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Limbaugh sells letter from 41 Dems on Ebay for 2.1 million

Old 10-21-07, 11:36 PM
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Limbaugh sells letter from 41 Dems on Ebay for 2.1 million

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/20/wa...d02&ei=5087%0A

After Rush Limbaugh referred to Iraq war veterans critical of the war as “phony soldiers,” he received a letter of complaint signed by 41 Democratic senators. He decided to auction the letter, which he described as “this glittering jewel of colossal ignorance,” for charity, and he pledged to match the price, dollar for dollar.

On Thursday night, Mr. Limbaugh, the conservative radio talk show host, said he thought the letter would bring in as much as $1 million. He was wrong.

When the eBay auction closed yesterday afternoon, the winning bid was $2.1 million. It is the largest amount ever paid for an item sold on eBay to benefit a charity.

The money will go to the Marine Corps-Law Enforcement Foundation Inc., a nonprofit organization in New Jersey that provides scholarships and other assistance to families of marines and federal law enforcement officials who die or are wounded in the line of duty. Mr. Limbaugh is a director of the organization, which had total revenues of $5.2 million last year.

“It’s unbelievable,” said James K. Kallstrom, the retired head of the Federal Bureau of Investigation office in New York, who is chairman of the foundation.

Mr. Kallstrom said the charity would meet Monday to decide how to spend the money. “We might increase the size of the bonds we give these children,” he said, “and we’ll probably do a lot more for the wounded veterans. It’s almost unlimited what you can do for them.”

The letter was bought by the Eugene B. Casey Foundation, a $294 million foundation in Gaithersburg, Md., that has given money to a wide variety of organizations, including the Washington Opera and the Intrepid Fallen Heroes Fund. In a statement, the foundation said its purchase of the letter was intended to demonstrate its belief in freedom of speech and “to support Rush Limbaugh, his views and his continuing education of us.”

Mr. Limbaugh, who declined a request for an interview, had advertised the sale on his show and elsewhere. He said fans had written him with concerns that wealthy liberals like George Soros would drive the price of the letter to $20 million or more in hopes of bankrupting him.

“It’s just amazing,” Mr. Limbaugh told Sean Hannity and Alan Colmes of Fox News’ “Hannity & Colmes” on Thursday night, when the bidding stood at $851,000. “This is more fun than I’ve ever had in my life.”

He predicted that the sale’s success would anger one signer of the letter, the Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, whom Mr. Limbaugh calls Dingy Harry.

But in a statement on the floor of the Senate on Friday, Mr. Reid, a Nevada Democrat, praised the auction. “I strongly believe that when we can put our differences aside, even Harry Reid and Rush Limbaugh, we should do that and try to accomplish good things for the American people,” he said.

Dated Oct. 7, the letter read: “Although Americans of good will debate the merits of this war, we can all agree that those who serve with such great courage deserve our deepest respect and gratitude. That is why Rush Limbaugh’s recent characterization of troops who oppose the war as ‘phony soldiers’ is such an outrage.”

Mr. Limbaugh has said that he was referring only to one soldier, who was critical of the war and had served only 44 days in the Army, never seeing combat.

Marcus S. Owens, a lawyer who headed the Internal Revenue Service division that oversees charities and foundations, said the Casey foundation might incur taxes on its purchase because it would have difficulty demonstrating that buying the letter furthered a charitable purpose. “They’d have to establish the link between the transfer of money for that letter and promoting free speech,” Mr. Owens said, “and that’s going to be tough.”
Saw this in a paper when I went out to eat, but never heard anything about it on TV, etc. Pretty wild. Nice that the money went to a good cause, though.
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Old 10-22-07, 12:26 AM
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I heard about this from a local radio guy on the station that carries Limbaugh around here. Good for him for doing this. I hope this will make people on both sides of the aisle stop taking out-of-context or inartful phrased phrased snippets and trying to puff them up into substantive points.

Of course, it won't do that -- I guarantee the next time some liberal botches a joke in such a way that it looks like he's attacking the troops, all the rightwing "pundits" will be there with feigned outrage and some Republican will introduce a condemnatory resolution in the Congress. Likewise, if some conservative says something that could be read as an attack on the troops, the left will be 100% sure the speaker intended it that way, and we'll have to listen to their whining.

But a man can hope.
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Old 10-22-07, 12:31 AM
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No, I think this will stop all that, because the Philadelphia media is desirous of a black quarterback doing well.

Nothing about politics is about reality, it is about how we can use something to make people offended and outraged. Even if it takes 3 days to figure out how to do it.

Last edited by kvrdave; 10-22-07 at 12:38 AM.
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Old 10-22-07, 12:44 AM
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I recommend they don't try and take Limbaugh on again.. He has a much better approval rating then they do
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Old 10-22-07, 12:51 AM
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It is amusing that the Dems have said that the best thing to do is to quit listening to him or paying attention to him, when all that really does is make more people know about him. I have probably listened to him for a total of 2 hours in the past year, but am actually thinking about tuning in to see if he discusses any of this.

But I am pretty addicted to XM right now, so I doubt I will.
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Old 10-22-07, 02:07 AM
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The most audacious thing about this was that Harry Reid(called "Dingy Harry" by Limbaugh) actually took to the Senate floor on Fri. and tried to take credit for it.
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/dai...109.guest.html
"Madam President, earlier this month I came to the floor to discuss some comments made by Rush Limbaugh. Following my remarks, more than 40 of my Senate colleagues and I cosigned a letter to the chairman of Clear Channel, Mark May [sic--Mays], telling him we wanted him to confer with Limbaugh regarding the statements he made." Is that not audacious? The United States Senate getting hold of the CEO of a private corporation to confer with me over words that I had uttered. "I've since spoken to Mark May about this. Mark May, in fact, called me regarding this letter. This week, Rush Limbaugh put the original copy of that letter up for auction on eBay. Mr. President, we didn't have time, or we could have gotten every Senator to sign that letter." What is that? Yeah, if we only had time, we could have gotten everybody to sign. How come not one Republican signed it? They had a couple of days to do this. I tell you, that's an amazing statement. Had we had more time, well, was it not worth taking the time, if this was such an important issue? If you would have taken the time, Senator Reid, wouldn't a hundred signatures really have had an impact on Mark Mays, the CEO of Clear Channel, more than 41 and totally partisan signatures since it was all Democrats.

"He put the letter up for auction on eBay," continued Mr. Reid, "and I think very, very constructively, let the proceeds of that to go to the Marine Corps-Law Enforcement Foundation that provides scholarship assistance to Marines and federal law enforcement personnel whose parents fall in the line of duty. What could be a more worthwhile cause?" Rehabilitating Senator Reid is a worthwhile cause, which is I think what this is. "I think it's really good that this money on eBay is going to be raised for this purpose. When I spoke to Mark May, he and I thought this probably wouldn't make much..." So he's been involved in it now, huh? (laughing) He's now wormed his way into this! He's not matching. I don't think he's going to match, and he hasn't apologized for this, by the way.

"When I spoke to Mark May, he and I thought this probably wouldn't make much money, a letter, written by Democrat Senators, complaining about something. This morning, the bid is more than two million for this. We've watched it during the week. It keeps going up, and up, and up. There's only a little bit of time left on it, but it certainly is going to be more than two million. Never did we think that this letter would bring money of this nature," said Senator Reid. "And for the cause, Madam President, it's extremely good. Now everybody knows that Rush Limbaugh and I don't agree on everything in life. Maybe that's kind of an understatement. But, without qualification, Mark May, the owner of the network that has Rush Limbaugh, their auction is going to be something that raises money for a worthwhile cause. I don't know what we could do more important than helping to ensure that children of our fallen soldiers and police officers who have fallen in the line of duty have the opportunity for their children to have a good education."

Think of this. He's using the word "we". He has inserted himself into this, ladies and gentlemen! It's going so well, it's something nobody by his own admission ever imagined -- they want in on it! We've got the audio now. Let's just listen to it rather than me read it.

HARRY REID: Earlier this month, I came to the floor discussing comments made by Rush Limbaugh. Following my remarks, more than 40 of my Senate colleagues and I cosigned a letter to the chairman of Clear Channel, Mark May, telling him that we wanted him to -- to confer with Rush Limbaugh regarding the statements he made. I've since spoken to Mark May about this. Mark May, in fact, called me regarding this letter.

RUSH: It's Mays.

HARRY REID: This week, Rush Limbaugh put the original copy of that letter up for auction on eBay. Mr. President, we didn't have time or we could have gotten every Democratic Senator to sign that letter. But he put the letter up for auction on eBay. And I think very, very constructively, let the proceeds of that to go to the Marine Corps-Law Enforcement Foundation. What is the Marine Corps-Law Enforcement Foundation? It provides scholarship assistance to children of Marines and federal law enforcement personnel whose parent dies in the line of duty, as well as health care assistance for disabled children of fallen troops. What could be a more worthwhile cause? And I think it's really good that this money on eBay is going to be raised for this purpose. When I spoke to Mark May --

RUSH: Mays.

HARRY REID: -- I think that he and I thought this would probably not raise much money, a letter by Democratic Senators complaining about something. This morning, the bid is more than two million on this. We've watched it during the week. It keeps going up, and up, and up, and there's only a little bit of time left on it. But it's certainly going to be more than two million. Never did we think that this letter would bring money of this nature --

RUSH: Stop the tape here, stop the tape. Do you see what's happening here? This is a clever move, rather transparent, to totally take the credit for this. Had he not sent the letter -- "we" didn't think it would ever generate this kind of money; "we" think it's great to raise this kind of...; "we" think this -- he's hoping that this is the angle the Drive-Bys will cover. Harry Reid is taking credit for writing the letter that gets this money raised for the Marine Corps-Law Enforcement Foundation. Resume tape.


HARRY REID: -- the cause, Madam President, extremely good. Now, everyone knows that Rush Limbaugh and I don't agree on everything in life, and maybe that's kind of an understatement. But without qualification, Mark May, the owner of the network that has Rush Limbaugh, and Rush Limbaugh should know that this letter that they're auctioning is going to be something that raises money for a really worthwhile cause. I don't know what we could do more important than helping make sure that children of our fallen soldiers and police officers who have fallen in the line of duty have the opportunity for their children to have a good education. Think about this. More than $2 million, this is going to really help. And that's, again, an understatement. There's only a little bit of time left.

RUSH: Wait 'til you hear what's coming.

HARRY REID: -- so I would ask those that are wanting to do more, that they can go to the Harry Reid, search -- actually go on say "Harry Reid letter," this will come up on eBay. I encourage anyone interested in this with the means to do so to consider bidding on this letter and contributing to this worthwhile cause.

RUSH: Hang on here.

HARRY REID: I strongly believe that when we can put our differences aside, even Harry Reid and Rush Limbaugh, we should do that and try to accomplish good things for the American people.

RUSH: Okay. Put our differences aside? Has he apologized? He is trying to horn in and act like he's part of this whole thing, folks. This is unbelievable! And now he's out there soliciting contributions on eBay, and believe me, this is what he hopes, of all of the past two weeks, that the Drive-Bys pick up on. Well, I wasn't going to do this. I wasn't going to go back in time. But let's go back, Monday, October 1st, 17 days ago, on the very same Senate floor, Harry Reid said this.

HARRY REID: Last week, Rush Limbaugh went way over the line, way over the line. While I respect his right to say anything he likes, his unpatriotic comments I cannot ignore. During his show last Wednesday, Limbaugh was engaged in one of his typical rants. This one was unremarkable and indistinguishable from his usual drivel, which has been steadily losing listeners for years, until he crossed that line by calling our men and women in uniform who oppose the war in Iraq, and I quote, phony soldiers. This comment was so beyond the pale of decency that we can't leave it alone. And yet he followed it up with denials and an attack on Congressman Jack Murtha, who was a 37-year active member of the Marine Corps, a combat veteran.

RUSH: I wasn't going to go back and relive this because it's ancient history, and we've been moving forward. Senator Reid, you did not mention that I am matching whatever the final total is. That is "we." You were offered an invitation to come on this program and say to my face what we just replayed you saying, that I am unpatriotic, and all of the other smears and lies that you believed from Media Matters for America or whether you knew were smears and lies and just went ahead with it anyway. So now, all of a sudden, this is "we"? You and I have buried the hatchet? You haven't even apologized for this yet and now he wants credit for helping raise this money, as though he's been involved in it all along. It's Orwellian. It's surreal. It's alternate universe. It continues. Senator Reid, I asked you, I suggested that you and Senators in the Senate who could afford this match it. I haven't heard whether you want to match the final total. I pledged to do so from the get-go. By the way, one more time, it's Mays. It's Mark Mays. There's an "S" on the end of his name.

HARRY REID: Rush Limbaugh took it upon himself to attack the courage and character of those fighting and dying for him and for all of us. Rush Limbaugh got himself a deferment from serving when he was a young man. He never served in uniform. He never saw in person the extreme difficulty of maintaining peace in a foreign country engaged in a civil war. He never saw a person in combat. Yet he thinks that his opinion on the war is worth more than those who have been on the front lines. And what's worse, Limbaugh's show is broadcast on Armed Forces Radio, which means that thousands of troops overseas and veterans here at home were forced to hear this attack on their patriotism. Rush Limbaugh owes the men and women of our armed forces an apology.

RUSH: Right. And he wants to pretend now that he's all supportive of this and very happy about it, and that this is "we" and we've buried the hatchet. I still haven't been apologized to for any of this.


BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: This attempt by Harry Reid to take to the floor of the Senate at 12 noon Eastern Time today to personalize this and make it about himself, you just know the mainstream media, the Drive-Bys, will get on this story now and Reid will end up being very positively portrayed. He has quotes about how "we" never thought that the letter would generate this kind of money. "We" never thought...? "Mark May and I..." It's Mays! "Mark May and I talked about this, and Mark May and I..." Senator Reid, let me be clear about this one more time -- actually, as many times as it takes. It wasn't your letter that raised this money. It was your abuse of power that is responsible for raising this money. No other letter you have written would be... People wouldn't pay a dime for it, Senator! This one represents an abuse of power: a federal government official, a US senator, getting hold -- after besmirching me and smearing me by name personally from the Senate floor, gets hold -- of the CEO of my syndication partner and asks him to "confer" with me about something Senator Reid thought was said that was improper? Words? First Amendment? Free speech? That, sir, is an abuse of power. That is why your letter is historic, not because you signed it, not because 40 other people signed it, not because you wrote it. It is because of what that letter represents: a full-fledged, undeniable, 100% abuse of power, and that's how this letter will be remembered by historians forever.

BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: Translation for Harry Reid's speech on the Senate floor today: "You win, Rush."
Harry Reid's comment were on C-Span Fri. I couldn't believe the nerve of Reid. Does he think everyone's as braindead as the Nevadans who voted for him?
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Old 10-22-07, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by JasonF
I heard about this from a local radio guy on the station that carries Limbaugh around here. Good for him for doing this. I hope this will make people on both sides of the aisle stop taking out-of-context or inartful phrased phrased snippets and trying to puff them up into substantive points.

Of course, it won't do that -- I guarantee the next time some liberal botches a joke in such a way that it looks like he's attacking the troops, all the rightwing "pundits" will be there with feigned outrage and some Republican will introduce a condemnatory resolution in the Congress. Likewise, if some conservative says something that could be read as an attack on the troops, the left will be 100% sure the speaker intended it that way, and we'll have to listen to their whining.

But a man can hope.
It's impossible to take Rep. Stark's comment out of context:
Stark said Congress was going "to blow up innocent people if we could get enough kids to grow old enough for you to send to Iraq to get their heads blown off for the president's amusement."
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArti...77686552280225

That's a little different than calling former soldiers who lied and smeared the military "phony soldiers"

Oh and here's the link to a vid of Harry Reid trying to take credit for Limbaugh's jiu-jitsu.

http://www.breitbart.tv/html/6938.html
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Old 10-22-07, 07:54 AM
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I disagree with the 'amusement' comment of Stark.

I don't disagree with the tenor of his comments he made before the 'amusement' comment.
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Old 10-22-07, 11:24 AM
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And once again, Limbaugh reverts to douchebag, and once again bhk carries water for him. Senator Reid spoke to Mr. Mays about how much they thought the letter would bring at auction. Which pronoun would you suggest that the Senator use when discussing their conversation?
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Old 10-22-07, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by bhk
It's impossible to take Rep. Stark's comment out of context:
And yet that's exactly what you just did. Here's the full context of what Rep. Stark said:

I'm just amazed that they can't figure out -- the Republicans are worried that they can't pay for insuring an additional 10 million children [through SCHIP]. They sure don't care about finding $200 billion to fight the illegal war in Iraq ... Where are you going to get that money? Are you going to tell us lies like you're telling us today? Is that how you're going to fund the war? You don't have money to fund the war or children. But you're going to spend it to blow up innocent people if we can get enough kids to grow old enough for you to send to Iraq to get their heads blown off for the president's amusement.
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Old 10-22-07, 12:18 PM
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"They sure don't care about finding $200 billion to fight the illegal war in Iraq ... Where are you going to get that money?"

Ask the Dems when they vote to approve it next time around...
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Old 10-22-07, 12:46 PM
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I wish Rush would stop making the Democrats look like asses.
Enough already!!
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Old 10-23-07, 11:47 AM
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And yet that's exactly what you just did. Here's the full context of what Rep. Stark said:
The full context is even worse than the part I quoted. It accuses our soldiers of knowingly killing civilians as policy. Also, you might want to email Queen Nancy that she was wrong in rebuking Rep. Stark.
“While members of Congress are passionate about their views, what Congressman Stark said during the debate was inappropriate and distracted from the seriousness of the subject at hand—providing health care for America’s children,” Pelosi said."

But Limbaugh as usual said it best. He said clearly that Rep. Stark is insane and needs his own "liberal talk show."

Senator Reid spoke to Mr. Mays about how much they thought the letter would bring at auction. Which pronoun would you suggest that the Senator use when discussing their conversation?

Talk about carrying the water. Reid tries to make it sound like he intended the letter to be auctioned. Make no mistake, when he made is "we" speech one hour before the auction ended, he had no idea that the letter would be auctioned when he sent it. The letter was intended to silence Limbaugh by intimidating his broadcast syndicator. Look at the Imus example.
What probably happened is that some staffer told Reid about the auction and he tried the "we" speech to try to save some face. I thought the only people who believed that "we" speech crap were the Reid's kool-aid drinkers in Nevada. But I was wrong.
And Sen. Reid, the man's name is Mark Mays not May as you kept repeating over and over again.
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Old 10-23-07, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bhk
The full context is even worse than the part I quoted. It accuses our soldiers of knowingly killing civilians as policy. Also, you might want to email Queen Nancy that she was wrong in rebuking Rep. Stark.
“While members of Congress are passionate about their views, what Congressman Stark said during the debate was inappropriate and distracted from the seriousness of the subject at hand—providing health care for America’s children,” Pelosi said."

But Limbaugh as usual said it best. He said clearly that Rep. Stark is insane and needs his own "liberal talk show."
I don't agree with Rep. Stark's rhetoric or his view on the legality of the war in Iraq. And I think what he said was inappropriate and did distract from the SCHIP debate. Quite frankly, you should be getting down on your hands and knees and thanking God for Rep. Stark, because the American public disagrees with you 4 to 1 on the substance of SCHIP. But if you get them talking about Rep. Stark's intemperate remarks instead of health insurance for kids, then you've got a winning issue.

Anyway, my only point is that you pulled Rep. Stark's remarks out of the context of his outrage over the SCHIP veto.

I also don't see him saying anything about US policy being to kill civilians, but that's neither here nor there.


Talk about carrying the water. Reid tries to make it sound like he intended the letter to be auctioned. Make no mistake, when he made is "we" speech one hour before the auction ended, he had no idea that the letter would be auctioned when he sent it. The letter was intended to silence Limbaugh by intimidating his broadcast syndicator. Look at the Imus example.
What probably happened is that some staffer told Reid about the auction and he tried the "we" speech to try to save some face. I thought the only people who believed that "we" speech crap were the Reid's kool-aid drinkers in Nevada. But I was wrong.
And Sen. Reid, the man's name is Mark Mays not May as you kept repeating over and over again.
Obviously Senator Reid didn't send the letter with the intention that it be auctioned for charity. He sent it partly to try to embarass Limbaugh, and mostly to try to embarass those in Congress and elsewhere who had gotten so outraged over the Moveon.org ad. But to his credit, once he saw that Limbaugh was turning the negative into a positive and helping a good cause, he stopped fighting. He talked to Mark Mays about the auction; he praised Limbaugh's actions on the floor of the Senate. What more do you want from him?
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Old 10-23-07, 12:53 PM
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I think Reid handled it well, personally.
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Old 10-23-07, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
I think Reid handled it well, personally.
You must be kidding. He came out looking stupid and willing to waste time playing stupid partisan games (which really isn't news).
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Old 10-23-07, 01:12 PM
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Reid did not "stop fighting". Nowhere in there that I can see did he say "Hey, you know, the whole reason for the letter? We were wrong."
Ah. In fact even in his "bury the hatchet" speech, he's still chanting the same incorrect information: "Rush Limbaugh took it upon himself to attack the courage and character of those fighting and dying for him and for all of us. Rush Limbaugh got himself a deferment from serving when he was a young man. He never served in uniform. He never saw in person the extreme difficulty of maintaining peace in a foreign country engaged in a civil war. He never saw a person in combat. Yet he thinks that his opinion on the war is worth more than those who have been on the front lines."
Lines 2, 3, 4, may be totally factual (although the "got himself a deferment" is definitely loaded phrasing). If so, fine. Those first and fifth lines basically reiterate the lies that are engraved on the multimillion dollar letter, so Reid did not "stop fighting", he's just gotten sneakier about it. He sent a letter meant to "embarass" Rush and gets lot of publicity. It did get publicity, and actually did some good, thanks to Rush (who also donated 2.1 million of his own money), and Reid is trying to backpedal like he meant for it to blow up in his face.
While Reid does actually say it's for a good cause, this phrase sure implies he and the other signees are wanting credit for a fundraiser, rather than for an embarassing and incorrect letter.
"I don't know what we could do more important than helping to ensure that children of our fallen soldiers and police officers who have fallen in the line of duty have the opportunity for their children to have a good education."
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Old 10-23-07, 01:15 PM
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And, Limbaugh has matched to donation and has asked all of the 41 Senators that signed and can afford to do so match it. None have done so thus far.
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Old 10-23-07, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bhk
And, Limbaugh has matched to donation and has asked all of the 41 Senators that signed and can afford to do so match it. None have done so thus far.
It would be great if those who can afford it do match. I don't know what constitutes being able to afford a $2.1 million donation, but at the very least I would think Senators Kerry, Kohl, and Rockefeller could do so.
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Old 10-23-07, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by General Zod
You must be kidding. He came out looking stupid and willing to waste time playing stupid partisan games (which really isn't news).
I think that is as good as he could have come out given the situation. What else could he have done (other than not start the situation to begin with)? He would have looked worse if he acted angry, called more attention to it, etc.
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Old 10-23-07, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by JasonF
It would be great if those who can afford it do match. I don't know what constitutes being able to afford a $2.1 million donation, but at the very least I would think Senators Kerry, Kohl, and Rockefeller could do so.
You left out Lautenberg.
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Old 10-23-07, 02:26 PM
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And Feinstein and Clinton.
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Old 10-23-07, 02:50 PM
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That's because the most recent comprehensive net worth figures I could find are from 2003:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/...tors.finances/

Senator Lautenberg wasn't in yet and Senator Feinstein's net worth was "only" 26 million -- not chump change, to be sure, but I don't know if it's "fair" to demand someone donate 10% of their net worth.

Edit: Oops -- looks like Senator Lautenberg is on the list. I was thinking he replaced Senator Corzine in 2006, but he replaced Senator Torricelli in 2002. Anyway, the poor guy's net worth, as of 2003, was a mere $17 million. How does he afford to live?

Is Senator Clinton really that wealthy?

Last edited by JasonF; 10-23-07 at 03:17 PM.
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Old 10-23-07, 02:56 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by JasonF
It would be great if those who can afford it do match. I don't know what constitutes being able to afford a $2.1 million donation, but at the very least I would think Senators Kerry, Kohl, and Rockefeller could do so.
You mean Senator John Kerry's wife, right?

And Kennedy, we can't forget Kennedy.
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Old 10-23-07, 02:58 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by MartinBlank
You mean Senator John Kerry's wife, right?

And Kennedy, we can't forget Kennedy.
Kennedy is a pauper when compared to the three JasonF named.
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