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Does This Activity Violate the Establishment Clause of The Constitution?

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Does This Activity Violate the Establishment Clause of The Constitution?

Old 10-16-07, 09:06 AM
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Does This Activity Violate the Establishment Clause of The Constitution?

high school football players huddling on the sidelines before the start of a footaball game and having a prayer - coaches not involved

Apparently some folks believe it is.

What do you think?
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Old 10-16-07, 09:09 AM
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If it isn't mandated for the whole team by the school or coaches of course it doesn't violate anything. There is absolutely nothing wrong with voluntary prayer.
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Old 10-16-07, 09:09 AM
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depends if God wants them to win the game or not
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Old 10-16-07, 09:09 AM
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I'd say its a stretch.

The coaches should discourage it though. It could divide the team.
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Old 10-16-07, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by dick_grayson
depends if God wants them to win the game or not
I was watching the WSOP Final Table last week and it was quite funny to see two people get into a hand and both sides praying. Oh, I guess God wanted that dude to suck out on the river on you.
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Old 10-16-07, 09:12 AM
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No.
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Old 10-16-07, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by CRM114
The coaches should discourage it though. It could divide the team.
If you actively discourage it though aren't you forcing your view of religion upon the students? Isn't that what the establishment clause it about, to freely let people practice what they want to practice?
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Old 10-16-07, 09:12 AM
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I say no, but I know people who think it is. I have a friend who has a problem with voluntary prayer being allowed in schools. I think school stopping voluntary prayers would be very unconstitutional.
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Old 10-16-07, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by nemein
If you actively discourage it though aren't you forcing your view of religion upon the students? Isn't that what the establishment clause it about, to freely let people practice what they want to practice?
i think that's the free exercise clause
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Old 10-16-07, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by nemein
If you actively discourage it though aren't you forcing your view of religion upon the students? Isn't that what the establishment clause it about, to freely let people practice what they want to practice?
I can't believe it.

I'm in agreement with our esteemed moderator.

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Old 10-16-07, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by classicman2
high school football players huddling on the sidelines before the start of a footaball game and having a prayer - coaches not involved

Apparently some folks believe it is.
Who? Link?
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Old 10-16-07, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by nemein
If you actively discourage it though aren't you forcing your view of religion upon the students? Isn't that what the establishment clause it about, to freely let people practice what they want to practice?
They can do whatever they want outside of my practice. I wouldn't really care as long as religion wasn't used to segment the team.
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Old 10-16-07, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Venusian
i think that's the free exercise clause
Ok I see the distinction but I think the argument still applies. If you are actively dissuading people from exercising their practice of religion you are actively promoting the establishment of a non-religious society.
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Old 10-16-07, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by CRM114
They can do whatever they want outside of my practice.
So are you ones of those who believes freedom of religion means freedom from religion, or did you mean practice literally as in football practice?


I wouldn't really care as long as religion wasn't used to segment the team.
What if the team didn't care? What if those who wanted to say a prayer said a prayer and those who didn't continued warming up?
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Old 10-16-07, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by nemein
Ok I see the distinction but I think the argument still applies. If you are actively dissuading people from exercising their practice of religion you are actively promoting the establishment of a non-religious society.
That's great, but that's not what the establishment clause is about.
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Old 10-16-07, 09:21 AM
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I always thought it was so stupid that teams prayed or Grammy winners thanked God for their award or whatever. As if a God would reward them while smiting the poor, sick, victims of drunk drivers....etc.

Also, and this is probably way off topic, but why would God create an earth with all this and then expect us to spend all our time praying toward him? Wouldn't he want us to be happy and live our lives without having to "take a knee" every time something important happens?
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Old 10-16-07, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by nemein
What if the team didn't care? What if those who wanted to say a prayer said a prayer and those who didn't continued warming up?
It'd be fine with me.
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Old 10-16-07, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by dick_grayson
I always thought it was so stupid that teams prayed or Grammy winners thanked God for their award or whatever. As if a God would reward them while smiting the poor, sick, victims of drunk drivers....etc.

Also, and this is probably way off topic, but why would God create an earth with all this and then expect us to spend all our time praying toward him? Wouldn't he want us to be happy and live our lives without having to "take a knee" every time something important happens?
A vengeful god is a much more effective tool.
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Old 10-16-07, 09:24 AM
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No.

Is this happening in Muleshit, TX?
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Old 10-16-07, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
That's great, but that's not what the establishment clause is about.
As far as I know the establishment clause is about prohibiting the US from adopting a state religion. So no religious system (including the lack there of) should be given greater priority (for lack of a better word off hand) than another. Seems to fit to me, what did you have in mind?
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Old 10-16-07, 09:26 AM
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There have been 3-4 attempts in OK the last couple of years to get this activity stopped.

It just goes to show the ridiculous lengths that some have gone in interpretation of the EC.
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Old 10-16-07, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by nemein
As far as I know the establishment clause is about prohibiting the US from adopting a state religion. So no religious system (including the lack there of) should be given greater priority (for lack of a better word off hand) than another. Seems to fit to me, what did you have in mind?
Lack of religion is a religion?
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Old 10-16-07, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by nemein
As far as I know the establishment clause is about prohibiting the US from adopting a state religion. So no religious system (including the lack there of) should be given greater priority (for lack of a better word off hand) than another. Seems to fit to me, what did you have in mind?
It was certainly the purpose of the Framers of the Constitution to prohibit a national religon.

The several states weren't affected, because it didn't apply to the several states.
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Old 10-16-07, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by classicman2
There have been 3-4 attempts in OK the last couple of years to get this activity stopped.

It just goes to show the ridiculous lengths that some have gone in interpretation of the EC.
Maybe they should start worrying about football and less about religion given the dearth of titles down there.
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Old 10-16-07, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by dick_grayson
I always thought it was so stupid that teams prayed or Grammy winners thanked God for their award or whatever. As if a God would reward them while smiting the poor, sick, victims of drunk drivers....etc.

Also, and this is probably way off topic, but why would God create an earth with all this and then expect us to spend all our time praying toward him? Wouldn't he want us to be happy and live our lives without having to "take a knee" every time something important happens?
it isn't about God picking the person over the others, it is about humility...at least for a lot of people, for some it probably is about God picking them.

He doesn't expect us to spend all our time praying (at least I don't think so). I haven't heard anyone claim that but again I'm sure there are some that claim that.
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