that I have an expectation that the police won't break down my door, while no similar expectation exists for email, make something of a difference?
I would certainly expect my emails are private from a government perspective. Why wouldn't you? I realize they can be easily intercepted and read, much like I realize a criminal could break into my house.
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